If you've read "NASI Project Responds", have you changed your mind?

DY – 🙁 C`mon I miss the good old days.

apushatayid

To the contrary- because the boys have a long list of names in their shidduch notebook,, the likelihood of a boy saying yes is much slimmer then that of a girl saying yes, so it makes sense to first see if the boy will agree to go out, before making the girl go crazy doing research just to have the boy reject her. The supply and demand equation is devastating for girls.

Ofcourse- “For example, if there are 500 older single girls and 300 older single guys (most of whom dont want to be limited to dating their age girls), the girls are stuck, any which way, whether they pay or not!!!”

True, however, if the 300 older guys marry 300 youger girls, than all 500 older girls are out of luck, whereas if they marry older girls, there’s 300 fewer older girls left behind.

A previous post from aries:

“Why is it that boys only want to date and marry younger girls. Here is one reason. They are NOT on the same intellectual level as girls their own age. A 25 year old boy is just getting their feet wet in the real world. Well not in the real world, but taking a few hours out of yeshiva learning for dating purposes. While girls their own age have finished college and are working for many years. They are educated, established and know what they want. They are NOT on the same level and would have nothing in common and nothing to talk about. They are not on the same intellectual or maturity level, so boys are looking for girls that are basically on the same level as they are.

Boys who are educated and are on the same level are NOT afraid to date someone who are at their age level or even older because they are looking for intelligent, educated and confident women who can keep up with them and their friends.”

Aries, I felt the need to repost your post because I agree with it so much that I felt it should be said twice. And maybe soon I’ll repost it again, because maybe it should be said three times. You are absolutely right.

popa, while that is true to an extent, I still think many many guys could be so much more responsible, mature, and ready for marriage than they actually are, if they put any effort into it at all.

Bein Hasidorim:

even i know how to cut and paste

FROM NASI

did you notice there is no address on the ad where to send money????????

NOT A PENNY OF A GIRL can be sent in (even is she tried) until the financials are set and airtight. Girls that are asking to join aer being told to not send in any money. They are in the process of receiving guidance from experts in the field (lawyers/accountans/ etc) how to set it up in a NO QUESTION ABOUT IT system.

A sytem that is trasparent, secure, with effiienct and trustworthy oversight.

once that is in place it will be publicized. Then and only then will girls be given instructions where to send the money.

NASI understood it would take a while until the program got traction. They assumed it would take a good few weeks until the first 50 singed up. During that time they planned and are working on getting the financials in place. This way it can all come togehter.

Why don’t we just eliminate the middlemen and just pay the boys directly for dating the girls? $200 bucks for taking out a 22 year old, $300 for a 24 year old, $500 for a 26 year old… Increase by $50 for each year of ascending age…

Father opens door, shakes shalom aleichem, and hands boy the cash as the carrot that brought him through the door. I think this could work.

Now that’s what I call Cash On Delivery.

AZ – so all you’re saying is that honesty isn’t the priority for you. Although, in reality, you don’t owe me anything b/c it was the first program, I would really warn anyone I know aobut entrusting your cause with thousands of $$$.

BSD, but the system has sent girls out into the real world. The system has sent girls to college to earn careers so that they can support their husbands. The system has educated the girls and left the boys behind. This is how the system has made them unequal and imbalanced. The system itself has kept these boys from growing and maturing.

As for NASI, I ask again, since I wasn’t answered, both sides have to pay shadchanus so why aren’t the fees for the boys listed as well? This would make it more palatable and fair for all? Obviously a 25 year old girl will not be set up with a young man younger than 27 so he is also considered an “alte bochur”. So why pick on the girls and make this just a girl’s crisis? If there are unmarried girls out there it stands to reason that there are unmarried boys out there, or what would be the point of this project? So be fair and post the fees for the boys as well. Let them sign up and you already have a pool of candidates.

BSD. I disagree. Since boys know they can take their sweet time and always have another name replace one that falls off his list, they do in fact drag their feet, holding up girls of any age, from dating in the process. If there is a “yes” from a girl, and he still drags his feet, he loses this chance and the shadchan will take the girl elsewhere. The point is to get girls dating and married.

DY, I guess we will have to disagree because the system does NOT teach the boys to respect their mothers, to help at home, to help prepare for Shabbos, etc. The system teaches the boys to expect and they will receive. How many young men pick themselves up off their chairs and lend a hand? They expect their mothers and sisters to do everything for them. How many young men help without being asked? How many young men offer to run errands instead of hang out with their own friends and concentrate only on their own needs and what “Mommy” can do for them? How many young men call their hosts before shabbos to see if there is anything they can help with, especially when they are regular guests?

Why aren’t they taught responsibility, respect, hakaros hatov? All values that would help shape them and help them mature and grow. By feeding them the concept “expect and you will receive” it just allows them to be immature and unrealistic.

please explain to me because I’m still not understanding , if the problem was the age gap that would mean the previous generations who did not have this problem all married people closer in age to them. We see this is not true. I think the problem is that it’s easier to be a good girl than a. good guy. Bais yaakovs have done a tremendous job convincing every girl that she needs a boy who will learn forever. This is what girls look for until they settle. Not enough guys want to be long time full time learners especially if girl cant support. how will marry close in age solve this problem

In Europe 10+ children was quite common. So there was certainly at least as much, if not more, population growth. And as others pointed out, there was an age gap there too, as it wasn’t uncommon for notably older bochurim (or even widowers) to marry considerably younger brides. So the question still remains, what’s new in the 21st century that makes this a new problem? The suggestion that the problem was simply ignored (or oblivious) for hundreds of years, and simply allowed to fester, doesn’t shtim.

After reading their so-called explanation in which they claimed to have turned around the negative opinions of their many critics AND compared themselves to Eliyahu Hanavi, I have come to the same conclusion as my original opinion. This is APPALLING, insulting, demeaning, and the most terrible example of mercenary greed I have ever heard of. Financially-strapped girls and their parents, do not stand a chance, even if I thought this idea had any merit whatsoever. And I do not.

oomis,

In an earlier post, I explained why I don’t think they’re comparing themselves to Eliyahu Hanavi.

In Europe 10+ children was quite common. So there was certainly at least as much, if not more, population growth. And as others pointed out, there was an age gap there too, as it wasn’t uncommon for notably older bochurim (or even widowers) to marry considerably younger brides. So the question still remains, what’s new in the 21st century that makes this a new problem? The suggestion that the problem was simply ignored (or oblivious) for hundreds of years, and simply allowed to fester, doesn’t shtim.

Lower childbearing mortality. I do admit that if 2% (just making up a number) of women die in childbirth, then the crisis would not exist (as is now).

Doswin, As far as pogroms, I don’t see any reason to speculate that the antisemites targeted men over women.

I see you’re missing my point. Age gap alone doesn’t account for a gender disparity, it’s only a factor if there’s also an ongoing population increase. The higher mortality rate, caused by a multiplicity of factors including pogroms, and incurable illness (both which don’t necessarily distinguish between the genders), would all contribute to a lower rate of population increase, and, hence, a smaller or nonexistent gender disparity.

Doswin “So the question still remains, what’s new in the 21st century that makes this a new problem?”

You are making a false presumption. I know from speaking with elderly family members from that generation that there was a major issue in di heim as well.

apushatayid “If there is a “yes” from a girl, and he still drags his feet, he loses this chance and the shadchan will take the girl elsewhere.”

Which girl hasn’t heard the following:

“We heard such nice things about the family, but the boy is busy, so tell her not to wait, if he becomes available (and she makes it some where remotely near the top of his megila of names) we will get back to you.” This way he has no pressure despite that she gave a yes and he still hasn’t burned his bridge. Meanwhile she did exhausting research and invested emotion and now feels rejected. Supply and demand dictates that the ball is in his court.

I do agree that it may move her higher on his list knowing that she already said yes, but it certainly does not put him against the wall.

If this is going to change we need to do something radical. (and at the same time proceed with caution so it’s done right)

Dear Moderator: I typed a rather leghnthy reply (approx. 4 hours ago) to multiple questions above, in this thread. It seems to have disappeared into a black hole. I don’t think there was anything remotely objectionable. Perhaps it was deleted in error? If there was s/t slightly off, perhaps you can edit the minor and post it?

Much thanks.

BSD,

Certainly, I didn’t mean that every yeshiva bochur has perfected his middos. I agree with your post.

Regarding the previous post, and whether there was a gender disparity issue in “di heim”, a few old-timers who may have recalled some alte meidlach does not convince me, but even if true, it’s really a side point. There are definitely more available girls today than boys, and whether or not this issue existed is irrelevant. I know some might argue that the gedolim of the past did not deal with the issue, but that’s a “kasha oif a mayseh” because our generation’s leaders have encouraged closing the gap.

granted. the shadchanim need better pay, but why on earth do they need it up front, and why is the girl paying both sides shadchanus.? and why that much? no one has answered that yet. I again, compare it to a real estate agent, she can either spend days and weeks on end showing me properties and i buy nothing at all, or she can take the time to get to know my wants and needs, and use her skill to show me properties that suit me to a tee, and i make a quick purchase, and she gets her commission. Its simple really… THe bigger problem, is the disconnect between the boys’ lists and girls sitting week after week without a yes. Thats the problem that needs to be solved, not forcing 20 yr old boys to marry 24 yr old girls which is ridiculous. at best!

I’m a 22 year old girl and I am on The List.and I’m okay with it! No I’m not horrified,disgusted,etc. Nor do I feel like an old maid. I simply saw the ad, and asked my Rav if if I should be doing this sort of hishtadlus. He answered a long answer, and said yes,based on todays crazy times in regard to shidduchim-sometimes drastic measures are necessary. And no one is forcing anyone to sign up! She who can and wants to-fine! Its horrible to bash something just because it LOOKS and SOUNDS insane. Give it a chance.there’s a good,smart man behind it. Someone who will get a lot of schar in olam habaa.

OfCourse, do you advertise? How do people know who the shadchanim are? is it only from word of mouth? I am sure there are many shadchanim out there but no one knows them, they only know the famous ones. Why not have a list of shadchanim posted on this website and on Only Simchas, on the g’mach lists, etc.