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Goq, btw, I may not be a man, but in some ways it is far worse to be an older FEMALE single than a male. Women who are not married by age 25/26 are pitied. Guys are looked at in a more positive light until after they reach their 30s. Right or wrong, people will tend to treat ALL older singles in ways that may be perceived offensively. A great deal has to do with one’s attitude to those perceptions.
I didn’t get married until I was 26. Every time someone would say, “I’YH by you,” to me at a simcha, I smiled and said a heartfelt thank you and amein. A relative of mine who was a year younger, became incensed and depressed when she would hear what she called “the metchems,” from them. It’s all in one’s approach.
But in some ways it is far worse to be an older single male because if a woman of advanced age is single people tsk tsk and bemoan the shidduch crisis if a man is of an advanced age they think there is no reason for him not to be married so he is labeled as a freak or a neb.
Gotta admit it’s not an easy parsha for ANYONE, male or female (and btw, older single women are frequently referred to as “too picky,” or farbissen, or a whole host of other mean-spirited things, so it’s really pretty even for both genders). The bottom line – ALL people should be treated appropriately, not patronized or made to feel they are lesser beings for reasons beyond their control. But they should likewise not look for hidden motives in others or feel insulted when insult is not intended.
One more point oomis and then i will drop it, what if you were invited to someones house for a large party and they seated you at the kids table i think the ops feelings is similiar to this you should not be treated like a child if you are an adult regardless of your marital status, you might reply well at least you were invited to such a wonderful party you should be grateful but no most people would not be grateful to be treated like this.
Goq, that’s a good example. And for frum men, communal life is really about what goes on in shul.
Goq AND Popa, as I think I mentioned, that was precisely what happened to me as a 21 year old single female, when I was invited to my not-so-close relative’s daughter’s wedding, SPECIFICALLY (so the baal simcha said)so that I could meet the chosson’s single friends for shidduch purposes. I was however, seated at the kid’s table, the oldest child being Bar-mitzvah age. So I DO know what it feels like, but you are mamesh comparing apples and oranges, and it frankly surprises me that you don’t see a difference between the two scenarios.
There is no question that a single adult being seated with little kids at a simcha OR the Shabbos tisch, (and especially under such circumstances as mine were), was wholly inappropriate. That is absolutely not the same as giving a kibud to someone that if often given to teenage boys. The kibud itself is NOT insulting, and should not be viewed that way in my humble and honest opinion, and though I feel for the OP who is single, who clearly takes issue with this. I also think too much has been made of this and people are overthinking it. Adults should not be treated like children. But a kovod related to the Torah should not be treated lightly, no matter WHAT the reason is.
And for all the Gabbaim out there who have possibly unkowingly and unintentionally embarrassed or insulted single men by only giving g’lilah to kids, take note of this discussion and STOP doing that. The kovod should be given to any male over the age of 13, and not only to a specific demographic.
OP, I apologize, if I made you feel I am not understanding your point and was unduly critical of your post. I do stand by my belief that there is no such thing as a “bad” kibud relating to Torah, but I get it.
Oomis, you may join my club. We are the only two posters who have ever conceded to learning anything new in a discussion on the CR.
For the record: I’m ok with gelilla being a “kid’s kibbud”, the same way shlish is a “choshuv kibbud.” I’m just not ok with single=kid.
Hmmm…
Wonder why the Mods are posting my posts in invisible ink…
How do they do that?
“I’m just not ok with single=kid”
+100000000 popa
There is a good point here that may involve shul politics.
Galila in my shul is usually given to kids or those perceived to look and be less frum.
The chashuva people who usually get aliyahs never seem to be asked to do galila when on the Shabbos they are not given aliyahs.
Personally, I have been asked a few times to open the curtain when they take the Torah out, and I once said I prefer not because I lose my place in davening at some point. And for me, I am there to daven to Hashem.
Anyway, I was conflicted between accepting the honor versus losing my place and concentration in davening.
Aside from the objectivity everyone is offering, I see the point of the poster regarding the politics of the shul.
Such roles should be given out equitably so that on one perceives a trend of which honors are given to people “perceived” to be more Godly.
If there are no kids in shul it’s okay for the gabbai to give gelila to an older single? Or must he then give gelila to a married guy but definitely not the single?
If there are no kids in shul it’s okay for the gabbai to give gelila to an older single? Or must he then give gelila to a married guy but definitely not the single?
He should definitely make sure to do it in the most outrageous way possible so as to insult the most people. Particularly if that will make him seem very frum.
Or that’s what I heard in the name of Rabbi Miller once. I don’t think I should believe it though.
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