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apy wrote:
Your 17, in college and dont have the guts to quit, working in (based on the discussion here) a remote basement where it is just you and the doctor, or at times,
I am addressing halacha. Which is what she asked.
Reread the OP. She also asked if it is safe.
SGG, it seems that you already have certain doubts about the situation, both Halachic and safety, which caused you to start the thread.
There is a specific story coming to mind which didn’t end pleasantly and based on the information you’ve posted, this is making me very uncomfortable. Please discuss this with a rav, parent, teacher, adult relative etc ASAP.
(Assuming this is real as the mods have not mentioned otherwise)
Kapusta: The mods don’t have Ruach hakodesh, or do they???
The situation seems off, or at least unusual, and unless she explains a bit more (why she took the job to begin with, what her parents knowledge and input has been, why the doctor is out while the patient was in [lunch break maybe] why she thinks there are no other jobs out there for her etc.) I’ll retain my suspicions.
SL -“apy wrote:
Your 17, in college and dont have the guts to quit, working in (based on the discussion here) a remote basement where it is just you and the doctor, or at times,”
Thank you.
Here it is again:
“apushatayid
official spokesperson for the CR mods
Your 17, in college and dont have the guts to quit, working in (based on the discussion here) a remote basement”
This CR is becoming like a Soap opera!
People make up stories to keep it interesting!
This is why I posted previously – they make mountains out of a molehill!
See, I didnt claim she was working in a basement, or that the OP made such a claim. I referred to all the previous comments to mine, that the OP didnt refute, or didnt comment on when I wrote my little summary. I still stand by what I wrote, until the OP refutes it (presumably trolls know how to read, not just write, but perhaps I am making too many assumptions about trolls). The OP is a 17 year old girl working alone with a male doctor who apparently has very few patients since it is just her and the doctor all day. The original question appeared to be a halachic concern, which also became one of safety to which the OP finally commented and added, she is also worried about peoples perception if she decides to quit.
So, taking it to the logical conclusion, if there are valid halachic as well as safety concerns this office must be off the beaten path where there is noone else, where there is no chance, even a small one apparently that other people may walk through the door, giving credence to the possibility of a halachic concern of yichud, and others concern for personal safety. If this office was out in the open somewhere, with large bay windows, or in a medical building with other offices and people coming in and out, then the yichud question is that much smaller (leave the door to the practice open?) and the question of her personal safety is that much smaller too. Of course, why assume, surely our 17 year old can read (otherwise who would give her a job in a medical office, except a creep, in which case she should be concerned for her safety, but I digress), perhaps she can provide additional details. Perhaps she can also explain why she has not commented about those who asked whether she discussed this with her parents of family Rav (or any Rav).
APY -“Perhaps she can also explain why she has not commented about those who asked whether she discussed this with her parents of family Rav (or any Rav).”
That’s the point!
Certain things are appropriate for the CR. Her topic shouldn’t be here!
The gemara says that doctors go to gehinom. So I wouldn’t trust him.
“This CR is becoming like a Soap opera!”
It really is. I can’t wait to hear what happens next
Only “Tov Shebirofim”. How good could this one be if he has no patients.
you should quit, this is a very dangerous situation. The One Above will provide, the yetzer hara is telling you to stay and saying you need the money.
karlbenmarx -“you should quit, this is a very dangerous situation. The One Above will provide, the yetzer hara is telling you to stay and saying you need the money.”
The decision what to do in this situation, should be made by her parents, mentors, and Rabbis.
Not by some anonymous posters!
Sadgirlygirl – perfect. since your in college just say that you got too busy with your classes. no one will question you then.
On the other hand a job in a medical office with no patients is the perfect place to do school work. Lots of quite and free time. True the doctor would have to ok it she is being paid, but if he is somewhat a mentch why would he say no when she asks?
apushatayid – unfortunately the doctor isnt a lady doctor so its not tznius to be there with him alone all day long.
Way too much speculation going on in this thread. I think we need the OP to chime in and give us an update
“unfortunately the doctor isnt a lady doctor so its not tznius to be there with him alone all day long.”
Thank you for your psak.
“I think we need the OP to chime in and give us an update”
Trolls dont update.
Health: “karlbenmarx -“you should quit, this is a very dangerous situation. The One Above will provide, the yetzer hara is telling you to stay and saying you need the money.”
The decision what to do in this situation, should be made by her parents, mentors, and Rabbis.
Not by some anonymous posters!”
True, but if she is asking online, obviously, she doesn’t have someone reliable to ask, so we have a responsibility to “Al Taamod al dam raecha”.
Many 17 year old girls do not have anyone they feel comfortable asking questions to, and even when they do, the person may not be reliable. But if she can find a reliable Gadol or Rav who is accessible to ask, that would be the best of course!
LU -“But if she can find a reliable Gadol or Rav who is accessible to ask, that would be the best of course!”
What does it mean Asseh Lechah Rav?
Let her look for one!
Her parents?
Apushatayid, they might not be the best people to ask. Chances are that they are not since she didn’t ask them.
Health – you are right in theory, but l’maaseh, it’s not always so easy to know how to find someone especially for girls.
LU -“Health – you are right in theory, but l’maaseh, it’s not always so easy to know how to find someone especially for girls.”
Since G. Bell’s invention, most Rabbis have them!
She’s on a computer, let her do a search for Orthodox Rabbi in her town.
It’s not that difficult, no matter what you say!
Health: “She’s on a computer, let her do a search for Orthodox Rabbi in her town.”
That is NOT a good way to look for a Rav!!!
you know, health, sometimes the way you talk to people is highly unsettling. Here is a girl stuck in a difficult situation. If she has nobody to turn to and doesn’t feel she can turn to her parents, then she is obviously in need of an extra hand, not a harsh one. I don’t know if this person or her problems exist, but your tone is not appropriate for this situation. And if you really do have daughters, I sure hope you don’t address their cries for help in that way.
Also, not all Rabbanim are so accessible – you have to know which ones are and at what hours. Some Rabbanim have their wives screen their calls and that can be awkward and annoying. Not all Rabbanim are reliable. Some Rabbanim are reliable for straight halacha questions but not issues involving hashkafa. Some Rabbanim are not the personable type. Some Rabbanim are impatient and don’t have time or patience to listen to a teenager’s stories. You can’t just pick up the phone and call a Rav – you have to know who to call.
Tachlis – Rav Shmuel Kaminetsky is a Gadol and very accessible and patient, and his number can be found on-line. He is reachable both at home and in his Yeshiva.
Your right, its way better to ask anonymous strangers for a ruling in halacha and advice about personal safety than to look for a rabbi in the phone book and call him up.
“She’s on a computer, let her do a search for Orthodox Rabbi in her town.
It’s not that difficult, no matter what you say!”
Terrible things have happened to people who did just that! Definitely not advisable!
LU -“That is NOT a good way to look for a Rav!!
Also, not all Rabbanim are so accessible – you have to know which ones are and at what hours. Some Rabbanim have their wives screen their calls and that can be awkward and annoying. Not all Rabbanim are reliable. Some Rabbanim are reliable for straight halacha questions but not issues involving hashkafa. Some Rabbanim are not the personable type. Some Rabbanim are impatient and don’t have time or patience to listen to a teenager’s stories. You can’t just pick up the phone and call a Rav – you have to know who to call.”
Whatever it is, it’s better than asking advice from some anonymous posters!!!
Your right, its way better to ask anonymous strangers for a ruling in halacha and advice about personal safety than to look for a rabbi in the phone book and call him up.
You’re sarcasm may be out of place. I didn’t say you should ask anonymous strangers for a halachic ruling but you know as well as I do that the anonymous strangers are made up of some trolls, and some real, genuine, kind hearted people. From the feedback you get it is possible to see if your thoughts are ridiculous, or if others are agreeing with you. or if lots of people even find it to be critical. That “anonymous advice” can give a timid person the confidence they need to stand up and ask a question that they thought they might be ridiculed for.
You need to read between the lines. Like i said, this may be a troll-post, but if someone is in such a situation and feels like they cannot present it to anyone around them for fear of being accused of being a quitter, that has to tell you something about their surroundings. Bringing up a question anonymously can still take great courage for those people and even anonymous support can give a person strength.
I have asked certain questions here anonymously, knowing i would need to ask a rav, but still wondering if the question is as embarrassing as it feels, or if maybe there are others who have encountered these situations.
LU -“Terrible things have happened to people who did just that!”
Please tell me about the terrible things that happened to people who advertised in phone books as Rabbis?
SL -“And if you really do have daughters,”
And what does this mean?
as some random anonymous poster I have no idea what you have. For all i know you are some 19 year old mormon with 10 wives pretending to be an older divorced jewish medical guy with kids. hey, this is the internet.
Just a couple of points about ????? ???? that seem to have been overlooked in this thread.
1. According to ????? ?? ??? ????????? ??”?, the ???? of ??? ???? does not require that the door be physically open, just that there is an expectation that it will be opened when the bell is rang.
2. If I recall correctly, in a situation of ??? ?? ??, the ???? of ??? ???? is not operative. I don’t think there is any doubt that an employer is ??? ?? ??.
“I don’t think there is any doubt that an employer is ??? ?? ??.”
Really?
Who do you work for?
SL -“as some random anonymous poster I have no idea what you have. For all i know you are some 19 year old mormon with 10 wives pretending to be an older divorced jewish medical guy with kids. hey, this is the internet.”
Here is a quote of yours from the other topic:
“sparkley – do you kinda make this stuff up as you go along? Just curious”
Let me change it a little:
Syag Lchochma – do you kinda make this stuff up as you go along? Just curious?!?
did i make up that random profile? of course. and i didn’t pretend i didn’t
Syag is one of my alter-egos.
heavy on the “alter”
We’re enjoying talking to ourselves here.
??? ?? ?? denotes nothing more or less than a familiarity which mitigates the natural mutual boundaries which exist between strangers of opposite sexes.
For example, one’s mother in law is considered ??? ?? ??.
“I don’t think there is any doubt that an employer is ??? ?? ??.”
surely this is a typo.
apushatayid – so you hang out with the other gender? its not a psak to not hang out with the other gender most rabbis unless their mo say its not okay to hang out with the other gender. she might be embarrassed to ask her mother for advice.
lilmod ulelamaid – they can also be embarrassed to ask. it wasnt easy for me to find my rav since at first i thought he was too mo for me but then i decided to go to his speech and thats how he became my rav.
Health – i found my rav since his my parents rav and then i started going to his speeches.
Syag Lchochma – you are right! this world is scary:(
“”I don’t think there is any doubt that an employer is ??? ?? ??.”
Really?
Who do you work for?”
I don’t know whether or not “libo gas ba” applies to every employer, but a person definitely has to take more precautions with something that is a regular situation as opposed to a one-time thing. This is partly because you have a different relationship with them, whether or not it falls into the category of “libo gas ba”.
I’m going to venture a guess that some people here have a misunderstanding of the concept of ??? ?? ?? which stems from the fact that their first exposure to it was ???? ?????, and because it also appears in context of ?????? ???. It seems they believe it to connote a very intimate relationship, not merely a familiarity.
Comparison to a similar phrase employed by Chazal, “?? ??? ??????,” however, makes clear that this is erroneous.
It is obvious that the intent is a comfort level which erodes the normal boundaries, lulls the normal precautions, and which could lead to cavalier conduct.
In fact, it is explicit in ???? ???? (unfortunately, I can not provide specific references at this time, as I am away from home) that any relationship which results in such a comfort level is considered ??? ?? ??.
Certainly, this would extend to an employer/employee relationship, especially in such a small setting.
If the relationship between an employee and an employer is generally considered ??? ?? ??, I think I’m working for the wrong person
sadgirl- Way to go! and you have an awesome attitude, I have no doubt people are already working on their dan lkaf zchus/judgemental skills *cough*, good luck in your job hunt!
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