Home › Forums › Tefilla / Davening › Inconsistency in Shemona Esrei
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June 22, 2011 1:22 am at 1:22 am #597552tro11Member
The first beracha of shemona esrei, indeed the entire shemona esrei is written in the first person. Except for “lemaan shemo beahava.” Anybody have any idea why?
June 22, 2011 2:02 am at 2:02 am #779238ItcheSrulikMembera) You mean second person.
b) ?????? ?????? ????? ???
c) Since the first three brachos are praise not requests, it makes perfect sense to be talking about God instead of to Him. The question is why do we say most of the praises in the second person instead of the third?
June 22, 2011 2:15 am at 2:15 am #779239popa_bar_abbaParticipantNo, it is all in third person. Except attah.
June 22, 2011 2:26 am at 2:26 am #779240rebbi1ParticipantI think the question can also be asked regarding the phrases of ?????? ?????? ????? ??? followed right away by ?? ????. Why the switch there?
June 22, 2011 2:29 am at 2:29 am #779241tro11MemberNo, it is all in third person. Except attah.
Well, actually it can be either. Regardless, both the opening and closing of the blessing are in the first person, as is the entire remainder of shemona esrei. The only part that is clearly in the third person is lemaan shemo.
June 22, 2011 2:35 am at 2:35 am #779242tro11MemberI think the question can also be asked regarding the phrases of ?????? ?????? ????? ??? followed right away by ?? ????. Why the switch there?
I’ll ask my question. You can ask your own question if you want.
June 22, 2011 3:01 am at 3:01 am #779243tro11MemberI’m kidding. Yes, that is the same question.
June 22, 2011 4:40 am at 4:40 am #779244haifagirlParticipantNo, it is all in third person. Except attah.
Well, actually it can be either. Regardless, both the opening and closing of the blessing are in the first person, as is the entire remainder of shemona esrei. The only part that is clearly in the third person is lemaan shemo.
First person? I don’t recall the word “ani” in their anywhere. Please point it out. (Or do you not know that first person is I, second person is you, third person is he?)
June 22, 2011 11:39 am at 11:39 am #779245☕ DaasYochid ☕Participanthaifagirl,
We can always count on you for grammatical accuracy.
BTW, it’s not just ???; as was pointed out, so is ?? ????. Also, we have ???? ??, we have ???? ????, and ????? ????? ?? (the OP did mention the entire ???”?). The ????? which are ???? ???? also are in second person (e.g. ???? ????).
Come to think of it, the phrase ???? ??? is interesting.
June 22, 2011 11:44 am at 11:44 am #779246tro11MemberFirst person? I don’t recall the word “ani” in their anywhere. Please point it out. (Or do you not know that first person is I, second person is you, third person is he?)
It’s not second person because G-d is not a person. I meant that it’s written in the first G-d.
June 22, 2011 1:50 pm at 1:50 pm #779247HaLeiViParticipantUmekayem Emunaso is also in third person. I think ItcheSrulik’s response is the reason. Speaking direct is only when we mean to speak directly, as in a request. I think you can find examples in your day to day life where, upon carrying on to someone about a certain good trait, you’ll end up dropping the direct addressing.
Regarding the end of the Bracha, all Brachos start out direct and end in third person. The reason for this that we don’t really know Hashem. As soon as we focus ourselves to Hashem we realize that we can never truly fathom His greatness.
The only exeption to this is the Birchas Hoda’ah in Shmona Esrei, Hatov Shimcha. It seems that through praising Hashem, there is a special strong bond, as it says, Yoshev Tehilos Yisroel.
June 22, 2011 2:24 pm at 2:24 pm #779248tro11MemberUmekayem Emunaso is also in third person. I think ItcheSrulik’s response is the reason. Speaking direct is only when we mean to speak directly, as in a request. I think you can find examples in your day to day life where, upon carrying on to someone about a certain good trait, you’ll end up dropping the direct addressing.
I don’t think I ever do that.
Regarding the end of the Bracha, all Brachos start out direct and end in third person. The reason for this that we don’t really know Hashem. As soon as we focus ourselves to Hashem we realize that we can never truly fathom His greatness.
Firstly, citation needed. Secondly, the endings are not in the third person.
June 22, 2011 4:48 pm at 4:48 pm #779249ravshalomParticipantI believe this question is based on a fundamental error. For example the sentence “You are the best teacher, who teaches most clearly, and whose lessons are always organized.” is written in the second person, even though the the verb “teaches” is clearly in the third person (you teach, he teaches), and even though “whose lessons” is also a third person phrase (not “your lessons”).
Similarly when we say “You are the most powerful…Who resucitates the dead… and Who keeps His promise…Who is like You…?” (translated somewhat freely) the sentance is in the second person even though it contains phrases like “Who keeps His promise” instead of “Who keep Your promise”. (Yes, I know that ?????? is not exactly translated as promise.)
In the first ???? also: “Blessed are You…Who brings a redeemer to their descendants for His Name’s sake.” Once you add that word “Who” the phrase following grammatically is correct using third-person terms.
June 22, 2011 5:08 pm at 5:08 pm #779250HaLeiViParticipantYes RavShalom, that is what I am referring to.
Tro11,
All Brachos end in third person. Shehakol Nihye Bidvaro, Shomer Amo Tisroel, Mekabetz Nidchei Amo… The Pshat is like RavShalom said, that it is bouncing off the first part. The reasom I gave is, I believe, from Rabbeinu Bachye in his Shulchan Shel Arba, usually printed together with his Kad Hakemach.
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