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Has anyone ever invited their non-Jewish coworkers to a simcha? What did they think? I was at an Upsharim and my cousin had some non-Jewish co workers there. Anyone else have a similar story?
And?
As long as you explain to dress Tznius, what would be the problem?
Of course, having such a large Upsharon that you would invite like a wedding sounds like its own issue.
We’ve done it a few times, without any issues, and they all had a great time. A very lovely coworker/friend of mine (who happens to be black), came to a simcha and I was delighted to have the opportunity to dance with her!
We originally were going to have a mixed table to goishe coworkers, but not enough came to fill a separate table. We explained what the seating would be like, and they had no problems. Too bad non-frum Jews can’t be as accommodating.
What, pray tell, is the issue?
I’ve had non-Jews at just about every simcha that I ever made. No issues, no problems. If they have questions about the goings on, they’ll no doubt ask someone to explain it to them.
The Wolf
Yayin mevushal?
Yayin mevushal?
No, that’s a non-issue. It’s the wine that’s not mevushal that might be the issue.
As for me, all my affairs have been non-alcoholic so it wasn’t an issue. (Yeah, I know… we’re boring people.)
The Wolf
I think it’s disgusting!
there is a time and place for everything and i don’t thin k when a choson and kalla are about to start a yiddish home, and build a bais neman byisroel, there should be a mixed crowd.
i also think it strength’s the false rumors of our wealth, they can only wish for what we call a cheap wedding.
it doesn’t add any yirash shamaim, or ahavas yisroel, so why do it.
i don’t thin k when a choson and kalla are about to start a yiddish home, and build a bais neman byisroel, there should be a mixed crowd.
Then don’t invite any non-Jews to your wedding.
i also think it strength’s the false rumors of our wealth, they can only wish for what we call a cheap wedding.
Interesting notion. Hiding in your statement is the assumption that we pay for wedding we cannot afford. Perhaps that should change.
it doesn’t add any yirash shamaim, or ahavas yisroel, so why do it.
Maybe it adds to the simcha of the chosson and the kallah? I know that I was very happy to have everyone who was at my wedding — Jew and non-Jew alike.
The Wolf
Just curious, how did chesedname come upon that screen name, when all of his/her comments seem to indicate the opposite? Actually, he’s probably just trying to get a rise out of people.
Wealth? We’re the ones who make chasunas in converted factories for under $100 per person in most cases, while they’re doing the Plaza or other equally elaborate places at way more $ per couple. Just the cost of the alcohol alone is probably more then we spend on an entire simcha.
wolf
you write “Then don’t invite any non-Jews to your wedding.”
isn’t the point of posting here to voice OUR opinions? it doesn’t make much sense to say “Then don’t invite etc.”
as far as the cost of the wedding, your comment again doesn’t make much sense, this isn’t about what we can or can’t afford. or what we should be spending. the average goy that goes to a heimish wedding and sees the band, the hall, clothing, jewelry, etc… will come out with a certain notion, which isn’t necessary
“it adds simcha to the choson and kalla”
i don’t think the father inviting his friends or co-workers adds anything to the choson and kalla. we’re not talking about the babysitter that’s been with the family for 30 years.
you’re getting old, all your points on this one were way off, not sure if you just wanted to argue and didn’t have any good points, or you didn’t sleep well last night.
on a side note I’m sure you’re a great guy, but you should find a rav and get really close to him. most of your hashkafa is way off.
A Woman outside bklyn
oh my where do i start??
what does chesedname have to do with my comments? i do lots of chesed am i no longer entitled to an opinion?
if my opinion doesn’t agree with yours are they wrong?
which comment, did the woman that doesn’t fit in Brooklyn, disagree with?
As far as giving an illusion of wealth, let me set your mind at ease.
Do a quick google search on the cost of an Indian wedding (India the country). Do a quick search on the cost of an Arab wedding in the poorest Arab countries (their dowry includes an apartment).
In both cases, the cost of the wedding is phenominal in relation to their annual income! And in terms of pure dollars spent, the Indian weddings make ours look like Shotgun Weddings 🙂
I have had my non-jew co-workers attend my affairs, without a hitch.
Be aware though, that YOU may get invited to their affairs in return, so think about how you would handle that. (I did, and it was not an easy spot to get out of)
Inviting coworkers to an upsherin is something I find a bit odd- do you also invite your coworkers to your son’s 4th birthday party? Or to your 10 year old son’s haircut? Should I have invited my associates to my last haircut (what little I have left)? Hey, Rob, Dave, and Jim- let’s go to the barber shop for my haircut, then we’ll go to the Rabbi’s house for some honey covered books. Or is it only if I get a haircut on my birthday?
An upsherin is very different from a bris, bar mitzvah, or wedding. And in my experience, inviting your close coworkers or business associates to a bris, bar mitzvah, or wedding that you are making is almost expected (from their point of view- so darchei shalom), and is always an opportunity to make a kiddush hashem. You don’t have to, but I think it’s pretty understandable why people who do invite coworkers are doing so.
I don’t see whats wrong at all! I find that the non jewish guests that attend a family simcha are always respectful and very happy that they were invited! And most of the time they dress formal too. I think its a nice thing to do.
we pay $1,000’s less for weddings than they do.
Why mar a simcha with a nochri? Especially a bris! Are you going to go to their christening?
In fact, after they come to a wedding, are you going to go to a Christian or Muslim wedding? Or some religious milestone (i.e. baptism) they invite you to?
Why get into this mess? Its messy both ways.
Myfriend nailed it.
What do you say when invited to wedding, held in a swanky country club, on a Sunday, and they order you a sealed, airline style meal (so kashrus is assured)to the invitation? I can’t make it because….. ?
Sure, you could make an excuse once, twice, a second time, But after a while, they see thru it and you look anti-social.
Think that’s a sticky situation? Hows this: You get invited to a mixed marriage. Do you go, and in effect, give this union your seal of approval? OK, this may not women in such a bind. But I(to the goyish velt) look very much like a Rabbi. In fact, more so than the “Brooks Brothers” rabbi who just performed the ceremony.
How do I get out of that one? Best bet: leave work at work.
wolf
you write “Then don’t invite any non-Jews to your wedding.”
isn’t the point of posting here to voice OUR opinions? it doesn’t make much sense to say “Then don’t invite etc.”
Fair enough. You’re entitled to your opinion as much as I am entitled to mine.
as far as the cost of the wedding, your comment again doesn’t make much sense, this isn’t about what we can or can’t afford. or what we should be spending. the average goy that goes to a heimish wedding and sees the band, the hall, clothing, jewelry, etc… will come out with a certain notion, which isn’t necessary
Why do you assume that our weddings are any more or less fancy than non-Jewish weddings?
“it adds simcha to the choson and kalla”
i don’t think the father inviting his friends or co-workers adds anything to the choson and kalla. we’re not talking about the babysitter that’s been with the family for 30 years.
Who said anything about the father inviting friends? When Eeees and I got married, some of the non-Jews who attended were *our* friends, and yes, it did contribute greatly to our simcha.
you’re getting old,
I don’t see why my age is relevant.
all your points on this one were way off,
No they weren’t… they were quite to the point.
not sure if you just wanted to argue and didn’t have any good points, or you didn’t sleep well last night.
I slept quite well… thank you for your concern.
on a side note I’m sure you’re a great guy,
Oooooh… a backhanded compliment.
but you should find a rav and get really close to him. most of your hashkafa is way off.
Pray tell… in what ways are my hashkafos “way off.”
The Wolf
Why mar a simcha with a nochri?
Why do you feel that a nochri, by his very being there, mars the simcha?
The Wolf
I have always had non-Jewish friends (and some co-workers) at simchas. If a person is a good friend, then their religion is of little importance to me. In fact, at my daughter’s Bat Mitzvah, among the invited guests was a nun. She was thrilled to be invited. I still remember that she gave my daughter a crystal paperweight in the shape of a heart and the card (hand written) said ” a crystal heart for your crystal heart”.
Think that’s a sticky situation? Hows this: You get invited to a mixed marriage”
I had to deal with that when my husband’s ONLY niece married a goy. We did not go. it took a long time before the breach was healed because we “disrespected” them (their words). But we could not compromiseon this.
I see no problem with inviting a non-Jew to a wedding, especially if they are co-workers and others in the office are invited. Our non-Jewish guests dressed very tzniusdikly, and really enjoyed watching the proceedings. In fact, at one simcha at which I was a guest, they were the only ones who gave tzedaka to the man was coming around collecting during the chuppah (a practice which offends me greatly, btw, and I as a baalas simcha would far prefer to give tzedaka to someone in a nice amount and have him NOT bother my guests and disrupt a wedding).
I’ve invited non jewish coworkers to my family simchas (bar mitzvahs, so far, and chasunahs besras hashem at the appropriate time) and have attended their “simchas” as well. The feedback was that they enjoyed the food, had a great time by the dancing but were bored stiff during the speeches (they fit in more than they realized). One coworker understood I couldn’t come to the church for his wedding ceremony but was happy I attended the party at the restaurant (they even offered to bring in kosher food, but I declined the offer). Another was grateful I was at the funeral for her father. Was I embarrassed or uncomfortable they were at my simcha, no. Was I embarrassed to be the only yarmulka at a treif restaurant, no. Uncomfortable, a little, but it was 45 minutes and I got over it.
Well apashutayid, there you proved it. Going into that non-kosher restaurant of your non Jewish colleagues “simcha” was Maris Ayin.
Now we can understand one of the consequences.
chesedname- of course you must invite non jews to the simcha if they are your co workers. they probably enjoy themselves immensely because they will not be shy about asking why we do certain things. most people that are invited to the wedding or simcha could care less if they see them there.
Maras ayin? Please explain. (Not conceptually, I know what it means. Practically, how or what is tha maris ayin in this case).
walking into a restaurant isnt maras ayin.
if you work with many people some of whom arent jewish for a while it can be a greater chilul hashem not to invite them then the potential fallout.
apushatayid
not to knock you, but that’s exactly the problem with it.
i mean once we go this crazy route, what’s wrong with marring a goy if you don’t have kids with her?
what’s wrong with your son playing with john after school? they are the same age! and he’s such a nice boy.
it’s the small things like this, that destroys klal yisroel, we’re supposed to be elevated, different, and to our self as much as possible!!!!!!!! inviting them in, is the wrong way to go.
A Woman outside bklyn
are you waiting till you can squeeze into brooklyn, to say which posts you didn’t like?
I’ll forget the point by then.
I’m back (I do have a life, and don’t spend all my waking moments in the CR). But Chesedname, maybe I just didn’t care for the way you stated that “it’s disguisting” to invite non-Jews to our simchas. And as far as “reciprocating”, obviously going into a church or mosque is out of the question, but they’re usually very understanding. However, don’t ever try explaining to a non-frum coworker or relative that you can’t come to their deformed temple for their simchas.
apy, same reason you can’t walk into a McDonalds, you can’t go into a non-kosher restaurant and sit down at a table with non kosher food. What did you think Maris Ayin was all about?
I fail to see why it would be “disgusting” or any other type of problem to have non-Jews at a simchah. Non-Jews are welcome to come to synagogues and pray!
If we get asked to do something halachically impermissible, “I’m sorry, but I can’t.” is the beginning of a perfectly polite explanation of why not. (And BTW there is no prohibition of entering a mosque.)
i mean once we go this crazy route, what’s wrong with marring a goy if you don’t have kids with her?
C’mon… you’re comparing walking into a non-kosher restaurant with intermarriage? As long as you’re making ridiculous comparisons, why not go all the way and say “once you go this crazy route what’s wrong with blowing up the world?”
The Wolf
A Woman outside bklyn
I’m glad you found the words disgusting unacceptable, I’m sure asking how i picked the name chesedname, was a lot more acceptable. to quote you.
“Just curious, how did chesedname come upon that screen name, when all of his/her comments seem to indicate the opposite?”
phoo to the double standards
i was curious if any of the holy sefarim discussed this question, low and behold the TAZ does!
he holds unless it’s for urgent need, a yid should not eat with a goy or invite a goy over to him.
(a”c 512:6)
of course he was a fanatic and an extremist, but that’s what he says.
wolf
that’s what’s wrong with your hashkafa, walking into a treif restaurant is ASUR! and so is marring a goy.
this religion isn’t based or decided on your feelings or thoughts.
chesedname, I think you need to sit out the next few plays. clear your head.
that’s what’s wrong with your hashkafa, walking into a treif restaurant is ASUR! and so is marring a goy.
You completely missed my point.
One is an issur d’rabbanan and one is an issur d’oraissa (and a fairly severe one at that). You’re equating the two is completely laughable.
The Wolf
You’re equating the two is completely laughable
Yes, I realized I used “you’re” instead of “your.”
Nonetheless, your argument is so ludicrous that it’s the same as saying that we need to prevent jaywalkers because “one we go this crazy route, what’s wrong with murder?”
The Wolf
the TAZ says it shouldn’t be done, nothing needs to be added
Myfriend. Maris Ayin for who?
My original comment included a line which I then deleted that said I did what I did under the guidance of my Rav. My Rav knows that Taz too, and he still told me it was OK to attend this “simcha”. So, unless you are a posek, please don’t issue blanket psak based on “lo and behold, I found a Taz!”.
What’s the Taz have to do with it? Participating in a party in a treif restaurant is clearly maris eyin. We have seen on this board all sorts of crazy aveiros being justified by claims of anono rov’s okaying them.
I heard two non-Jews at a bar mitzvah comment on how much was spent. This bar mitzvah was not an over the top affair, by any means. The family of the boy is strapped for cash, and their biggest expenses were flying in a grandparent from out of state, buying a tallis and tefillin for their son and paying a caterer to provide a modest buffet. They didn’t hire a hall (it was held in shul), provide an open bar or host a live band. Still, these two non-Jews took pleasure in discussing the extravagance of the affair. Being guests simply reinforced their prejudices.
I love the non-kosher restaurant thing – my Rav holds its perfectly acceptable to walk into a non-kosher restaurant if you have a need. You can be ordering coffee, a soda or using the bathroom.
We have non-Jewish relatives and we always invite them. Many of their kids are Jewish. In fact, one of my cousins has since become observant and said we were a large part of that.
I love the non-kosher restaurant thing
You seem to love many non-kosher things.
We have non-Jewish relatives and we always invite them.
Why are you acknowledging your goyish “relatives”? And by inviting them to a non-kosher restaurant, nuch altz!
I invite all my non Jewish neighbors and co workers to all my simchois and it continues to be a major kiddush Hashem each time.
@ Chesed name: Take it down a notch. You probably do not have a non Jewish co worker, so you have no right to speak here. As far as chesed, change your name, because anyone who writes like you, has no chessed either.
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