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- This topic has 21 replies, 16 voices, and was last updated 13 years, 7 months ago by bygirl93.
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March 22, 2011 10:22 am at 10:22 am #595823BasYisroel94Participant
So, I’m not the greatest at reading in loshon hakoidesh. The pshat- I’m generally ok, but meforshim? Forget it! Sometimes even the so called, ‘simple’ Pirush Rashi stumps me.
Someone out there in the Coffee Room, (and a lotta “someones” would be appreciated even more…) please give me suggestions on how to ‘teach myself’ how to learn.
Can’t wait to hear your suggestions!
March 22, 2011 1:26 pm at 1:26 pm #752964eclipseMemberI’d be happy to help you,provided you are a BAS Yisroel,and not a BEN Yisroel?
March 22, 2011 2:27 pm at 2:27 pm #752965mewhoParticipantyou’re female. you dont need to learn how to learn. you need to learn how to cook and sew and do laundry.
you should also learn how to drive so that you dont have to depend on hubby or car service to take you shopping or visiting.
you should also learn how to navigate the internet so that you can shop on ilne as well.
now those are the things you need to learn. make a list and tackle them one by one
March 22, 2011 2:29 pm at 2:29 pm #752966tomim tihyeMemberYavne sem!!
March 22, 2011 4:18 pm at 4:18 pm #752967popa_bar_abbaParticipantmewho:
I was wondering who would be the one to say that.
Bas Yisroel: His point, while it may seem offensive, is not totally wrong.
If you don’t want to learn tanach and meforshim, there is really no reason why you need to. You can have a very spiritually fulfilling life with a close connection to Hashem, without ever opening a chumash.
So, if you want to learn how, then pursue it. But if you are finding it a burden (which is not implied in your post, I am just mentioning it), then you can forget the whole thing as soon as you graduate high school. Which should be in about a year, judging by your screen name.
March 22, 2011 4:26 pm at 4:26 pm #752968MDGParticipant“please give me suggestions on how to ‘teach myself’ how to learn.”
- Find a rebbitzen or someone who can teach you.
- Partners in Torah
- Artscroll has a set on Rashi on Chumash, which explains Rashi’s commentary
March 22, 2011 4:55 pm at 4:55 pm #752969hanibParticipantartscroll – the saperstein edition is very nice: if read footnotes, can really learn to understand what rashi’s question is and why he asks that. if really work at it and keep practicing, can get pretty good at it quite quickly.
March 22, 2011 5:16 pm at 5:16 pm #752970mytakeMemberBas Yisroel
Why don’t you just use artscroll?
March 22, 2011 5:17 pm at 5:17 pm #752971Derech HaMelechMemberWhen I was working on my kriyah I got a set of Yalkut Me’am Loez and this little green Hebrew-English dictionary and went through the whole set on chumash.
March 22, 2011 5:18 pm at 5:18 pm #752972mytakeMemberJust curious, why do you feel the need to understand what’s bothering Rashi on your own? It’s not like you’re a guy…
March 22, 2011 5:38 pm at 5:38 pm #752973smile66MemberI also have so much trouble with meforshim, and it’s so annoying. I never did well with them in high school and now I’d so much like to be able to open up a sefer in hebrew and learn a bit, because somehow it’s just more meaningful in lashon hakodesh. I have a mussar sefer in only hebrew and I’m trying to labor through it with an english-hebrew dictionary but it can get so slow with me looking up every other word that i almost feel like it isn’t even worth it. Though I marvel and feel good about myself when I finish a page or two, and I’m happy I’m trying it this way. But I hear basyisroel94 when she says she wants to learn how to read meforshim. While I’m sitting there flipping through the pages of the dictionary I WISH I would have worked my heart and soul out in high school memorizing vocab words and reading more and more and more mefarshim until I “got” it.
The thing is, with all these interlinear Rashi translations – those just help you understand that Rashi that you’re reading, but it doesn’t teach you HOW to “do” meforshim. I wonder, is it just something that some are good at and others are not and will never be? Or do we just have to work harder? And if so, how, exactly?
March 22, 2011 8:23 pm at 8:23 pm #752974cherrybimParticipantBasYisroel94, for learning the meaning of words and word groupings, try doing the week’s parsha using the Metzuda linear chumash. I think you will find it more useful than the Artscroll (which is wonderful).
March 23, 2011 1:07 am at 1:07 am #752975brotherofursParticipanti also was not that great at understanding mifarshim until my father helped me a little. But in high school i had a very hard chumash teacher who would read a miforash and would wait for us to call out the meanings of it. Even if noone knew it, she would sit there waiting or wometimes giving us tiny hints. I guess this way by the time we get out of high school we’ll know how to translate it ourselves as if we’re still in the class.
March 23, 2011 2:45 am at 2:45 am #752976bygirl93Memberme whoo- how would u like someone to say to you- ur a man- take out the garbage and get a job!!! women r allowed to learn- there is absolutely nothing wrong with it- and by the fact that shes asking for help means SHE WANTS to and is not going with the flow-
bssyisroel- first try with the english and once you start getting familair with the words try it without- and go back and forth until u start getting it- once you remember shorashim and dikduk ur pretty much good to go
March 23, 2011 3:13 am at 3:13 am #752977ItcheSrulikMemberYour trouble is in two parts, language barrier and the learning per se. For the language barrier get yourself a dictionary aimed at the Torah like Dr. Jastrow’s or Rav Hirsch’s Etymological Dictionary of the Hebrew Bible and a basic diqduq book. If you use those two as you learn you’ll find that you need them less and less as time goes on.
For the learning itself, get Rabbi Bonchek’s books on Rashi. He has one for each chumash, each focusing on a different aspect of learning Rashi. Once you work your way through one cycle with them (you don’t need to read every page) you’ll have enough grounding to learn Rashi, RaMBaN and probably Ibn Ezra on your own.
March 23, 2011 3:42 am at 3:42 am #752978hudiParticipantI like how this was put in the “bais medrash” section.
March 23, 2011 8:23 am at 8:23 am #752979BasYisroel94ParticipantThanks for your suggestions everyone. So, it seems as though my issue here doesnt make sense to some of you, and thats totally fine. Thanks to those who understand what I’m saying and those who gave suggestions. Now, here goes:
eclipse- oh great, I’m a BAS Yisroel, now what do you say?
PBA- Thing is, that I DO want to learn meforshim, I just find it so difficult!
MDG, Binahyeseira, mytake and all you who suggested artscroll- but artscroll just tells you the ‘answers’ so to speak. If I’d want to actually learn the loshon hakodesh, then what?
Derech Hamelech- sounds like a plan
mytake- like smile66 says, it feels much more accomplishing to do it inside
smile66- There’s someone out there who can relate with me!
“The thing is, with all these interlinear Rashi translations – those just help you understand that Rashi that you’re reading, but it doesn’t teach you HOW to “do” meforshim. I wonder, is it just something that some are good at and others are not and will never be? Or do we just have to work harder? And if so, how, exactly?” — I have this exact question, please someone answer
bygirl93- Thanks for stickin’ up for me, there 🙂 and I really like your suggestion- though, in that case, do you know a good way to learn dikduk?
ItcheSrulik- thanks, I will write those names down and try find them!
hudi- to tell you the truth, I had no clue what else to put it under 😉
March 23, 2011 2:32 pm at 2:32 pm #752980mewhoParticipantby and bas—for the record i am female and my post was a kibutz. i think the only one who got the joke was pba (tho i’m not sure)
i think females and males should learn as much as they can about almost anything and everything.
and DO learn how to drive, DO learn how to balance the checkbook. a woman should be self sufficient. I haev seen women whose husbands pass away and they have no idea how to pay a bill.
Good luck!
March 23, 2011 7:02 pm at 7:02 pm #752981hanibParticipantbas yisroel – i agree with bygirl93 – after understand it, practice it again and again, until can read it thoroughly, as if will be tested on it. then go to next one. eventually, you’ll get the flow of it and you’ll be more used to the vocabulary. nice idea is to hook up with someone who knows less than you, like a ba’alas teshuva and/or younger girl – prepare first and then do it with other person. it takes time, but if really want to, not as much time as you would think to become proficient.
and i think it’s wonderful that you’re working on reading meforshim!
March 26, 2011 11:07 pm at 11:07 pm #752982BasYisroel94ParticipantThanks everyone!
Yay, I’m so excited to sit down and start doing it.. Starting today iy”H! 😀
March 27, 2011 3:55 am at 3:55 am #752983mw13Participant“please give me suggestions on how to ‘teach myself’ how to learn.”
Practice, practice, practice. Then when you’re done, practice some more. I don’t think there are any real shortcuts.
March 27, 2011 8:40 pm at 8:40 pm #752984bygirl93Memberbas yisroe- i had the same exact problem- it usually develops over time but it really depends on ur teacher- my skewl is tracked in most hebrew subjects so i was in the lowest track and i skipped up two tracks- for a certain reason- and i was really behind the other girls in skills- an the teacher worked with me so i culd catch up- the key is starting small start with rashis- and the pesukim- reading the parsha and then when u feel u culd do that move on to ramban or some other miforshim- if ur struggling- just keep on going if u dont know a word skip it and get the jist of wat its saying- that shuld help u figure out wat that word means- and if u get ahead of urself- just backtrack and take it slow- and as for dikduk- my teacher says thats impt- but just for the record- i stink at it- rlly just stick to woorying about past tense or present or future- and not the rest- eventually u culd do that- hope this helps- it worked forme! 😉
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