I'm not a kid

nu, someone shtell tzu popas thread

My great grandfather was the rav and the “candy man” of the shul that he built. Even when he was in his last months of life, in pain and dying of leukemia; sitting in shul on Shabbat a little child came to my great grandfather for candy. His grandsons, my father and my uncle, would tell him to sit down – that they would go get it for the child instead. Yet, he insisted. He lifted himself up out of his seat and slowly limped to the cabinet in the back of the shul, where he had left the bag of lollipops to bring one back for this young child. He was a gadol nistar who respected even the smallest of mitzvahs, putting a smile on a young child’s face. But for a saint such as you, being mechabed a sefer torah – such an insignificant mitzvah – I think everyone can agree you’re too high and lofty for that… I don’t understand what the gabbay’s hava aminah was! It’s a bizayon to you to have to waste your precious time with such shtus. It’s poshut bitul Torah.

I’m missing something here… Glila is a bizayon for a grown man? I thought its a kibud?

http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/why-i-wont-let-my-kids-do-%d7%92%d7%9c%d7%99%d7%9c%d7%94#post-275759

Yes, I would be happy for zeidy78 to be my zeidy. I would even buy him gelila.

At my aufrauf they gave me gelila because they thought it was funny. It was.

lior: no that goes against halacha/tradition.

but not giving them gilila dosent

Thats just the point sirvodd married people dont have to ask for respect they just get it.

I think the idea is since it’s a job that’s given to kids, we don’t want to do what is like their job, even though it’s very important. It’s like when I was in high school(went to a small school near an elementary school) and the teacher suggested joining the younger students for an activity that i felt was too young, like making our own shofar. I refused because it was their project.

I think it’s sad though that Gelila is viewed negatively, when it’s an important job. I understand though about not wanting to viewed as a kid

As most of you know, who know me for many years in the CR, the one main thing that ALWAYS grinds my gears, is disrespect. It is one of the very few things about which I might give mussar to another poster, and out of deference to the obvious lack of thought that the OP put into his comment before actually hitting “send post,” I will assume he was just trying to elicit lots of controversial commentary.

I don’t know if g’lilah is more choshuv than shlishi or any other kibud, for that matter. What I do know is that when one is offered the opportunity to be mechabeid the Torah, and treats that kovod with zilzul the way it seems to have been treated here, there is something fundamental that is apparently lacking in that person’s thinking.

I hope the OP will reconsider his ill-advised comment, and be appreciative of ANY kovod that is offered to him. My husband is a real baal anivus, and feels as though he should refuse certain kibbudim because he believes himself to be unworthy of them, having come from an irreligious background. I told him the same thing I am saying here. It is not just a kovod to the person, it is kovod to the Torah, and it would be disrespectful to refuse. Only exception in my mind, is when someone is being given that kovod too frequently, when others have not had a chance. And there is still a respectful way to express the thought that perhaps it is someone else’s turn.

Ivory, I appreciate your comment.

@oomis

Yes, but in your standing up for respect, you have ignored the very basic level of respect that op is looking for.

Oomis, the OP presented his point in a joking manner, but I don’t think he’s playing with us.

The fact is, this is a Kibbud that is usually given to a younger bachur. The problem is that a man of 30 or 40 or 50 who isn’t married, is still considered a bachur. And may actually feel uncomfortable to be called up to the Torah, bifnei am v’eidah, at a point where it’s common to see a young man proudly sporting his first Borsalino.

The embarrassment is similar (forgive me if I’m wrong, Miss Haifa) to haifagirl’s discomfort (mentioned in a different thread) when her friend’s children call her by her first name, and call their mother’s married friends who are 20 years younger than haifag, “Mrs X”.

People who have not yet been zoche to stand under the Chuppa with their bashert want to be respected as normal, adult members of our society, not as overgrown (possibly graying) childen. That’s the respect the OP is requesting, oomis.

I think that what threw you off course is the fact that there is a Sefer Torah involved in the discussion. And Kavod Torah does have precedence. But I didn’t notice any intended bizayon (Ch”v’Sh) here. Just a request for consideration, and recognition of the fact that the OP is a mature adult.

With all the hype about the catastrophe (not my word, coined by someone far more chashuv than me) facing our older single ladies, it’s understandable that the men who find themselves in the same predicament feel somewhat invisible. They have all these askanim pointing out to them, in large colorful ads, that they don’t actually exist. Or, if they do in fact find they have a pulse, and see a reflection in the mirror, it must mean there’s something seriously wrong with them.

So Popa may or may not have been joking (I don’t think so), but I have to agree with him.

Without expressing an opinion one way or the other regarding Gelilah, I will just mention that I don’t think “You gotta relax” is an appropriate response to offer someone who has taken offense.

I disagree. Substantively, I can see both sides here. But one of my pet peeves is when someone responds to an objection (legitimate or not) by saying “Chill” or something in that genre. It’s condescending, offensive, and shuts down dialogue.

May I suggest a practical impractical idea… Maybe if mature men (married and single) would start accepting glila it wouldn’t be a kids aliya and no one would be offended!

In other words we’re going around in circles. The adults don’t want to accept it cause it belongs to the kids. The gabbaim can’t stop giving it to kids cause adults don’t want to accept!

Not really Ivory. They could just keep giving it to kids, and also not give it to single men over 18.

I was responding to Purim mashgiachs response

Yes Lior, because the torah says lo tonu.

So are you oveid Hashem or rabbi miller?

The fact is, this is a Kibbud that is usually given to a younger bachur. “

Not in my shul.This is more often given to the elderly who can no longer do Hagbaha and cannot stand for an aliyah. I think that shows GREAT respect for them.

I believe that the very fact that the OP chose the kovod of G’lilah as his example (if it is correct that he merely wants to be treated as an adult and not as a kid), leads me to feel he has another agenda, and that is to stir up the controversy that he did, or else, he has no inner concept of kovod for Torah.

And Popa, yes, I believe in respect all around. But I also believe first and foremost in respect for the Torah, and that is NOT was I was feeling from that OP’s words. I think that after all these years, you should recognize that I try to be very reflective and think before I speak. And I try to always be sincere in what I express. Perhaps this time around, I did not express myself sufficiently well. If so, I regret that lapse.

However, WHATEVER the OP meant to convey, it came off (to me, at least and possibly to some others) as a bit chutzpahdig when speaking of something related to kovod haTorah. I will l’chaf zechus at this point, assume that was unintentional on his part, but please be assured, I am not overly-sensitive, I am quite “chillaxed” (especially now that everyone has gone home after yom tov), and if I give mussar in this forum, I must be feeling VERY strongly about the subject at hand. Regarding and worse, describing, ANY kovod relating to the Torah in a dismissive way, upsets me very much. It reminds me of someone who was insulted at my oldest son’s wedding because her husband was “only” asked to be an Eid Kiddushin at the Chuppah, instead of being asked to make a bracha under it.

Oomis with all due respect (and i have much respect for you) you have never been an older single bochur you dont know the pain of such an individual and how they are slighted by society as a whole this is just one way which is done publicly and therefore can hurt even more, I don’t think the gabbaim are doing this maliciously but just the same it is a slight it is saying you are not quite a man thats how the man perecieves as well as the rest of the shul.

I will be mekabeil the explanations being given. I personally have never observed in ANY shul that I have attended, that young bochurim or older single males were being singled out for g’lilah. So the concept of this being done “routinely” is quite foreign to me. Anything that is done in such a way as to make someone feel embarrassed (like putting me at the kids’ table at a slightly distant relative’s wedding (when I was specifically included in the wedding as a way of introducing me ot friends of the chosson), is improper. But IMO one should never feel that any action relating to the taking out or putting back the Torah, is a “slight” or a lesser kovod. It is unfortunate that ANY shul would relegate a kovod of this type only to bochurim or older singles, resulting in their finding it ultimately offensive and embarrassing, when it should never be considered as such. Would you feel the same way if Shishi were only given out to the same demographic?

I do, however, understand your point, though I am not a male.