Home › Forums › Decaffeinated Coffee › In honor of Yom Kippur; By Popa
- This topic has 51 replies, 10 voices, and was last updated 11 years, 1 month ago by popa_bar_abba.
-
AuthorPosts
-
October 7, 2011 1:39 pm at 1:39 pm #599829popa_bar_abbaParticipant
In honor of Yom Kippur, let’s make fun of people who don’t keep the mitzvos. In this way we will emulate R’ Akiva ?’ ????? ??? ?????? ?????? ?????
I will start.
You know the women’s minyanim who want to lein, but they want to pretend they care about halacha, so they don’t say birchas hatorah in the morning so they can say it when they are “called up”.
So I decided I want to bring korbanos. But there is no beis hamikdash, and I’m not a kohen. So what I do, is that I make shevuos and nedarim, and basically create for myself all the halachos. Like I’ll take a sheep every day, and swear I must bring it with all the halachos of a tamid. I leave out the ones I can’t do, like I say I am allowed to be tamei. On shabbos, I have my goyish neighbor do it for me, since I can’t shecht.
Anyway, my problem is that this morning during pesukei d’zimrah, I was making my korban todah like I always do, and I forgot that we don’t bring a todah today.
But I already made it. And I said it would be piggul if I don’t eat it before the end of the zman. And it is too much to eat, and I make it so only I can eat it because I know other people think it’s a joke.
So can I eat it on yom kippur?
(This is me doing teshuva before yom kippur for the serious thread I made on tisha b’av.)
October 7, 2011 2:54 pm at 2:54 pm #974687ItcheSrulikMemberSince your neder is that is basically “all the halachos of a toda chutz m’makom, tuma, v’zar” that includes letting everyone else eat. Fire up the grill.
October 7, 2011 3:15 pm at 3:15 pm #974688popa_bar_abbaParticipantBut I build all sorts of things in. Like I don’t want to be caught in a machlokes, so I say that I have to do it one way of the machlokes specifically.
October 7, 2011 3:33 pm at 3:33 pm #974689charlie brownMemberPopa,
on yom kippur we have a din of malachim which is why we say boruch shem loud. If a malach pretends to eat, as the malachim who visited Avraham Avinu did, it probably doesn’t have a din of achila. Better eat it up today.
btw, why didn’t you reveal this custom of yours on the Chicago thread? It would have been much easier for them to look out for a guy who shechts a todah during pesukei d’zimra than to look for someone hanging out at Starbucks.
October 7, 2011 4:32 pm at 4:32 pm #974690yitayningwutParticipantRoftl. You people are nuts.
October 7, 2011 4:36 pm at 4:36 pm #974691squeakParticipantYou were masneh al mah shekasuv batorah. You know the rest.
Have a good fast 😉
October 7, 2011 5:07 pm at 5:07 pm #974692popa_bar_abbaParticipantYou were masneh al mah shekasuv batorah. You know the rest.
I didn’t make a tnai kaful, so that doesn’t count.
October 7, 2011 5:17 pm at 5:17 pm #974693squeakParticipantOy, then all your past nedarim and shevuos were not mikkayim the todah. You better start making proper tanayyim going forward.
October 7, 2011 5:20 pm at 5:20 pm #974694Sam2ParticipantWhere is that story is there anything that would be Battul because of Masneh Al Ma Shekasuv Batorah.
October 7, 2011 5:28 pm at 5:28 pm #974695popa_bar_abbaParticipantOy, then all your past nedarim and shevuos were not mikkayim the todah.
I said at the end, with tnai kaful, and tnai kodem l’maaseh, and just like bnai gad and reuvan, that if anything I said would make it not work, then that part of what I said shouldn’t count- as long as it wouldn’t result in me being oiver on any issurim. So it does work.
My goy “kohen” is getting real excited. He loves yom kippur. (on yontiff, I do it myself and I eat from each one. He only does the olah’s.)
October 7, 2011 5:35 pm at 5:35 pm #974696yungerman1ParticipantPBA- is this in honor of (Yom Haki..)..Purim?
October 7, 2011 5:37 pm at 5:37 pm #974697popa_bar_abbaParticipantPBA- is this in honor of (Yom Haki..)..Purim?
It’s also because I’m machmir to not say anything in vidui that I didn’t do. And I’m mesupak if I was yotzei ???? yet this year.
October 7, 2011 6:50 pm at 6:50 pm #974698Sam2ParticipantPBA: You were Yotzei before this. Although if that was really your intention then this would be an Aveirah Lishmah and not count.
October 7, 2011 7:03 pm at 7:03 pm #974699popa_bar_abbaParticipantPBA: You were Yotzei before this. Although if that was really your intention then this would be an Aveirah Lishmah and not count.
I thought I might have been, but I was mesupak. I’m very machmir, you know.
Also, I didn’t follow the aveira lishma thread, so I don’t know what you’re talking about.
October 7, 2011 7:39 pm at 7:39 pm #974700HaLeiViParticipantWhy can’t you just have the Goy be Makdish it as a real Korban, and then be Makriv it for your Kappara?
October 9, 2011 2:53 am at 2:53 am #974701squeakParticipantI’m machmir to not say anything in vidui that I didn’t do
Does that go for the al chaits too? I’m having this picture in my head of you running around to rabbonim being mezalzel them for the sake of your chumra.
October 9, 2011 3:05 am at 3:05 am #974702popa_bar_abbaParticipantI’m having this picture in my head of you running around to rabbonim being mezalzel them for the sake of your chumra.
Not to worry. I can do that right here in the CR.
October 9, 2011 12:56 pm at 12:56 pm #974703squeakParticipantYou know thats not the only.al chait…..
October 9, 2011 8:26 pm at 8:26 pm #974704popa_bar_abbaParticipantYou know thats not the only.al chait…..
Ok, I give up. So tell me how you do it.
October 9, 2011 8:56 pm at 8:56 pm #974705ItcheSrulikMemberHow do you manage to do “b’timhon levav” if you’re always doing everything on purpose?
What about neshech v’tarbis. It must be hard to get all the hiddurim in for someone who knows the halachos as well as you do.
October 9, 2011 9:06 pm at 9:06 pm #974706popa_bar_abbaParticipantHow do you manage to do “b’timhon levav” if you’re always doing everything on purpose?
This thread.
What about neshech v’tarbis.
I bite people.
October 9, 2011 9:51 pm at 9:51 pm #974707ItcheSrulikMemberAnd translate tarbis as rabies?
October 9, 2011 11:07 pm at 11:07 pm #974708HaLeiViParticipantMaybe if you bite where you already bit, that can’t be called Neshech, so that it Tarbis.
October 10, 2011 12:52 am at 12:52 am #974709squeakParticipantThe only one I have trouble with is b’phlillus
😉
February 23, 2012 4:24 pm at 4:24 pm #974710popa_bar_abbaParticipantSo I just read this thread again. This may be the funniest thread I have started in the CR.
February 23, 2012 5:48 pm at 5:48 pm #974711ToiParticipantExcept i dont think you can make piggul al tnay. Its the actual machshava that passuls, so even if you want a tnay, you still had the machshava. look in pesavchim samech gimmel aumd aleph in tosofos and in shu’t achiezer chelek beis siman 34 (?)
February 24, 2012 3:03 pm at 3:03 pm #974712ItcheSrulikMemberThere is no piggul on a bama anyway, see Rambam Hilchos maasei hakorbanos (perek alef I think, wherever he talks about bamos. I don’t chazer enough. So sue me.)
February 24, 2012 4:53 pm at 4:53 pm #974713popa_bar_abbaParticipantOf course it can’t be piggul-it isn’t even hekdesh. I just make a neder that it will be assur with dinei piggul if I don’t eat it within the zman that it would have if it was the korban I am trying to bring.
Please don’t make fun; this is serious business, and it gives me spiritual inspiration.
I also plan on doing it even when there is a beis hamikdash, because I am not a kohen, and I will still want to experience that spirituality. The point of the nedarim and shevuos is just so that I don’t break any actual halacha, and so that it has real halachic implications (I don’t want to just be doing a joke).
February 26, 2012 1:19 am at 1:19 am #974714ItcheSrulikMemberI think we pasken that ???? ???? ????? ?? ????? ?? ??? ???? which would mean that your bama is makdish, there is just no din of piggul and your funky nedarim are masneh al mah shekasuv b’torah.
February 26, 2012 11:43 am at 11:43 am #974715ToiParticipantwe paskin lo mihanee. by korban pesach that you shecht al hachometz- R’ Akiva eiger on the rambam and the shaar hameleh deal with the issue. A”S.
February 26, 2012 2:47 pm at 2:47 pm #974716popa_bar_abbaParticipant1. This is not a serious thread.
2. I don’t believe you are correct. If I never make it hekdesh at all, and only say btoras neder that it should have the same issurim as hekdesh, and say b’toras shvua that I should have the same obligations as hekdesh–I do not think it would be hekdesh, and I would not even be allowed to be makriv it in the azara since it is chullin.
February 26, 2012 9:36 pm at 9:36 pm #974717ToiParticipantpba- fine.
February 26, 2012 10:57 pm at 10:57 pm #974718ItcheSrulikMember1- Tough
2- Why should it be worse than nazir where if a person says “i will not cut my hair or drink wine but i am not a nazir and can become tamei” he is a nazir? (Rambam hilchos nezirus perek beis)
February 27, 2012 3:06 pm at 3:06 pm #974719HaLeiViParticipantThe power of a Neder is only to Assur you from Hana’a if you are Oiver on the T’nay. So, just don’t bring your Korban when you are not allowed to, and then Yir’eh Ad Sheyisto’av.
If you made a Shevua that you’ll be mock-Makriv it then Ein Shvua Chal Ashvua.
I just don’t understand how you get spiritual inspriration from being Mekayem your Nedarim and Shvuoas. After all, Tov Asher Lo Tidor. But if a Goy does it, he can bring a real Korban.
My only Shaala is if a Goy being Makriv a Korban in Chutz La’aretz for the Kappara of a Yid, does it help? What if it is a Mum that is Kosher for them and not for us? What if it is a bird other than Tor or Bnei Yona?
February 27, 2012 10:28 pm at 10:28 pm #974720ToiParticipantHalevi- a goy, when bringing a korbanm on behalf of a yid, is not considered the mayvee of the korban, which means either its for him or he gives it to the yid.
itch- please quote which perek and halachah.
February 28, 2012 12:28 am at 12:28 am #974721popa_bar_abbaParticipant2- Why should it be worse than nazir where if a person says “i will not cut my hair or drink wine but i am not a nazir and can become tamei” he is a nazir? (Rambam hilchos nezirus perek beis)
I assume you are referring to halachos 3 and 4. Those are same case, and are talking about someone who sees a nazir and says he will have the same status as the nazir.
I don’t see why you think that means that if someone says “I am not going to be a nazir, but I will have the same issurim as a nazir has, b’neder; and I am also making a shevua that I will not cut my hair; and I am also making a shevua to sacrifice the animals a nazir has to sacrifice- but in my backyard…” that he is a nazir. I don’t see that the mishna is suggesting any sort of merger doctrine like that; I see a presumption that the guy is trying to become a nazir, like he said.
February 28, 2012 12:55 am at 12:55 am #974722HaLeiViParticipantThe only really problem you might have is that a Shechita that appears to belong to a sacrifice is Assur. That’s why we don’t Shecht on a roof or a hole.
February 28, 2012 3:06 am at 3:06 am #974723ItcheSrulikMemberToi: Sorry, I don’t look things up before I post especially when the thread isn’t serious anyway.
Popa: I was talking about halacha 9:
????? ????? ???? ?? ??????? ????, ?? ?? ?????? ????, ?? ????? ???? ?? ??????, ?? ????? ???? ?? ?????? ????–??? ?? ???? ????, ??? ?????? ?????? ????: ?? ?? ?? ??? ??? ????? ?????, ??? ???? ?? ????, ????? ???? ???? ???? ???? ?? ?????, ??? ?? ???? ????. [?] ??? ????? ????? ???? ?? ????????, ?? ?? ??????, ?????? ???–??? ?? ???? ???, ????? ????
(pasted from mechon mamre. The breaks between halachos are according to the kisvei yad, not the standard vilna edition so you might have a hard time finding it.)
February 28, 2012 3:20 am at 3:20 am #974724popa_bar_abbaParticipantThat is a good problem. Lemme think about that.
February 28, 2012 3:42 am at 3:42 am #974725popa_bar_abbaParticipantItche: That is because he wanted to be assur from grapes m’din nazir. If he would have just said “Grapes are assur to me b’toras neder, in the same way that nezirim cannot eat them” he would not be a nazir.
February 28, 2012 4:59 am at 4:59 am #974726HaLeiViParticipantNot only can you make such a Neder but it is actually the prime Neder, since you are Tofes Bidavar Hanadur.
February 28, 2012 5:03 am at 5:03 am #974727popa_bar_abbaParticipantHaleivi: Assuming you are responding to my last post- you are correct, it would be a neder. But it would not be nezirus.
February 28, 2012 6:01 am at 6:01 am #974728HaLeiViParticipantI wasn’t responding to it, I was adding to it. Every Neder has to be based on a Davar Hanadur. If you only say it is Assur to you we assume you meant, like a Korban, and it is Chal. In your example we don’t have to assume anything. It is the original and perfect Neder.
February 28, 2012 12:32 pm at 12:32 pm #974729Shticky GuyParticipantReal vnahafoch hu! Jesting before yom kippur and now serious halachic debate before purim! But its a great thread.
I especially loved ItcheSrulik’s “There is no piggul on a bama anyway… I dont chazer enough”… ☺
February 28, 2012 1:04 pm at 1:04 pm #974730ToiParticipantItch- big mistake. the gemara in nazir there is mifurash that the pshat why this is a kabalas nizerus is from a gzeiras hakasuv. a’s.
February 28, 2012 1:35 pm at 1:35 pm #974731ItcheSrulikMemberpopa: No he isn’t. The word nazir means “I am warned off” as we see later in the same halacha where the guy “nazirs” himself from dried figs. If he said “hareini nazir lchartzanim bilvad” you would have a point. (Not my own diyyuk. Comes from a rov who learns in MTJ).
HaLeivi: We don’t shecht on a roof (with exceptions) because things that look like idolatrous sacrifices become assur. This isn’t idolatrous, though it probably is sacrilegious 😛
February 28, 2012 3:44 pm at 3:44 pm #974732popa_bar_abbaParticipantI’m not sure what you are responding to anymore, but of this I am sure. The gemara is talking about a case where it wanted to be assur b’toras nezirus, and that is why he becomes a nazir. There is no other way to become a nazir except to want to accept issurim b’toras nazir.
Besides, we are talking about hekdesh here, not nezirus. When someone is matfis b’hekdesh, it doesn’t become hekdesh- it is a regular neder.
February 28, 2012 5:01 pm at 5:01 pm #974733ItcheSrulikMemberpopa: daf please? I never learned nazir, I only have this from Rambam. I was responding to your statement that “If he would have just said “Grapes are assur to me b’toras neder, in the same way that nezirim cannot eat them” he would not be a nazir. “
shticky guy: I didn’t even notice that. 🙂
February 28, 2012 7:09 pm at 7:09 pm #974734HaLeiViParticipantHe’s talking about the Mishna on 3b.
What looks more like a sacrifice than a sacrifice? And ir sure looks like it is for Avoda Zara, especially since he is expressly saying that he is not being Makriv it to Hashem. To whom or for what are you doing Zrika, Hanafa and Haktara?
It can be Baal Tashchis too, in the case of the Ola look-alike. In the Shlamim you wouldn’t be eating those parts, anyhow.
February 28, 2012 9:26 pm at 9:26 pm #974735ToiParticipantThe Gemara gimmel amud beiz is mifurash that you can make a kabalas nizeerus by using the lashon of nazir from one of the minim which are assur to a nazir.
-
AuthorPosts
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.