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every jew no matter what will have a chelek in olem habah – techiyas hamasim, because he is a chelek aloka mimal mamash, which is eternal.
non jews who are chasidai umos haolem can get a limited schar.> they were created FOR the perpose
I wonder how all of these theories affect our behavior. Starting with sefer bereshis, we see avos interacting respectfully with all kind of people. Hopefully, you are following those examples.
Sechel, the Mishna in Sanhedrin disagrees with you. It lists the people who don’t get a portion in Olam Habah.
Only if they always observed the Sheva Mitzvos.
Sechel, please reread my post and menachems reply. The tanya doesn’t address the issue of chasidei umos haolam and their shoresh neshoma; the sefer menachem quoted, however, does.
My original point to you was that not every goy should convert, even if they are aware of the lofty spiritual level of a Jew.
From a Goys perspective, which is worse after 120: being a Christian his whole like without following the sheva Mitzvos or to convert to Judaism but later revert back to his old ways?
@avira, Never in history has a goy defiantly converted, Jews on the other hand did.
the Mishna in Sanhedrin disagrees with you [that every Jew will merit Olam Habah]. It lists the people who don’t get a portion in Olam Habah.
This is a complex and lengthy topic that deserves its own thread.
But see this letter which proves this idea with many sources, and answers regarding the mishna Sanhedrin:
https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=15875&st=&pgnum=174I wonder how all of these theories affect our behavior.
Hopefully, the idea that we are the purpose of creation should cause us to realize that as Jews our every single מחשבה דיבור ומעשה has infinite value and affects the entire cosmos. This is a tremendous privilege and responsibility, which is why we must try to put lots of thought into everything that we do: Is this really appropriate from someone who is the purpose of creation and the entire universe is being created for him to behave this way right now?
On the topic of a goy’s value in serving Hashem:
The Gemara says (Sanhedrin 3a): אפילו נכרי ועוסק בתורה שהוא ככהן גדול
A goy who learns Torah (referring to Torah about Sheva Mitzvos) is like a kohen gadol!
Meiri: מכבדין אותו אפילו ככהן גדול(However, a Jew who learns Torah is GREATER than a kohen gadol -Tosfos)
When Moshiach comes, the Rambam writes (הלכות מלכים ספי”ב): לא יהי’ עסק כל העולם אלא לדעת את השם בלבד ולפיכך יהיו ישראל חכמים גדולים.
The occupation of the ENTIRE WORLD (goyim) will only be the knowledge of Hashem, and the Yidden will have a deeper understanding.most goyim don’t care about all those issues, and if they would, they would move away, the properties in those areas are usually more expensive so they could easily sell up and buy somewhere else, but they hardly do as they generally feel safer it’s only when their children are priced out of the area then they decide to join them, so it can’t be bad at all
Menachem> Is this really appropriate from someone who is the purpose of creation and the entire universe is being created for him to behave this way right now?
Exactly, so you are not going to take advantage of the nonJew in any way, even when it is possible al pi din – say, he makes a mistake.
Exactly, so you are not going to take advantage of the nonJew in any way, even when it is possible al pi din – say, he makes a mistake.
Very true and important message.
Interesting to note from today’s Rambam (הלכות גניבה פ”ז ה”ח):
אֶחָד הַנּוֹשֵׂא וְהַנּוֹתֵן עִם יִשְׂרָאֵל אוֹ עִם עַכּוּ”ם אִם מָדַד אוֹ שָׁקַל בְּחָסֵר עוֹבֵר עַל לֹא תַּעֲשֶׂה וְחַיָּב לְהַחְזִיר. וְכֵן אָסוּר לְהַטְעוֹת אֶת הָעַכּוּ”ם בְּחֶשְׁבּוֹן אֶלָּא יְדַקְדֵּק עִמּוֹ שֶׁנֶּאֱמַר (ויקרא כה נ) “וְחִשַּׁב עִם קֹנֵהוּ” אַף עַל פִּי שֶׁהוּא כָּבוּשׁ תַּחַת יָדֶיךָ. קַל וָחֹמֶר לְעַכּוּ”ם שֶׁאֵינוֹ כָּבוּשׁ תַּחַת יָדֶיךָ. וַהֲרֵי הוּא בִּכְלַל (דברים כה טז) “כִּי תוֹעֲבַת ה’ אֱלֹהֶיךָ כָּל עשֵֹׁה אֵלֶּה כּל עשֵֹׁה עָוֶל” מִכָּל מָקוֹם:How did we morph from the original topic to the value of a goy?
all i said was that from learning chassidus i learned the value of being a jew, not just casue i get schar in olem haba which a goy – chasidai umos haolem – also get (according to some). if i was dealing with a goy who wanted to convert, i would do like the shulchan aruch says.
@83, so next time instead of hijacking a thread start your own thread about what you learned.
Sechel, which rishonim/achronim say that chasidei umos haolam don’t have olam haba? There’s a shita in the gemara like that if u remember right, but i never saw anyone pasken like it
This is happening now in the Catskills. Read the reports of the incorporation of the village of Ateres near Monticello. And Bloomingburg, about 30 minutes west of Kiryas Joel.
@avira. so you got me! nice attack. you cound’nt find anything better to attack me on? its a machlokes in gemarah sanhedrin 105. the rambam paskins they have. you’re right. now you finally convinced me to become a litvak,
Correcting someone isn’t an ‘attack’, but your unacceptable comments about litvaks is. Ahavas chinam.
I meant to say “if I remember right,” not “you”. Perhaps sechel thought I was telling him that he doesn’t know the gemara… Sorry if it came across that way
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