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Syag > When someone’s mind is made up before the fact,
Indeed, stats show that there are 2 clusters of adults who are not taking the vaccine, each about 12% of population. One is 20 to 3- y.o, urban, somewhat more minority, both parties. They claim “wait and see” attitude, presumably will vaccinate after the formality of full authorization in several weeks.
The 2nd are 20-50 y.o., mostly Republicans, rural, without college education. Their attitude is “never”. Jewish anti-vaxers seem to belong to this 2nd hard-core group, fitting into everything except “rural”.
This seems to be infospace phenomenon: it is not that these people each independently came to a conclusion. It is that they somehow get news from some weirdo doctors, directly or indirectly … It is not clear how we can help this 2nd group to look at the issues clearly. One recommended approach is to listen to their concerns and discuss them. Does not seem to work online. Maybe if you know people like that, esp with medical issues, call them up and express your friendly concern for their help before it is late.
Health –
That article has a few individual stories. Where are the real numbers?
“Jewish anti-vaxers seem to belong to this 2nd hard-core group, fitting into everything except “rural”.”
Pure rubbish
Other countries are accepting proof of recovery in lieu of vaccinating.
THe reason why we can’t get herd immunity is not becuase more people aren’t taking the vaccine, but becuase the virus can live in animals. The concept of herd immunity is that once enough people get the vaccine, the virus dies as there is no host for it to live in. But since animals can be hosts it’s impossible
to reach herd immunity until they too are vaccinated. Which is why I think testing everybody (humans) for antibodies and vaccinating those who don’t have antibodies is a better way to combatting this virus. This is just common sense.Abba_S, Korach also used “common sense” (Rav Soloveichik called it the “common sense rebellion against Torah authority”). The chances of an animal infecting a person with COVID-19 are very low. Even if this were not so, the vast majority who get the viruses would not be affected or only slightly affected. That is why epidemiologists agree that it is at least theoretically possible. Whether or not this is a practical possibility depends on people. If you have not gotten the jab get it!
Avi K Where did this virus originate? It supposedly came from bats in China. If it started out jumping from animal to human so why are you considering a very remote chance that the virus can jump again from animal to human.
The purpose of the vaccine is to build antibodies to fight the virus. If you have the antibodies you don’t need the vaccine. These antibodies die out over time which is why people who were vaccinated catch the virus. This is why Israel which has a high rate of vaccination is being hit with another wave of the virus.
I get tested for both the anti bodies and covid every 6 months and all of the test have shown that I have the antibodies but do not have covid. Even though I have worked from the office most of last year and all of this year and take the subway (mass transit) in order to get there.
As far as Korech is concerned he wanted Aron’s job, but Aron’s two son just died because they couldn’t wait until Aron died so they could get the job. So I am not sure how you can say that it was a common sense rebellion.ubiquitin, talking about not knowing how so-called vaccines work which you claim I did, you showed ignorance in telling me that natural mRNAs do not enter the nucleus which is wrong, they certainly do enter the nucleus. There is no definite proof that mRNA from these shots cannot enter the nucleus. And DNA and proteins are in the nucleus as well so the DNA and protein shots could enter as well, in fact likely DNA based shots work in the nucleus as natural DNA do, I’m not going to do research on this because I really don’t care where they are SUPPOSED to carry out their functions, the point is that these shots are not guaranteed to not enter the nucleus where natural DNA is located, and where natural RNAs and proteins enter as well. You said that these shots do not effect the nucleus of the cell which is wrong, the entire premise of this “vaccine” stands on the fact that it is supposed to “teach” the cell how to respond to the virus. As for changing the DNA, I did not say it changes the hair, color, eye color, etc. I clearly said it can change the way our bodies naturally respond to viruses that is coded in the DNA.
Ubiquitin, as far as the coronavirus shot traveling to different parts of the body than the covid-19 itself, I concede that you are right, they may both travel to the brain, I just took what professor Bhagdi said as proof and forgot about those who developed DVT from the virus itself. However regardless, it has been established these shots itself can cause deep vein thrombosis, myocarditis, pericarditis, and neurological adverse conditions.
If people want to talk about the elderly getting these shots I see their point. However for those who have already recovered from covid-19 and for younger people, and certainly for teens and children, these shots can cause more adverse reactions and deaths than covid-19.
Talking about natural vs so-called coronavirus vaccine immunity, most people who got covid-19 and tested themselves a year later for antibodies still had very high numbers of antibodies while immunity from these so-called vaccine was down to 16% after 6 months according to an Israeli study. The reason booster shots are needed so quickly after the first two doses for a reason, immunity doesn’t last long (if at all seeing how many are developing covid-19 despite getting the shot).
According to an Israeli study reported in Arutz Sheva, individuals who got the shot were 6.7x more likely to get infected after the shot than after natural infection. And this study was done just a few months after distribution of the “vaccine”, let’s see what happens in another 6 months.
Phil
“you showed ignorance in telling me that natural mRNAs do not enter the nucleus which is wrong, they certainly do enter the nucleus”
source please.
You told me to google it I can’t find anything. Could you please help?“You said that these shots do not effect the nucleus of the cell which is wrong, the entire premise of this “vaccine” stands on the fact that it is supposed to “teach” the cell how to respond to the virus.”
This line doesn’t make any sense. As has been explained to you over and over, Translation (forming proteins using mRNA as a blueprint) takes place in the cytoplasm not the Nucleus (you are confusing translation with transcription which is when mRNA is produced using DNA as a template this takes place in the nucleus) .
So the way the vaccine works is it injects mRNA encoding for spike proteins into the body. This is not much different than viral mRNA entering the body which does the same. the mRNa is taken up by the cells and spike proteins are produced in the cytoplasm (not nucleus). Once the spike proteins are produced, the immune system recognizes them as foreign, and produces antibodies against them.
Now you have antibodies against the viral spike proteins” I clearly said it can change the way our bodies naturally respond to viruses that is coded in the DNA.”
Yes you said that many times. But it is meaningless. It isn’t just that it isnt true. It is pure gibberish similar to the sentence “Colorless green ideas sleep furiously” It doesn’t mean anything. There is no natural response to virus coded in DNA, and if there was nothing is being changed.
“I concede that you are right, they may both travel to the brain, I”
No concession is necessary. We aren’t arguing. I’m not trying to win (meaning I don’t think I will or can convince you of anything) . You are making statements as if they are fact. You are repeating statements from Anti-smites to support your pre concieved notion.)
I grant I don’t understand the need to vaccinate those who have had Covid. You will note , I never argued for this in any of my posts. In fact, I don’t think I even argued to support covid vaccines at all (although I certainly support them) Just don’t make stuff up. That is what is infuriating People just lying (on both sides) in support of their position. I don’t get why people can’t resort to support their position without blatant lying. Chazal say people don’t lie if they will be found it. We have stopped beyond that. I have heard a doctor argue that a NEJM article showed an increase in misscariges. The article did not show that at all. Yet he still repeats it with no consequence. That is what I am responding to. Blatant misrepresentation.
OF course if in fact you have a source for your claim (that mRNA from the vaccine enters the nucleus and can somehow exert an effect on DNA) by all means please share it. If you don’t please stop saying it.
There is no definite proof that mRNA from these shots cannot enter the nucleus.
There is no definite proof that being around blond people doesn’t turn you into a horse.
I can make any claim with the statement “There’s no definite proof that it doesn’t….”. That’s not how logic works.
Ubiq -“source please.”
I’ll tell you his source.
He looked on the Anti-Vax site & everybody knows that they only write the Truth!User176 -“Where are the real numbers?”
I was responding to this post –
“I have yet to see an article about recovered people getting corona”.I’m Not interested in having an argument with an Anti – Vaxxer!
You’ll do want you want, no matter what I respond.Ubiquitin, RNA transport into the nucleus is basic cell biology. There are numerous sources for this. I find it hard to believe that you couldn’t find reputable sources by typing in “mRNA tranfser into the nucleus” in the Google subject line.
I would paste links but I don’t think it is allowed here . Here are some sources:
PNAS published an article Nov 22 2005 titled “Mechanism of mRNA transport in the nucleus”
Pubmed published an article on Nov 2005 titled “Mechanism of mRNA transport into the nucleus”
An article published on viralzone titled “viral penetration in host nucleus” talking about viral RNAs, DNAs, etc pentratrating the nucleus.
An article titled “Extracellular mRNA transported to the nucleus” published on June 16 2021 on nature .com .
Phil -“RNA transport into the nucleus is basic cell biology. There are numerous sources for this. I find it hard to believe that you couldn’t find reputable sources by typing in “mRNA tranfser into the nucleus” in the Google subject line.”
LOL.
Ubiq says he’s a Doc & you’re trying to teach him basic Biology?!?
It really looks like that you Never learnt Biology in H.S.
LOL!😁I did you a favor – I’m gonna teach you about mRna vaccines.
From the CDC:
“A Closer Look at How COVID-19 mRNA Vaccines Work:
COVID-19 vaccines:
COVID-19 mRNA vaccines give instructions for our cells to make a harmless piece of what is called the “spike protein.” The spike protein is found on the surface of the virus that causes COVID-19.
First, COVID-19 mRNA vaccines are given in the upper arm muscle. Once the instructions (mRNA) are inside the muscle cells, the cells use them to make the protein piece. After the protein piece is made, the cell breaks down the instructions and gets rid of them.
Next, the cell displays the protein piece on its surface. Our immune systems recognize that the protein doesn’t belong there and begin building an immune response and making antibodies, like what happens in natural infection against COVID-19.
At the end of the process, our bodies have learned how to protect against future infection. The benefit of mRNA vaccines, like all vaccines, is those vaccinated gain this protection without ever having to risk the serious consequences of getting sick with COVID-19.
Facts about COVID-19 mRNA Vaccines:
They cannot give someone COVID-19.
mRNA vaccines do not use the live virus that causes COVID-19.
They do not affect or interact with our DNA in any way.
mRNA never enters the nucleus of the cell, which is where our DNA (genetic material) is kept.
The cell breaks down and gets rid of the mRNA soon after it is finished using the instructions.”Syag, I never called myself an anti-vaxxer. I gave my kids all the required shots so why would I call myself an anti-vaxxer? The coronavirus “vaccine” is not a traditional vaccine. It doesn’t keep people from getting the virus nor from passing the virus. There are serious KNOWN side effects where people are simply discarding because they feel it’s a relatively small percentage of people getting the side effects. However, the risks may in the end be far greater of getting serious adverse affects from these shots than from covid-19 particularly in younger people. There are no long term studies that are done on every vaccine and medication put out on the market, but for this so-called vaccine the public are the lab rats.
I find it highly suspicious that the government wants to force these shots on people who are already recovered from covid-19, on kids and on young adults, these are all people who have an extremely low chance of death or developing serious medical issues from covid-19. Almost every single case of death or serious illness from covid-19 in young adults and children was because of co-morbidities of prior illnesses. I find it suspicious that the government with it’s pro adoptation of the slogan “my body, my choice” has no compunction in forcing people to accept an experimental vaccine. The excuse of the government is that this prevents the spread of coronavirus to those who are immunocompromised, but they know good and well that there’s no real immunity with this vaccine, therefore they want to force mask mandates, some governments are enforcing lockdowns again despite a very large part of their citizens being “vaccinated”, and they are encouraging (and likely eventually forcing) people to get booster shots.
There are those who will say these shots prevent serious symptoms when getting infected by covid-19 and therefore these shots “must” be given to everyone, to that I say that everyone has the right of “their body, their choice”. People deciding not to take the vaccine have a right to refuse due to their beliefs just as those who BELIEVE these shots to be beneficial are basing their opinions on their beliefs. To base ones opinions on government directives is stupid, the government claims that one can change their genders as well which is scientifically impossible. Many governments throughout history forced people to do stupid things, it doesn’t mean that in 2021 they have your best interests in mind or that the are not stupid. If you think these shots are great that is your belief, at this point in time there are no definite conclusive studies at this point.
Health, I don’t remember ubequitin saying he’s a doctor, nevertheless even if he’s a doctor who doesn’t know that mRNAs can be transported into the nucleus, the scientific proven facts stay sciencific proven facts. There are doctors encouraging gender change, does that mean people can change genders? Sorry, science doesn’t change even if doctors don’t know something or have errorneous beliefs.
I have bought many sources of natural mRNA entering the nucleus so what exactly are you arguing about? Ubequitin said mRNAs never enter the nucleus and therefore we can say for a fact that coronavirus shot mRNAs do no enter the nucleus. However, as I’ve proven with sources, there are many types of mRNA that enter the nucleus . Whether these coronavirus shots mRNAs enter the nucleus or not has never been proven or disproven, it has just been assumed not to enter the nucleus. Furthermore, DNA and protein are also located in the nucleus so how can we say that for sure the shots DNA or protein don’t enter the nucleus?
Some of your facts are assumptions that were spread by MSM and the CDC which changes positions very often. You cannot arrive at some of these “facts” without years of study which has not been done on these so-called vaccinations.
And some “facts” are plainly understood. Obviously, if these are cell-based mRNAs, DNAs and protein based shots they don’t work as traditional vaccines with live viruses.
And thank you for teaching me how these so-called vaccines work, I didn’t know until you so kindly pointed it out to me so…
Phil
Thanks. I googled. Little came up. Same for you I see
“PNAS published an article Nov 22 2005 titled “Mechanism of mRNA transport in the nucleus””
This is on mRNA transport OUT OF the nucleus. As I mentioned several times mRNA is formed in the nucleus (transcription) it is then used to make proteins the cytoplasm (trasnaltion)
Obviously there is a mechanism to transport mRNA OUT OF the nucleus.In fact this undermines your contention (a little). mRNA transport out of the nucleus is quite involved. In the absence of evidence of a reverse mechanism there is no reason to think one exists
“Pubmed published an article on Nov 2005 titled “Mechanism of mRNA transport into the nucleus””
I couldn’t find this one, Google brings up the same article you previously cited “…transport in… ” not “into”
“An article published on viralzone titled “viral penetration in host nucleus” talking about viral RNAs, DNAs, etc pentratrating the nucleus.”
Yes As mentioned (first pointed out by you I believe Viral mRNA can and does enter the nucleus. This is mostly thanks to various proteins the virus supplies. If you look at the excellent source your provided (thanks!) You will see a nice table listing viral factors and host factors that enables the mRNA to enter. Obviously the vaccine lacks those viral factors, thus yet again yo uhave helped prove that vaccine mRNA DOES NOT enter the nucleus
“An article titled “Extracellular mRNA transported to the nucleus” published on June 16 2021 on nature .com .”
Thanks a lot for sharing. This one was a heavy Basic science article. I haven’t read one of those in quite some time. Thanks for the push.At first glance it sort of supports what you’ve been saying “This study demonstrates for the first time that mRNA is itself utilized as an intercellular messenger molecule with nuclear functions.” (You are really ahead of the curve this study showed it for the first time and was only published in June 2021! AFTER you predicted it kudos!)
Sadly, it though it is a bit limited . The study looks at a specific protein ZC3H12D and its antitumor effect in natural killer cells (as I understood it, as mentioned it is pretty advanced stuff, Some of it went over my head). Using this to extrapolate to all cells is a bit of a stretch.Phil
A few quick points
“who doesn’t know that mRNAs can be transported into the nucleus,”
no shame in not knowing. You cited a article from June 2021 that said it was the first article to ever suggest this. So You cant really fault me for not knowing it can you?
“I have bought many sources of natural mRNA entering the nucleus…”
Of the four sources you cited only one said that. And it seems rather limited. And certainly requires further validation
“Furthermore, DNA and protein are also located in the nucleus so how can we say that for sure the shots DNA or protein don’t enter the nucleus?”
RNA and DNA are not interchangeable. We are not discussing DNA
“And some “facts” are plainly understood. ”
often plainly understood facts are wrong. Ace inhibitors are good for patients w/ hypertension and CKD, ARBs are good as well. LEts give both will be super good! Nope further study showed this wasn’t true. Keep ALL plainly understood facts at the door. (or at least acknowledge that it is your theory and not in fact, a ” fact”)
I think we’ve learnt two things from this thread:
- Don’t talk about complicated scientific processes unless you’re well educated and experienced in the field. Reading some literature you found online doesn’t make you well educated.
- If you’re feeling afraid of the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines then you should have no problem taking the J&J shot.
yserbius, this discussion is a continuation from another thread discussing whether mRNA can enter the nucleus of the cell or not. The J&J shot is a worse option because the DNA in the shot actually works by producing spike proteins in the nucleus so that it’s not even an hypothetical scenario, but an actual fact, that it enters the nucleus . Not that I would consider taking any of these shots even if I would not have had covid-19, which I already did.
Now I never claimed to be educated, in fact you don’t have to be very educated to see what’s going on in countries with high coronavirus shots rate per capita. You don’t have to be very educated to know that there are no long-term studies for these shots and to understand who are the lab rats. As I said before, there are doctors who claim that one can change genders, they may have more knowledge of biology or medicine than me, it doesn’t mean that they are right or that they even take into consideration basic biology. Many times people’s ideology can cloud out their perception of reality despite being educated. You can believe my perception of reality is wrong regarding these so-called vaccines and it doesn’t matter how educated you are, I do not see it the way you do. As of today, although our rights are becoming increasingly limited, it is still a free country and I can say what I want regarding this topic. You don’t have to read or respond to my comments if you don’t like them or disagree with them. As I said many times, I don’t hold a gun to anybody’s head forcing them to read my comments or agree with them.
ubiqutin, I was too hasty yesterday, not really reading the articles as I didn’t have the time to do so and skimmed through the articles too quickly missing the line about the mRNAs exiting into the cytoplasm. Indeed, those two articles are actually the same. Sorry about that.
Now I see why you can’t get find the articles about mRNA transport into the nucleus as I originally did because I can’t find them all these articles either, they seem to have disappeared. Call me a conspiracist, but these articles seem to be censured by Google as I am sure I am not the only person researching this top trying to find info about mRNA transport into the nucleus due to these “vaccines”. All info on mRNA, vRNA (besides for that one article I posted about vRNA) and mRNA-proteins being transported into the nucleus have disappeared. And the reason I appear to have “predicted” extracellular transport of mRNA into the nucleus article is because I knew for a fact that mRNA transports into the nucleus as well as exports. That is a new study about extracellular tranpsot but not the fact that about 20% of the mRNA is transported back into the nucleus despite Google currently hiding these articles. This is so surreal, I can cannot believe that Google is going to this extent to hide info from the public. Now every time I search for articles on “mRNA transport into the nucleus” most of the info coming up is about the vaccine or mRNA export from the nucleus.
However, since I knew you won’t believe me that I really read the articles about mRNA being transported into the nucleus, I did some sleuthing and finally uncovered one article. I am sure there are plenty more hiding but they must be searched well to find them and I’m at the present not inclines to do so. It is indeed a pity that I didn’t post my sources when you asked for them, there were a lot of articles talking about this topic, many containing excellent diagrams.
Here is the article I found of mRNAs being transported into the nucleus
degruyter .com/ document/ doi /10.1515 /bmc-2014-0018if that doesn’t work after you delete the spaces then it’s on degruyter .com website published in 20014. the article is titled “Regulation of Line-1 in mammals”
It seems like you enjoy reading these comprehensive articles, but if you are not in the mood to read through the entire article, I found the paragraph under figure 1 sums my entire premise.There’s another interesting and revealing article on the subject of mNRA “vaccinations” published on December 2, 2020, before the vaccine rollout, but well hidden to the public, of course. It was published on sciencemag. org . The article is titled “Public needs to prep for vaccine side effects”
We have to weigh the effect of the vaccine towards the effect of COVID. The probability of ill effects of the vaccine is much smaller than the risk of ending up in the hospital and death c’v with COVID without beihg vaccinated.
Sorry, I made a mistake in my previous post.. Not 20% of mRNA reenter the nucleus, 20% of the human genome “Line-1” that can reverse transcibe their mRNA to DNA, can enter somewhere else in our genome, including the cell nucleus during cell division.
You’re pretending that it’s a simple question. It’s not. It’s a very complicated question that requires a lot of background and education to understand. Judging from your comments, I have my doubts that you have the education or knowledge to understand, kal v’chomer explain, what the vaccines do. You say “Whether the mRNA enters the nucleus of the cell or not”. Does it? Doesn’t it? Is it common? Uncommon? Is entering the nucleus a bad thing? None of these have straight answers and none are answerable by anyone without extensive education and experience in the fields.
I see what’s going on in countries with high coronavirus rates per-capita. Countries like Israel which is seeing right now peak Delta-variant hospitalizations which are not even as high as the lowest rate of hospitalizations before the vaccine was distributed.
And stop with this CNN-style fear mongering about “untested vaccines”. They’ve been out and tested on millions for well over a year. That’s longer and more widespread than most FDA approved medications.
So unless you’re willing to deny any and all medication, hospital care, and doctors, you have to stop scaring people about the vaccine. Facts don’t care about your feelings. You’re feeling scared, but the facts are that the vaccine works and is far less dangerous than the possibility of COVID.
Ubiq -“Obviously the vaccine lacks those viral factors, thus yet again yo uhave helped prove that vaccine mRNA DOES NOT enter the nucleus”
Obviously he doesn’t understand what you wrote.
I’ll post to him.Phil -“Some of your facts are assumptions that were spread by MSM and the CDC which changes positions very often. You cannot arrive at some of these “facts” without years of study which has not been done on these so-called vaccinations.”
Stop posting your Anti-Vaxx Stupidity!
You don’t need years of Study to see if the mRna vaccines enters the nucleus.
If it did, they would have seen that with the First patients that were given the Vax.You Anti-Vaxxers don’t know anything about Real medical science, but that doesn’t stop you from presenting your Narishkeit to many of the population!
It’s unfortunate that many people have Not gotten the Vax until now.Phil
“Now I see why you can’t get find the articles about mRNA transport into the nucleus as I originally did because I can’t find them all these articles either,”
No, that’s not it.
Ive been looking since this conversation started over 2 months ago. I too couldn’t find them . you probably made the same mistake you did yesterday, and assumed “transport in” meant “into” and didn’t actually read the articles. I don’t blame you they are not light reading.“It is indeed a pity that I didn’t post my sources when you asked for them”
It is, though to be clear, I looked then. I didn’t ask you becasue I was lazy
“It seems like you enjoy reading these comprehensive articles,”
Its not that I enjoy them, I want to learn more, to know hte truth.That said, good job sleuthing and thanks for sharing your finds. As noted in the article the process is quite regulated, and doubtful that it is relevant to our topic.
But yes it seems that in some cases mRNA can be imported into the nucleus. Thanks for the push to learn moreUbiquitin, well, obviously I found that info now after searching for quite awhile but knowing what I’m looking for because I had already seen it. Without seeing those articles a few weeks ago I wouldn’t search so long for something that I already knew had to be out there because I’d seen the articles about it already. Btw, I read an interesting article on the wall street journal website titled “How Google Interferes with it’s search algorithms and changes your results” published on Nov 15 2019. Google definitely hides what it doesn’t want us to see.
I searched earlier and found articles on covid-19 spike proteins diffusing into the nucleus. I didn’t learn my lesson about Google well enough and closed the page. When I wanted to bring the article back, no matter how much I searched, all the results I get from Google are about the covid vaccine protein spikes and not one article is coming up about covid-19 protein spikes! I had to use a lot of tricks with using many different terms to finally bring the article back. Google for sure knows to hide stuff they don’t want people to see and push the things they do want people to see.
Now with everyone focusing whether the covid shots mRNA enter the nucleus or not, this seems to be a hot topic people are researching cause there are tons of articles Google is spitting up how covid shot mRNAs don’t enter the nucleus, how about the fact that proteins enter the nucleus? So spike proteins produced by the covid shot can very well enter the nucleus but many articles claim that it doesn’t. Well, the covid-19 spike protein itself diffuses into the nucleus so I do not believe that the “vaccines” spike never enters the nucleus.
Phil -“Well, the covid-19 spike protein itself diffuses into the nucleus so I do not believe that the “vaccines” spike never enters the nucleus.”
You could believe what you want, but it’s not based on any Reality.
It really doesn’t matter if it actually enters the nucleus or not.
The only thing that would matter is – if somehow it changed the purpose of the cell.
From my previous post:
“If it did, they would have seen that with the First patients that were given the Vax.”
Btw, that’s what happens with real Viruses, (they take over cell reproduction), but it’s not my job to teach you Virology.What you are – is a Conspiracy Theorist – Not a realist!
There are problems with the Federal government response to this Pandemic.
I’ll name them for you:
1. The Feds let Pharmaceutical companies do what they want.
In this case – why aren’t they working on Vaccines for the Delta variant & other Variants?
2. Why aren’t they recommending Zinc & Zn Ionospheres?
3. Why aren’t they recommending Ivermectin?So Health, you tell me why they aren’t recommending these safe medications if they are effective and have no side effects. You tell me why the government, social media, and the MSM are pushing shots that are not lowering the covid-19 positive rates and in fact they are rising since they started injecting millions of people. Look at the charts, the rates were getting lower and lower, Israel was ready to open it’s borders and then they got this bright idea to give these experimental shots and look where it got them ..but call me a “conspiracy theorist”, it won’t change reality unfortunately.
philosopher,
this is like looking for a posuk in New York Public library catalog …ctrl-h opens your history and then you can search your history
you can also search medline, google scholar, researchnet, etc, for scientific articles instead of internet.Phil -“So Health, you tell me why they aren’t recommending these safe medications if they are effective and have no side effects”
I just addressed this.
Read my post #1999512.“You tell me why the government, social media, and the MSM are pushing shots that are not lowering the covid-19 positive rates and in fact they are rising since they started injecting millions of people. Look at the charts, the rates were getting lower and lower, Israel was ready to open it’s borders and then they got this bright idea to give these experimental shots and look where it got them ..but call me a “conspiracy theorist”, it won’t change reality unfortunately.”
You have to Stop Lying!
1. The reason Covid 19 rates started getting lower, is because people either got Covid or the Vaccine.2. Hashem makes diseases for a reason – if the world doesn’t change their Behavior & do Teshuva, he continues with the Disease.
Because the Antibodies don’t last very long & the Vax doesn’t really cover the Delta variant, we are now in the Pandemic Again!If you don’t like the Google results, you can always use Bing. Barring that, you can go for the Commie ones, Baidu and Yandex. I find the Russian Yandex to be an excellent source when looking for misinformation about COVID. Putin has been working overtime to make this stuff very available for anyone who wants to look.
Health, I agree with you that Hashem sent covid-19 as a wake-up call.
I believe if you had a good excuse why the government, MSM, and social media are suppressing info on these lifesaving drugs you’d repeat that here. I’m not going to look up an old post. Imagine if I would reference my old posts when someone asks me about something I’ve spoken about…you’d see a lot of ###.
Why is it so easy for you to roll off your made=-up “data” despite reality being completely different?! And calling me a liar while you are totally clueless. The CDCs published an article on August 6 the CDC published an article stating that the numbers of positivity rates are increasing. All the charts are indicating cases are rising, everyone is talking about it but you denying it? Sorry, you can’t change reality by calling me a liar or “conspiracy theorist”.
Phil -“I’m not going to look up an old post.”
LOL.
It’s right above yours on 8/12 at 9:20.
Stop Manipulating!“The CDCs published an article on August 6 the CDC published an article stating that the numbers of positivity rates are increasing. All the charts are indicating cases are rising, everyone is talking about it but you denying it?”
I never denied it!
I explained it.
The reason is because of the Delta variant, which Mostly isn’t covered by the Original Vaccines!Health, you didn’t answer my question why the government, msm and social media are suppressing info on medicines and zinc that help treat covid-19. Saying that “there are problems with the Federal response to covid-19” doesn’t answer why there’s censuring of this info and it being called “misinformation” when doctors and laymen talk about it. Again, by you calling it a problem you still give no answer on why they are going to these extremes to suppress vital, life-saving info.
The numbers did not go down because of he vaccines. If it did then why are they continously climbing? You blame the Delta varient but the point is that the vaccines are not working. There have been many varients since the original covid-19 high the “market”. I highly doubt the origin varient from last January-October is still around besides for in labs. Viruses are mutating constantly and if the vaccines don’t work for the mutated varients then there’s no point in it.
Phil -“Health, you didn’t answer my question why the government, msm and social media are suppressing info on medicines and zinc that help treat covid-19….Again, by you calling it a problem you still give no answer on why they are going to these extremes to suppress vital, life-saving info.”
I’m not the Government Spokesman.
Go ask an Elected official or s/o who works for them!“Viruses are mutating constantly and if the vaccines don’t work for the mutated varients then there’s no point in it.”
There’s a point – it creates Antibodies.
But the Government should persuade the Pharmaceutical companies to make vaccines that work directly on the Variants!Health, good for you for believing in this good government that has been nothing but a blessing to us and continues to rejuvenate the economy, make sensible reforms and secure our borders. You believe in them unquestionably, telling me to ask these elected politicians, to ask the MSM and to ask social media why they are repressing vital info … There are many people who don’t need to ask questions that have obvious answers.
Vaccines are SUPPOSED to create antibodies. However, disregarding the fact that these cell-based “vaccines” have not been through long-term studies and we can’t know the long-term affects and disregarding the fact that these shots do not have long-term efficacy, viruses always mutate and no one can predict what mutations they will have and therefore pre-emptive shots cannot be produced. So when we are talking about measles and mumps, those are predictable, generally unchanging diseases and therefore the vaccines created in response to these diseases, work. However with viruses like the flu and covid-19, they mutate constantly and therefore the shots against them are virtually useless.
>> However with viruses like the flu and covid-19, they mutate constantly and therefore the shots against them are virtually useless.
Phil, Covid vaccine developers took that into account. Covid mutates less than flu and there are certain features that Covid virus needs to have in order to be effective. Vaccines were developed to attack multiple patterns like that. Variants seem to decrease vaccine effectiveness but not fully. Level of antibodies does not fully account for the whole immune system, such as T-cells. Real-life data is more indictive. This month Israeli data – seniors have 7x less hospitalizations with vaccine months ago v. those who do not. So, this is a 2x decrease from 15x as in Phase 3 against original virus, but still substantial effect.
health > But the Government should persuade the Pharmaceutical companies to make vaccines that work directly on the Variants!
so far, response was that they are tracking it and testing new vaccines but for now the original vaccines are sufficient. Maybe this takes into account difficulty of changing manufacturing process that is quite complicated.
Always ask, as you can see, it’s a 2x decrease in these approximately 2-4 months. So what happens when a few months go buy and eficacy totally diminishes? People will need booster shots every 2-4 months! I am assuming you read what I think about booster shots but it’s silly to argue over it as nothing is proven yet. I am curious what will be with these continous booster shots.
AAQ -“so far, response was that they are tracking it and testing new vaccines but for now the original vaccines are sufficient. Maybe this takes into account difficulty of changing manufacturing process that is quite complicated.”
This I disagree with!
Every year they change the Flu vaccines to deal with the Mutants.
They could do the same thing with the Covid 19 vaccines.
It’s not more difficult than the Flu vaccines.
They don’t have to make New vaccines.
This Federal government is a Failure.
You as a Lib will defend it, no matter what.>> Every year they change the Flu vaccines to deal with the Mutants.
They could do the same thing with the Covid 19 vaccines.from memory: Flu vaccine is developed in a totally different, and a simpler, way, than Covid. They also need I think about 6 months for production, so they use early data from Southern Hemisphere’s winter to (imperfectly) predict what strain will happen during the winter. COVID manufacturing was set up in about 8 months completely anew and consist of several contractors each, and I would trust companies like Moderna and Biontech on weighting new v. old processes. The only government input might be – how much testing they would require for a changed vaccine: extremes would be requiring Phase1-2-3 as with a new one, or just saying it is a variation of the old one, so no testing is required. I would think if the companies had a new product, they’ll not hesitate press the government. So far, I did not see that happening.
health > You as a Lib will defend it, no matter what.
If you are addressing some other, liberal AAQ, in this group, then let him answer this question. I get enough flak her for my actual positions to answer the baseless one!
phil: it’s a 2x decrease in these approximately 2-4 months. So what happens when a few months go buy and eficacy totally diminishes?
A good Question! I looked up plots for several vaccines and it seems that it is generally NOT declining at the same rate (2x every 4 months). Instead, it goes down rapidly for some months and then approaches some lower limit. for example, rotovirus vaccine for children starts, in rich countries, at 98% and goes to 95% in a year, and stays at 90% for 5 years. In poor countries, it starts 65%, down to 40% in 1 year, and down to 30% in 5 years. Guessing, because antibodies go down quickly, but acquired T-cell immunities stay long-term.
Anyway, if most people will vaccinate while vaccine are working well AND population will keep some caution for a while, then, the overall disease level will be low, and less or no boosting will be required. Conversely, if any time the virus goes down, people will stop vaccinating and start partying, then virus will stay at medium level – going down when peo0le are scared, and going up when people are relaxing. Exactly what happened in April-July – and we are all in a worse condition because of this.
AAQ -“just saying it is a variation of the old one, so no testing is required.”
So why aren’t they doing this?
Incompetence?>> just saying it is a variation of the old one, so no testing is required.”
Health> So why aren’t they doing this?First, as I explained, it seems that manufacturers are not yet requesting it, seeing that the current vaccines are still useful. Biontech founder talked about this recently. Google it for more details.
Second, I outlines two extremes, I don’t know which one is more reasonable. If they follow a permissive one, some would immediately say “untested”!!
In my, not fully informed, opinion, there could be more careful experimentation within the ongoing vaccination: try slightly different doses, slightly different schedules, to gradually build knowledge of what works better without doing much harm.
Mortal, how about I take your title a step further by saying:
“I’m considered anti the entire system of U.S.A. (Unhealthcare Sickcare-of America).”
…I’m considered pro genuine health innovations such as stem-cell tech. The latter partners with G-d’s creation, as compared to robotic appendages, AI, or chip implantation, which are the modern equivalent of the Dor Haflaga.
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