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gavra_at_work-
I would hope that once one reaches twenty they realize that they are not a youngster anymore and that they have to mature.
If not then I agree with you 100% that if at 22 (or 40 for that matter) they are still on the same maturity level of a teenager then they should not even be thinking about getting married.
But do either happen in the yeshiva atmosphere?
responding to those who claim this generation has unique issues … my two older boys, ages 24 and 22, are not even dating yet … and they are not worried, either … simply because the shadchan scene is such a scam in general … and personal introductions (through family and friends) is starting to be the trend, particularly where we live. we know couples who would not have met any other way … while there are many people who feel perfectly comfortable going to a stranger and submitting interview after interview on potential mates … other more homey types need the personal touch … and for many of the people we know, it has worked. it really pays to stay within the community … people have seen your children grow up and you have seen theirs … people can made a business out of anything … but your own child’s future and the future of their children should not be put in some fleeting stranger’s hands … there is tremendous strength in community … and my oldest son is now asking for three of his single friends from yeshiva … the old tried and true tactic that G-d will give you what you do for others … if he finds shidduchim for his friends, he is guaranteed Ha-Shem will give him his … and possibly even in that order …
as for the older single woman’s plight … my son’s rabbonim have recommended for years now that older women make the best choice … so there you have it … stay within the community, dump the shadchanim, encourage your single adult children to first help their friends find their mates … and teach your boys to go for the older girls …
Not one bit. There is still ZERO mention or discussion about demanding more accountability from our boys.
I’ve posted this before, but I think its worth repeating:
We do not have an “older girls / age gap” shidduch crisis
What we have is an “under qualified / under motivated” boys crisis. In other words, a quiality / confidence crisis.
So the only logical choice for a 25 y/o boy,is to date a girl 5 years his junior. To do otherwise, would make him look foolish
Solve the quality / confidence crisis,and you “solve” the shidduch “crisis”
What irks me is that Hamodia would publish an ad from a phantom place.
To all who don’t like Nasi’s approach:
WHAT’S YOUR APPROACH?
WHAT ARE YOU DOING ABOUT IT?
(other then complain)
And what is the opinion of older girls?
Let’s hear what they have to say.
Why is there no response to Lechayim120- Everybody seems to have conveniently skipped that one!
While their intentions are good, they’re missing the main point. You can offer all the money in the world, but if there are more girls than boys out there, it won’t matter. People say the age gap is to blame? Then focus on closing the age gap, not on getting shadchonim to concentrate on older girls.
Make a “freezer” for girls just like there is in Lakewood. Encourage girls to wait a few years before dating. Tell yeshiva guys that for the first 10 (or some other number) of girls they go out with, they must be within 1 year of their age. These address the cause of the problem.
JAM in that lies the problem, “men” who are forever students.
gavra_at_work-
I think you may be getting at one of the roots of the shidduch crisis.
Not one bit. There is still ZERO mention or discussion about demanding more accountability from our boys.
I’ve posted this before, but I think its worth repeating:
We do not have an “older girls / age gap” shidduch crisis
What we have is an “under qualified / under motivated” boys crisis. In other words, a quiality / confidence crisis.
So the only logical choice for a 25 y/o boy,is to date a girl 5 years his junior. To do otherwise, would make him look foolish
Solve the quality / confidence crisis,and you “solve” the shidduch “crisis”
And you never will, as long as the yeshiva system stays in place. So tell me, who cares if the boy is 19 or 22, if the boy is just as underqualified?
Your issue is a general sociological problem, that men are just getting more stupid. Read the article I originally posted on the thread (prior to this). Google “the atlantic all the single ladies”.
Maybe, just maybe it is the shadchanim running scared because they are either not doing their job properly or are charging too much money and people are finding other ways to make matching. They are running scared because their jobs will soon be obsolete. So maybe the NASI project is an idea to promote shadchanim. More and more local community groups are taking it upon themselves to do shidduchim. More cyber shiddich groups are opening. More shiddich clubs and shidduch weekends are having more success. Shadchanim are known for working thier “magic” on those who can pay and have the qualities that are easily sold such as money and yichus. Those are the clients they are looking for and they don’t really put much effort into other types of clients. In many cases that is why gilrs linger around to an older age. Because they put their faith in shadchanim who didn’t do anything for them. I have redt many shidduchim and although it is not easy, it wasn’t that difficult either. B”H i made one shidduch and it was for a family member. It is not a full time job like NASI makes it sound in the article. People are NOT available 24 hours a day. Furthermore, shadchanim don’t do the legwork and the investigating. All they do is set two people up and encourage them to go out with each other. They are phone people. They don’t check out references, speak to Roshei Yeshiva, or find out if anything on the resume is true. When they make a shidduch they are basically taking what looks good on paper and trying to make it work. Do they really remember the interview and the people behind the resume?
The shandchanim that really care about a couple are the friends and relatives that make a shidduch. They are the ones that put the most effort into a shidduch. They are the ones that really work the hardest and know the couple the best. They are the ones that can answer the questions and give the best guidance. They are the ones that can zoom in on a prospect and say “that’s the type” that’s what we are looking for. BINGO!
Why is there no response to Lechayim120- Everybody seems to have conveniently skipped that one!
Or you skipped OfCourse.
The need to encourage shidduchim which are closer in age has been extensively addressed in this forum as well as in many others.
Many attempts were made for the Kallah. How would you proceed?
Those of you who feel that it should be done without financial motives are encourage you to do your own shadchanus for free. Meanwhile, there are not enough shadchanim, so a program which encourages shadchanim with financial incentives is a worthy idea.
2) Is it true that NASI owes people money for the earlier program? Although this would be different, because the money is held in escrow with objective oversight, it would certainly cause great concern. I have emailed this question to NASI and await a response.
Okay, before I submitted this post I got a response.
I would like to add a couple of points to my previous post.
Many have apparently been insulted by this program, and I wonder if NASI considered that the reaction would be this way. Either way, they consulted with their advisors who felt that this was the proper thing to do, and the venom spewed (by some) against NASI is uncalled for, even if you disagree with the program.
BSD
To all who don’t like Nasi’s approach:
WHAT’S YOUR APPROACH?
WHAT ARE YOU DOING ABOUT IT?
(other then complain)
That’s your response! Because people are not doing anything other then complain, which in of itself is untrue, as myriads of people are redting shidduchim on their own, we should give money for a possible money scam. Your reasoning in nothing less then absurd.
I await your response.
One further thing, if I may.
The purpose of proclaiming to one and all that Nasi has the backing of Roshei Yeshivah and other gedolim would be to give it the authority and imprimatur of daas Torah, that the work which Nasi is doing is in line with our Torah way of life.
Oib azoi, since when are true gedolim afraid of saying this is the Torah view? Since when do gedolim take into account ‘mah yomru habaalei battim’?
Mimoh nafshoch: if they are coming altz daas Torah, let them say it loud and let them say it proud. If they are coming as laymen commenting on an issue without a clear Torah imperative one way or another, then their opinions are worth as much as mine and yours. Dos meint- gornisht.
Lechayim120, I don’t believe an older single has to be told how much a shidduch is worth to her or him. And if they have the money they will gladly pay the shadchan who brings them their zivug their weight in gold without having to be told to. So why does this NASI project thing they have to tell older singles they need to pay more to have a shandchan work in their favor? Isn’t that a bit like rubbing it in their faces? Nobody wants you, do you know how hard it is for us to find someone for you? You need to really pay us big bucks to put everyone else aside and make this worth our while.
That is really insulting. It doesn’t take more time to work on a shiduch for an older girl, you just have to swim in the right pool. You need to look in your source book for older guys, divorced guys, widowers and the like. You have to know that you are working in a different age group. It is NOT harder it is just working with different types of people. If you are working for learning types you are looking in that source category. If you are working with “working” types you are searching in that source category. Choose your specialty and let people know what it is. That way you attract the right clientelle. Stop interviewing everyone and then choosing the cream of the crop to work with. That is what shadchanim do. Sort of the way teachers used to treat students before uniforms where the norm. They would pick the cutest most well dressed students as their favorites. Well that practice has to stop. The first 10 clients that rings the bell, should be the ones they work on. And they shouldn’t take more until they settle these. They should just refuse to take on more clients until they have the proper time to give them. They should be calling other shadchanim, Roshei Yeshivas, Seminaries, High Schools and looking for shidduchim for their clients. They should not be taking on 100’s of clients until they get 2 that match. That is NOT what I call working.
DY – Is that you?!? Are you back? You are really missed here.
When I read of fine young single girls considering to pay $1000s to a shadchan I feel very upset.
I applaud NASI trying to come up with an idea to get shadchanim involved , but is this money motivated approach healthy? How terrible for girls to ” invest” in their chosson financially before they are even married, not such a great basis for a marriage.
What about increased activity from local communities? I really urge people who are able to help to do so! Try! It is not difficult. Every other month I host shabbat lunches/teas and invite singles over, so do my friends. It works! No one feels pressurised, no one G-d forbid pays, we the hosts are happy to follow up queries , making a call etc
It is a pleasure. Please every mother with a married child think of others! I started doing this when my eldest daughter married, I felt upset thinking about her gorgeous friends who were single. Once you manage to break the ice, young people talk naturally, without a shopping list of PRE-CONDITIONS!
Everyone knows that both the boys and the girls have to pay the shadchan so why doesn’t NASI post the cost to the boys as well as for the girls. There are many, many older boys hanging around as well. Go check out the Upper West Side. Ask parents about their older sons. Ask about the young men who walk out on their families because they changed their minds. Stop holding these young men up on pedestals. THEY are the ones REQUIRED to marry. Girls are the ones with the biological clock who want to get married. So really the problem here is NOT the girls it is the boys and the onus is on the Roshei Yeshivas and what they are teaching them about shidduchim and marriage.
A young mad of 25 should NOT be redt girls of 19. So why are shadchanim and R”Y allowing this practice? Why is the boy’s Rebbe NOT telling him this is wrong. Why isn’t he being told that he should date closer to his age? This is where it starts. If he starts dating at 22, he should be dating 20 and 21 year old girls. If he starts dating at 25, he should be dating 23 and 24 year old girls. As the boys get older and are not married they should be dating older girls and not the same age as they started with.
Der Geller,
No, not every shidduch which actually takes place is a fulfillment of the bas kol. Bechira very much plays a role.
Der Geller,
The concept of “bashert” is not a simple matter. When someone gets married is it guarenteed that it their bashert?? If it would, we could throw away Meseches Gitten, chas v’sholom!! People can and do marry others besides their bashert. The concept of bashert is based on the potential one has to be from birth. Who he will actually marries depends largely on what became of him until this point. (Its a gemara, “kahn b’zivvug rishon, kahn b’zivvug sheini”). It is quoted b’shem the Steipler that only two people in all of Lakewood married their “bashert”.
So to answer the question your question, yes, we believe in bashert, it just doesn’t play a realistic role in our marriage decisions.
From NASI
re; the first program from a few years ago
Dr Geller:
I would like to respond but i’m simply not sure what to start so here are a few points.
1. we believer in bechira
2. G-D doesn’t “want” there to be hundredrds and hundreds of girls with know chance to marry. He “simply” allows us to run our lives and our society (within reason) and doesn’t necessarilly intervene to save us from the disastorous results of our own decisons.
3. G-D didn’t dictate that boys should start dating close to 23
4. G-D didn’t dictate that girls should start datng around 19
5. G-D didn’t dictate that boys who start dating at 23 should do shidduchim with girls who are 19.
6. What happened to the ploni of all the bas ploni’s who are above age x and have (biderech hateva) no chance of ALL getting married. (individuals each have opportunities, but collectively it’s impossible in our present state of affairs.
Dr. Geller: Please let me know if I need to go on. Please don’t bother attempting to understand the NASI Project in general or this specific program in particular until you understand these concepts. In fact the overwhelming majorit of negative feedback is simply based on a misunderstaning of the stark devatating petrifying reality on the ground.
Note to all: there is a effective proposal in palce to sovle the crisis once and for all going forward, and help if not all but vast vast numbers of the girls who are above age x.
Unfortantetly the powers that be continue to take time to bring those changes to fruition. They are simple, they are minor and the impact will be nothing short of collasal and earth shattering.
The outpouring of raw emotion that this new program brought forths (though it was NOT the attention to in any way hurt anyone chas v’shalom) is actually a bracha gedola.
This very same anger, venom, pain, agony, hurt, desperation, panic that has been brought forth this week and misdirected towards the project that has been toiling yomam v’loila for 4+ years now, will a small small small number of people, with minimal assistance from media outlets, to ease and alleviate in any which way possible the plight of these precious bnos yiroel, that AWESOME power, will now be channeled in the proper direction to bring about the changes that are so easy to do.
Now the the best news for all you CR folks. The day that happens, is the day the NASI Project closes up shop and i will then retire from this forum.
Have a wonderful shabbos
Do not let those older frum girls go! We have to make them feel wanted and appreciated, not swept aside and undervalued.
And as for the girls themselves, try and think outside the box, sorry to sound patronising but if someone makes a suggestion or gives you an invite, go for it, honestly you have nothing to lose. If you are a great girl nothing can take your dignity and self esteem, but do not shrug off those not ticking all your boxes, sometimes they can be most interesting of all. As for age differences, an older man who has been divorced or widowed can offer better appreciation for a young woman than a fussy young boy, think about it .
AZ and Zaidy78,
First, thanks for your thoughtful and respectful replies.
I am well aware that we have bechirah, and that we have the power in our hands to do away with this crisis if we so choose (if indeed this is the solution). However, this is only in terms of going forward, of the choices we are to yet make. If you feel that narrowing the age gap is the necessary solution, then yes, pursuing it is by no means contradictory to bashert.
But I wasn’t referring to that. I am referring to the rather inflammatory stance of Nasi which suggests that due to our choices until now we are somehow at fault for the current situation, that the marriages between older boys and younger girls WHICH HAVE ALREADY BEEN DONE are not what the Aibishter wanted, that we have done wrong in doing so.
Is this what Nasi believes? Please clarify.
I would appreciate it you could also respond to my point regarding what the author of the Nasi response implies is the cowardice of the gedolim ch’v in not proudly standing up for the Torah view.
So to clarify, it is entirely possible that the age gap is the root of our crisis and that this plan is the solution. If so, let’s implement it without delay.
But we cannot and must not ever point to a happily married ben and bas Yisroel and say, ‘you caused this.’
Ofcourse in answer to your question, I would consider for my girls a possible match with a boy up to 10 years older, and for my sons a girl up to 5 years older.
I would never DELIBERATELY SEEK an older match, but if my child was finding it hard to meet the right person, I would suggest greater flexibility age wise. I am indeed a proud mother !! I want my children to be happy, settled and Torah true, we all do don’t we, for me that means looking at the individual not the package and social expectations.
It is hard to meet the right person and dealing with communal expectations make it even harder.
Der Geller:
The way I see it, the Gedolim have conflicting goals as regarding what needs to be done for Klal Yisroel (for a simple example, pay for yeshiva and learn in Kollel). Sometimes a tough choice needs to be made for the best of the Klal, and one ideal is prioritized, even though there are others that will lose out.
Social engineering? Machiavellian? Maybe. But there have never been more learners and Kollel men since the Bais HaMikdash.
“But there have never been more learners and Kollel men since the Bais HaMikdash.”
Part of the problem might be everyone is looking to make a shidduch with a “kollel man” and not a “learner”. We have a shortage of boys because they are not “kollel men” rather they are “learners” and have been relegated to the trash heap of the shidduch world, some people call them “the modern guys”. Yes, we created a problem, we have eliminated many eligible bachurim from the available shidduch pool simply because they go to college, hold a 9-5 job or think about doing so. Yes, it is wonderful for your husband to learn 3 full sedarim a day. It is also wonderful to have a husband altogether, and if he learns for 2 hours in the morning before he goes to work and learns another 2 at night, did you also not marry a ben torah? Invite these bachurim to the shidduch island as well. Every single older (older than 28) girl that I know of who has gotten married in the last 2 years has married someone who holds a job. Are they being accused of settling? Do they feel that they settled? Ask them, dont take my word for it.
I heard that one prominent yeshiva (I wont repeat the name because I heard it from several people I believe to be reliable, but did not verify it so do not know for certain it is true) sits down with bachurim who are 25 or so and ask them point blank, ok, now what, and many are encouraged to get their degrees and perhaps even go to work depending on the direction of the conversation.
The Shidduch “Crisis” is a constant discussion in my home as my wife has many friends (of various hashkofos) who are still searching for their husband. So many people and organizations want to help, but I’m not sure any of us know how.
I am sure we have all identified causes, but I wonder how many of these causes are actually symptoms of the problem. For example (I know some may not agree with the age gap but for sake of illustration I am going to use it): Age gap – guys only want to marry younger girls so there are more girls who ‘miss’ their prime age. But perhaps this is caused by the stigma that an older girl receives once she ‘misses’ the ‘ideal’ age. It becomes very circular. And I won’t begin to mention that in the secular world most marriages are also comprised of an older man and younger women. Using this as only one example I think it is very hard to identify causes and effects.
The next point that often graces our table is the labeling as a “crisis”. I have heard that certain rabbonim refuse to use the word “crisis”. They feel that calling it a crisis is merely admitting a lack in emuna. At the same time I know many rabbis who privately will refer to it as a crisis but publicly will not. Have there been any gedolim who have openly come out and declared it a crisis? Do we have reshus to call it a crisis if they have not?
My third and final idea that I would like the Olam to consider and comment on, what are acceptable courses of action. As I said before without knowing clearly what the causes are it is very difficult to treat the problem. So what can we do to manage the symptoms? A member of my family is of the very strong opinion the barriers (mechitzahs so to speak) should be brought down. Bochur tables and single girl tables at weddings should not be across the room from each other. Or more mixed Shabbos tables to help break down the lack of communication. I disagree on this point and if someone would like me to explain why I will be happy to. Does shidduch dating need to be completely revamped? Perhaps the ‘rules’ changed?
I hope klal yisroel can quickly get throw this. Grow in our emuna bitachon and hishtadlus, and everyone who is searching for their bashert find him/her quickly. And we as a people can, as we have before, rise from this adversity and become stronger and more united as we prepare for mashiach and binyan beis hamikdash.
apushatayid:
OK. That very well may be one of the Chesronos of the path chosen.
“Please every mother with a married child think of others! I started doing this when my eldest daughter married, I felt upset thinking about her gorgeous friends who were single.”
I wonder the point in you using the term “gorgeous” about your daughter’s friends. Do you consider all of them to be gorgeous or are you only thinking about your daughter’s gorgeous friends and not the others? This I believe is one of the great problems we have, people are “working” for the “gorgeous” girls and not for the rest. Work for girls as people, not as gorgeous objects. The older the girl gets the less “gorgeous” they are considered so they get fewer people “working” for them.
HaQer you are quite right, I used the adjective ” gorgeous” when describing my daughters’ friends because to me they all are, I speak not of looks but of personality and potential. I should not have used such a superficial word- thank you for the correction.
What I simply mean is if we as parents have the pleasure of seeing our kids get married, we should try and help those around looking for their match too.
Clearly you are living on fantasy island.
Why is it that boys only want to date and marry younger girls. Here is one reason. They are NOT on the same intellectual level as girls their own age. A 25 year old boy is just getting their feet wet in the real world. Well not in the real world, but taking a few hours out of yeshiva learning for dating purposes. While girls their own age have finished college and are working for many years. They are educated, established and know what they want. They are NOT on the same level and would have nothing in common and nothing to talk about. They are not on the same intellectual or maturity level, so boys are looking for girls that are basically on the same level as they are.
Boys who are educated and are on the same level are NOT afraid to date someone who are at their age level or even older because they are looking for intelligent, educated and confident women who can keep up with them and their friends.
BEWARE: they still owe me thousands for their first “NASI project” whatever happened there, I don’t know. Just know that we applied, got a phonecall, but no money 🙂 This thing is screaming “SCAM” all over the place.
bestmommy,
In AZ’s post, he says that NASI claims that the original program only offered monetary compensation subject to availability of funds. According to that, if the funds are not available, they don’t owe you the money.
Since B”H some other people in Klal Yisroel have Sechal, I’ll save myself the heartache of typing a huge post against this new “Madoff/Nasi Ponzi Scheme, and post my favorite posts which are worth repeating, and reading.
artchill wrote;
The response is sillier than the idea itself.
(I know right?!)(being naive and desperate are a bad combination.)
1] Even the greatest Ponzi schemers had the guts to put their names and reputations on the line. With NASI, only e-mails speak! Then they are delusional to compare themselves to Eliyahu Hanavi?
2] The original statistics were later admitted were a fabrication to draw attention to their cause. Do you have more faith in the fictitious numbers posted here?
3] If the girls can afford to put such cash upfront, it almost guarantees that the boys will start their bidding sessions for support with higher numbers in mind. Another surefire way to ensure that the divorce rate continues to rise.
4] No mention was made which law firm, auditors, etc. will secure the escrow accounts to ensure that when a person wants to pull out of this scam, the money will be there. Madoff also said, “Trust Me”.
GIRLS: Have self respect and DON’T allow anonymous e-mails and their supposed rabbinic enablers place a bounty on your heads. DON’T go for this scam. (Listen to this guy)
Kshmo Kein Hu wrote;
So let me ask you this, Nasi…
(I like your tone already)
Why are you insisting on collecting the thousands before any list is even compiled, even after hearing the community outrage? Why can’t you just request $500 from every single which should more than cover start-up costs, and request the rest upon completing a shidduch… You don’t trust us Nasi? You don’t trust that the parents of an older single girl will pay due shadchanus when their beloved kid meets her bashert? Oh, ok but we should trust you, without a name behind your cause, without mention of the “prominent Rabbanim” you claim are behind you, without mention of where the money will be kept and who will oversee its financial handling. Oh. Ok.
So you chastise us Nasi. You are quite condescending when you tell us our money would not be that much better off accruing .025% interest in a savings account. So why exactly do you need this money? To invest? So you can earn the interest your telling us we don’t need? Quite interesting that you will not start the program without 50 respondents. Does the hedge fund require a minimum amount of capital?
Nasi, you have defenders. You have those who come out and say “well at least they are trying to help our yiddishe kinderlach.” Yes Nasi, trying to help. Through degrading ads, through an insane request for money that is not necessary to compile a list, through half-baked defense letters with embarrassing comparisons of a ponzi scheme to Eliyahu Hanavi.
I don’t know which is sadder at this point. If we found out you were crooks or if you really ehrlichely believe this is the way to go about helping.
I shudder to think what a chilul Hashem it would cause if the secular world caught wind of this and saw us treating our beloved daughters like cattle for market. If they saw an anonymous group of “helpers” demanding thousands upon thousands of dollars and making you feel guilty for even questioning. C’mon people wake up!
Uch and Vey to our society if this is what our shidduch initiatives need to look like. Uch and Vey that Nasi’s ad was even somewhat plausible to our messed up psyches.
(This one also smells the VERY unsubtle reek of fishiness)
bein_hasdorim humbly adds;
If any analogy should be made in reference to Eliyahu Hanavi, It should be that don’t EXPECT your money to be refunded until Eliyahu Hanavi comes.
“!??? ???? ?? ???? ?????” 😉
Firstly, wlcome back Daas Yochid- as always, your reasoning is presented clearly and logically (whether or not posters agree with you)
Just as a disclaimer, while I am very much pro the Nasi project, I do not represent or even know the people behind it.
chanie T. “Because people are not doing anything other then complain, which in of itself is untrue, as myriads of people are redting shidduchim on their own”
That is all good and well- however, it does not address the issue at hand because despite your good intentions we are dealing with an issue that is much larger than the solution you are proposing You are taking a problem of epic proportions and trying to solve it on a mom and pop scale.
More importantly, you are using a band aid rather than addressing the route cause of the issue. As I mentioned in a related thread:
The proportion of boys and girls born each year is close to even. (I believe it’e 51% girls and …well you figure out the rest)The problem lies in the fact that a boy will typically look for a girl that is 3 or 4 years his junior. Because of exponential population growth, this causes disparity in the boy to girl proportion.
To illustrate, in Lakewood there were approx 600 girls who graduated 8th grade. There were approx 1600 girls entering elementary schools. So even though there will be the same # of 18 year old girls as there are 18 year old boys, there will be alot more 18 year old girls then 22 year old boys. This reverse pyramid gets worse with each passing year.
So while I applaud you for doing yours, and halevei everybody would be so involved, what you are doing by “having single people in mind” it is not nearly as effective or as large an undertaking as what Nasi has taken upon themselves and I think we ought to commend them for that.
Der Geller- “I am referring to the rather inflammatory stance of Nasi which suggests that due to our choices until now we are somehow at fault for the current situation, that the marriages between older boys and younger girls WHICH HAVE ALREADY BEEN DONE are not what the Aibishter wanted, that we have done wrong in doing so.”
The aibashter created a world that runs by the laws of nature. Even nissim were combined with an attributable underlying natural cause so that we don’t lose our bechira (by krias yam suf it didn’t just split instantaneously-there was a ruach kdim aza kol halayla)
We are charged with the task of going about life according to those natural laws with the torah as our guideline- torah im derech eretz. So if something is not going well, we need to look for its natural cause and try to address it. We do cancer research for this reason rather then say this has already been done and is what the aibishtir wanted. Of course He wanted it, but he also wants us to do our utmost to address it which includes looking into ways we may be bringing it onto ourselves, rachmana nitzlan.
While I wouldn’t word it a strongly as Nasi did, because I think the current protocol of 22 yr old boy to 19 yr old girl is based on sound reasoning, never the less, as with any endeavor, we need to reassess our approach and tweak it as evident flaws in the system present themselves.
The one question I have for Nasi is that while their reasoning is sound, and one cannot argue with a mathematical equation, why is it that in the chassishe velt, there are more boys then girls?
BSD,
Thank you for the kind words (and real-brisker, thanks to you as well).
I don’t represent NASI, but I’ll answer nevertheless. There’s a simple reason for the fact it’s different in the chassidishe velt – the age gap is much smaller!
But there is an age gap never the less, albeit a small one, so at the very least, it should be 50-50. How do you account for a disparity.
DY – are you going to be hanging around?
People will pay after?? I know many shadchanim (not offical ones) who never saw a penny or even a tah nkk you note. ONe of my chaveirim was a shadchan and they did not even invite him to the wedding!! I was once promised a huge shadchanus if I find a mate for a difficult bachur and BH I did. NOT A DOLLAR or even shaveh peruta. When the girl became ill a year after marriage they called me to blame me and said I hid facts from them. Ingrates!! They never looked in a spiritual mirror to see who to blame. I don’t want anything from them…… but for people who are doing it as a lifes mission, to be guaranteed that the money is there is meaningful.
If the current system is so lopsided and advantageous to boys, why does the process start with the boys, why don’t shadchanim start the process with the girls, give them names of boys, let them give the first yes and so on?
BSD,
According to US Census,
http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2012/tables/12s0080.pdf
there are 105 males born for every 100 females. If this is also true for the Jewish population, we would expect that even with a small age gap (with the boys slightly older than the girls), there might still be more boys than girls.
In a previous thread, this statistic was used by one poster to erroneously disprove the age gap theory. He was wrong, because the yeshivish age gap is too wide, but the point has some merit.
real-brisker,
Not likely, but you never know.
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