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Anonymous,
COEQUAL does not mean that you can commit impeachable offenses and then tie up Congress in the courts forever.That is the Trump game plan and the democrats saw right through it and beat him at his own game.If he has nothing to hide and everything he did was completely proper , they all should have testified
The answer is that there is so much more that he is hiding and this is just the tip of the iceberg.“US” Are you implying that because he used the word US, he wasn’t the one that was benefiting from the investigation, or even as little as a declaration of an investigation?
Democrats do not care about Hunter Biden. He is not running for anything. The issue is the former VP of the USA who is running currently for the Presidency.
It is bizarre that the Republicans believe that the President cares so much about corruption that he mentions an investigation into Hunter Biden in a phone call with the Ukraine President. The overwhelming evidence is that POTUS doesn’t give a hoot about dealing with corrupt countries. He deals with SA and Jamal Khashoggi, China and the killing of tens of HK during the protests this year, China and detention camps for Uyghur;Muslims, and Turkey and killing of Kurdish allies.I don’t watch MSNBC and if you really care about the process , I assume you are going to be here castigating the Republicans in the senate. Especially the ones like MoscowMitch who already announced that they will coordinate with trump.
Bottom line is the if the shoe was on the other foot and a Democratic president sent his private attorney and used the Attorney General of the USA and canned the foreign country’s Ambassador to dig up dirt on his republican political opponent , they would all vote for impeachment . (And they would be on the right side for doing do.)
The whole narrative against Joe Biden and Ukraine is Russian propaganda – as stated in the hearings – in order to deflect the Mueller report and the position of the US Government Intelligence agencies that the Russians were the ones that meddled in our elections and they are doing it again right now.Jack – calm down. You sound like adam schiff. Nobody woth a rational opinion needs to get so bent out of shape. So you don’t like trump and want him out, good for you. So do millions of other people. But anyone who is honest will be at least eaqually upset by the actions of clinton funding corruption to interfere with an election, the FBI committing criminal offenses to interfere in an election and obama pretending he didnt know.
You are either for real justice, or your just afraid to admit that you are acting out of bias.You do realize, don’t you, that when people submit their votes before a hearing, it doesn’t say much about their integrity. And brings to question the validity of the process. If right was on their side, they didn’t behave like they believed that.
They don’t allow first hand witnesses and complain that impeachment has not been properly proven.
There is a hungarian proverb, whoever has butter on his head should not go under the sun. President Trump do you have butter on your head?
Syag ,
I made an appointment with my psychiatrist Lucy Van Pelt (only 5 cents when she is in), but she is booked until next November by the Angry White Men Republicans that are using the hearings to scream and shout about everything except for Trump attempting to steal the 2020 elections.Not going to the courts reminds me year 2000, Bush vs Gore, where the Supreme Court selected the president.
They are wasting 6 hours for “debate” when members of the House from each side get up for a minute or two and repeat the identical “talking points” they’ve been using for the past month. 435 members of Congress each want their 60 seconds of TV time to make the same arguments, pro and con. This could have been done in less than an hour, allow the Senate to vote up or down and get this charade over with.
GH, Not every one has been following those proceedings, so they want to show that there is a reason for their action.
Haha, GH! Are finally willing to admit it’s all a charade
The Senate will not vote for impeachment, but they and Mitch will be taught a lesson in procedure by the Chief Justice, who under law presides over the trial. Once the Chief Justice is sworn, Mitch no longer has a special place in this proceeding. The Chief Justice has a great deal of latitude during the proceeding, up to the point of calling witnesses. One must remember this constitutional process is a vehicle by which the president is held to account.
I keep hearing complaints about the closed committee meetings during the run up to the public investigation. The privacy of these meetings (prior to impeachment) was a practice during the Clinton impeachment and certainly consistent with the analogy that the hearings were part of a discovery phase. Just as discovery during a lower court trial is not make public until trial. The actual impeachment trial is the responsibility of the Senate presided over by the Chief Justice.
Of course even a no vote doesn’t stop the other house committees from continuing their investigations into the presidents finances.
Someone in the impeachment proceedings of the house said we are not impeaching the president, he is impeaching himself.
About pressure ond Zelinsky, when you push someone to the wall strong enough, eventually he will scream ‘uncle’. He was afraid to say I was pressured in order not to anger Trump.
Now the slick move would be for the Dems not to forward the articles to the Senate. Apparently he speaker of the house is suggesting the same.
Reb Eliezer – don’t you feel funny deciding someone’s motives based on what you think a person like them would say? I have been hearing so much of it that i don’t think they/you even realize how bizarre it is to imagine something into reality. To be soo steeped in negative expectations that you’ll just take that version as fact. You know, i assume, that applying bias to facts does not create evidence.
syag, how do you explain Trump’s pattern of behavior and his own admissions? הודעת בעל דין כמאה עדים דמי
Not producing witnesses and documents is similar to killing the parents and screaming, I am an orphan, so don’t touch me.
Someone tweeted, for once in his life Trump got something he earned.
Legally the House cannot be compelled to send the Articles of Impeachment to the Senate. If they do, once Chief Justice Roberts is seated the Senate will motion for the charges to be dismissed. If Chief Justice Roberts says no the Senate can call for a vote and override his decision based on their super majority. The House knows this, it’s been their long game since they know that the Senate will not vote to convict the President.
Syag: As I’ve said before, the bar was set so low after 30 months of non-stop vulgarity, demeaning anyone who disagreed with his policies, bullying, name calling, cozying up to every dictator and murdering tyrant in the world making policy decisions that jeopardize national security against the advice of the generals he originally called the greatest minds in the history of the military etc., etc, this ukraine meshguaas that was ginned up by Rudy seems relatively boring. We know that the Republicans in the Senate (with one or two exceptions) have no backbone to push back so lets just get it over with. Either way, he will always be remebered as one of the three Presidents to have been impeached….
GH- you’re a hoot. No denting trump has a communication disorder on so many levels but your mighty king clinton is the ones who brought the presidency, white house and country to an unprecedented low. It was clinton who transformed the airwaves to R rated and brought vulgarity to the dinner table. This is what ive been saying all along, feel free to hate trump, but cut the hypocrisy.
Clinton had a big yetzer hara but he did not curse in public, make fun of handicapped people and speak on the dead.
Oh man, if you are going to make the argument that cursing in public is worse than all of the things I listed above then it is obvious that you are not able to have a rational conversation on this topic
Non-stop lying, vulgarity, bullying etc. would arguably be tolerable if he had not repeately placed the national security at risk by ignoring the guidance of advisors such as McMaster, Mattis, Tillerson, Kelly and even Bolton. instead, he continues to act in an irrational, narcissistic way, alienating our allies, cozying up to the world’s most despicable tyrants, with only his own reputation and political interests underlying his constantly changing policies. The “derangement” is with what he has done an continues to do, not with who he is. It would have been possible to pursue his policy agenda without so debasing the office of the Presidency.
Lol! National Security at risk? Are you referring to Obama sending blankets instead of javelins or I’m guessing your referring to Obama’s 40 billion dollars in cash to the terrorists.
Hypocrisy
G H
Very true
Obama didn’t cozy up to enemies
He bowed to them
Trump will make a deal with anyone who he can make a buck off.
As long as he thinks it will benefit the USA he is ready to deal. Without caring what the other party is about.Do you blame him?
The one time he tried to make sure the other side is not corrupt, got him impeached!klugeryiid, why did he give Ukrane aid before Zelinky to a corrupt president?
When it comes to the economy look at the national debt?
Obama never gave military assistance to Ukrane, so we can argue whether it was good or bad, but Trump, who gave before why dd he stop giving? Was it because Biden became his opponent?
Biden being his opponent is a red herring. Remove your earplugs for a moment and take a moment to consider (just temporarily, no commitment required) that there is an additional viewpoint. Clinton, obama, biden broke laws to interfere with his campaign (undisputed fact ). If you find yourself in a phone call with someone who could help you exonerate yourself, or at least expose some of their games, wouldn’t you? The dems are using the fact that he is an opponent to pretend there wasn’t good reason to expose what the previous whitehouse administration did. That dishonesty is only second to having knowingly given it a pass in the first place.
So i don’t know if he held the money for an investigation, but i do know that the expression “it is clear it was to interferein the 2020 election” is a dishonest propaganda campaign to avoid exposure of corruption from the PREVIOUS administrators.It is not honest to take facts, apply your own motives, and assume that’s where it ends. As frum yidden we are trained to always know there is another side. I don’t really care about trump, ukraine or biden, but i can’t stand listening to dishonesty, hypocrisy and lack of openness from fellow Jews.
syag, two wrongs don’t make a right. If there is an investigation, we should do it here and not in Ukrane, we don’t spread out our dirty laundry.
You missed (avoided? Ignored?) the point. You are claiming it was to interefere in the 2020 election (a key point in the impeachment charge) when it could just as well have been to exonerate himself from accusations in the previous election. Or to uncover damage that was done to him in 16 that may be repeated in 20 when the DEMS intetfere in an election. Again.
Point is, stop being dishonest, it’s unbecoming of a yirei shamayim.
Anyone who followed Trump for his entire career knew what to expect. It was total stupidity for anyone to expect this guy with a history of lying, pandering to racial and white supremacist conspiracy theories, messing over his business associates and sub- contractors, serial infidelity and sexaual abuse., etc, etc. to suddenly change whne he moved into the oval office. I have little sympathy for “progressive’ friends who keep waiting for him to “pivot’ to the center or begin acting in accordance with the norms of 200+ years of American History. You knew what you were going to get, you got it and will continue to get it until you offer a clearly preferable alternative to a few thousand voters in 5 or 6 swing states. Winning California, New York, Illinois or Massachusetts by a million more votes means ZERO in an electoral college system. Get Real Dems or get comfortable with 4 more years of the Trumpkopf.
Tone down the language please
lets even grant that trump only asked to investigate biden (hunter) beacuse it would help him out.
is there anything wrong , with pressing for a legitimate corruption investigation , when you are choosing specifically one of many available, because that one will have a side benifit of helping you politically?Syag – Did you see the WAPO that the Ukranean election interference is a russian Putin talking point which never happened?
B”H i no longer expose myself to secular media
syag, A smart person knows what he does not know and will not argue.
Sounds like good advice more people should follow
Practically speaking, this impeachment is good for Trump.
1. Trump loves the media attention. It seems to me that he is of the opinion that all publicity is good publicity.
2. He will not be removed from office. That would require 67 senators to vote for that. I.e. 20 Republicans to jump ship.Trump will use this to his advantage when campaigning, the attention and the winning martyr image.
Impeachment is a waste of time. Pelosi is in no hurry to submit it to the senate for a trail. 2020 is an election year but the senators a third of which are up for reelection and a few of them are running for President are going to be stuck in Washington for a month or longer for the Impeachment Trial instead of campaigning. Biden who is no longer a senator is at the center of this impeachment
Klugeryid, indeed, asking for an investigation of an corrupt government employee is not an impeachable offense. The drug addict, Hunter Biden, needed to be investigated in any case. Trump could likely have wanted to kill two birds with one stone and that’s irrelevant as long as there was cause for Biden to have been investigated.
philosipher, I asked before, If Biden and his son were corrupt, why did Trump give aid before Zelinsky?
“If Biden and his son were corrupt, why did Trump give aid before Zelinsky?”
Trump’s lack of enforcing the law, then using it opportunitistly does not negate the Bidens being corrupt.
Maybe it proves that the Bidens are not corrupt because otherwise he would have investigated them before when there was a corrupt president in Ukrane?
“Maybe it proves that the Bidens are not corrupt ….”
No.
Just that Trump was holding onto it in case he could use it.By holding back appropriated funds for his own benefit thereby endangering our national security and not for corruption as the Bidens were already corrupt before, Trump violated the constitution and he needs to be impeached.
“thereby endangering our national security and not for corruption”
Except you are relying on propaganda to back that. It just proves that if they say something enough times people believe it to be true.
thereby endangering our national security
How?
syag, what part is incorrect?
By not providing the help Ukrane needs and thereby showing that the US is not backing them, and also showing the approval of annexing of Crimea, Trump is enpowering Russia to annex more of Ukrane and of Europe ( appeasement, give a finger wanting the whole hand) which is dangerous to our national security.
“By not providing the help Ukrane needs and thereby showing that the US is not backing them, and also showing the approval of annexing of Crimea,…..”
You must love Trump much more than Obama, considering that Obama did not lift a finger for either of those 2 little countries.
Seriously, your logic is a bit streched.
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