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If you were a non-Jew, would you want your town or city,
where you have lived your entire life, to become like Boro Park?If you were a non-Jew:
Would you want all the stores to be closed on Saturdays and Jewish Holidays?If you were a non-Jew:
Would you want kosher food stores,
where the prices are higher than for non-kosher foods?If you were a non-Jew:
Would you want public signs in a language that you do not understand?If you were a non-Jew:
Would you want all your neighbors to speak Yiddish or Hebrew?
And even when they speak English,
they use many words that you do not understand?If you were a non-Jew:
Would you want all your neighbors to be people who
are not interested in forming meaningful friendships
with non-Jews, or even talking to non-Jews?If you were a non-Jew:
Would you want to live in a place where most
celebrations and events are for Jews-ONLY?If you were a non-Jew:
Would you want to become a minority in
the place where you lived your entire life?If you were a non-married non-Jew,
would you want all your neighbors to be people
who you could never marry or even date?If you were a non-Jew:
Would you want to be used as a “Shabbos Goy”?Edited
ברוך שלא עשני גוי, וברוך שהציל אותנו מאפיקורסות
“If you were a non-Jew:
Would you want all the stores to be closed on Saturdays and Jewish Holidays?If you were a non-Jew:
Would you want kosher food stores,
where the prices are higher than for non-kosher foods?“I can go a few blocks over and buy stuff over there
“If you were a non-Jew:
Would you want public signs in a language that you do not understand?“If you were a non-Jew:
Would you want all your neighbors to speak Yiddish or Hebrew?
And even when they speak English,
they use many words that you do not understand?Ask the Hispanics that questions (or people that live in a Hispanic community)
“If you were a non-married non-Jew,
would you want all your neighbors to be people
who you could never marry or even date?“I don’t think people go around thinking “hey I really want to date my next door neighbor, if they want to date they go to a bar or those type of places
But really you don’t sound that much different than Haman
If you were a non-Jew would you know who Chanyana Weissman is?
If you were a non-Jew would you know who Hersh Kestin is?
If you were a non-Jew would you care what some Young Israel Rabbi said?
If you were a frum Jew would you care less about any of the above?Ethnic neighborhood turnover is very common in America.
It has it’s pros and cons with every new group.
Some choose to stay others leave.
Where my grandfather grew up was once an Irish neighborhood, then Jewish while he was there, then black, then Polish, now Filipino (or something along those lines). Some neighborhoods change when more people move in and become much busier others are affected negatively as everyone leaves. Others are taken over by woke hippsters. Neighborhoods rarely stay exactly the same.SquareRoot what’s your point?
Are you crying boo-hoo that there’s a few places in America that goyim aren’t actually in the majority?
You are sounding a bit antisemtic; it’s like a borrowed xenophobic rant.The big question is would you want your city council to become majority Jewish? 😂
Postville IA is an interesting case of this, chasidim came into a predominantly white German Lutheran small town and it upset a lot if people. I think they are getting around to somewhat of an understanding now.
A speaking as a previous non Jew it gives me great pleasure to have all the above. I was in boro park just today and enjoyed my time there.
It really sounds like the OP hates the above mentioned list of facets more than the goyim do as they take tours just to see it for themselves.
I once jokingly asked a Chinese restaurateur whether he finds it hard to deal with such clientele. He said – no, it is great, customers do not get into fights and pay their bills …
But, seriously, hope everyone here behaves so that their non-Jewish neighbors invite their friends to see what real chesed is.
SR (OP): If you’re embarrassed to be a Jew, just come right out and say so. No need to itemize every part of being Jewish that you’re embarrassed about.
In prewar Europe there were many towns that were majority Jewish. And many Goyim there spoke Yiddish.
commonsaychel: Did the SR get the drivel in the OP from Mr. Chanya Weissman? It would fit perfectly into the rubbish he regularly spews.
Q: If you were a non-Jew:
Would you want all the stores to be closed on Saturdays and Jewish Holidays?
A: All the stores? There are stores that have inconvenient hours and you work around those hours or they go out of business eventally. It’s called capitalism.Q: If you were a non-Jew:
Would you want kosher food stores,
where the prices are higher than for non-kosher foods?
A: Whole foods has higher prices than other stores that sell similar products so i prefer to shop elsewhere. Many people shop at Trader Joe’s, even though their prices are frequently higher and the stores are further out because the like the products. No one is forced to shop anywhere.Q: If you were a non-Jew:
Would you want public signs in a language that you do not understand?
A: There are lots of signs in Spanish. I was annoyed for a few years but eventually I realized that it makes sense to learn Spanish if you live in the USA. Duolingo is a good place to start.Q: If you were a non-Jew:
Would you want all your neighbors to speak Yiddish or Hebrew?
And even when they speak English,
they use many words that you do not understand?
A: in America, there are lots of people who speak lots of languages that the neighbors don’t understand. I had lots of people on my block speaking lots of languages.Q:If you were a non-Jew:
Would you want all your neighbors to be people who
are not interested in forming meaningful friendships
with non-Jews, or even talking to non-Jews?
A: Many people don’t have a meaningful relationship with their neighbors. I live in israel and am only close with a few of my neighbors.Q:If you were a non-Jew:
Would you want to live in a place where most
celebrations and events are for Jews-ONLY?
A: Sounds annoying but there are Halloween events, Xmas, Mardi Gras, Kwanzaa, Dragon events all over the USA and the Jews seem to be just fine.Q: If you were a non-Jew:
Would you want to become a minority in
the place where you lived your entire life?
A: Neighborhoods change. it’s annoying. It’s why there are no jews in South or West side of Chicago. At least in NJ, the locals aren’t chased out violently and they are selling their homes at way more than they would’ve ever dreamed.Q:If you were a non-married non-Jew,
would you want all your neighbors to be people
who you could never marry or even date?
A: Most people don’t marry the girl next door. It’s usually considered weird.Q: If you were a non-Jew:
Would you want to be used as a “Shabbos Goy”?
A: I don’t think that most non Jews find it offensive at all. Most people like to help. It’s not considered a lowly job. In fact, many Shabbos Goyim figured out that they can make money off of a basic service like turning off the lights.“Ask the Hispanics that questions (or people that live in a Hispanic community)“
To add to my previous comment, I guess you’ve never been in Chinatown where you wouldn’t be able to read the letters
Joe, there is a big difference between being embarrassed to be a Jew, and treating non-Jewish neighbors nicely.
There are plenty of issues with communities that have huge Jewish populations. The OP is right, that as the Jewish population grows larger, non-Jews are often squeezed out, because their quality of life declines.
There are towns with large Jewish populations that have signs up telling people how to dress. In a public street, you have no right to do that! (Assuming, of course, that the person doesn’t fall into the legal definition of public indecency.) If you’re a non-Jew, who has lived in a neighborhood for most of your life, would you suddenly want people telling you that the way you dress is not ok? How about if someone is hosting their family for a BBQ on a Saturday afternoon, and they’re playing music in the yard? In a place like Boro Park, do you think that would just be allowed to happen? Or would someone go over and ask them to stop playing that kind of music?
Then you can get into the issues of the public schools in smaller towns. Look at what happened in Ramapo – a huge Chillul Hashem!
Joe, you love to talk about the Shalosh Shavuos when it comes to Israel. Don’t forget the second one, not to provoke the other nations. Even if the Oaths are no longer in effect, it’s never a good idea to antagonize the people around you.And if you were a Jew, would you want this time of year to hear and see non-stop x-mas stuff? Nauseating !
DaMoshe,
How many town tell people how to dress. I’ve been in many predominantly Jewish towns here in the US and in only one place was the a “request”. It’s not all over the place. And that was by KJ, where i don not think you will find any non Jew who lives there. I doubt you are so worked up by another place that has dress protocols. Such as Jackets only, or no shirt no service.
As far as school boards, you seem so knowledgeable, what do you think actually happened in Ramapo? People exercising their right to representation? You sound like Peggy Hatton, who alleged that every Jew is a predator and then brough an actual registered s-x offender to “guard” against Jews. I know, because I saw this with my own eyes. This was clearly a case of blaming victims of vile antisemitism. You certainly didn’t hear any of ths from R Bender.Edited
you are talking about two different things,. There is one thing to not antagonize the goyim around you. That can include telling them how to dress, what music to play, or the volume it is played at, and such kinds of things. (It doesn’t mean that amongst ourselves we can’t kvetch.)
The examples that the OP gave are vastly different. Noone is asking them to conform to our way of life. We live our lives the way we see fit, and are not demanding that they change their way of life to conform to ours. America is a multicultural society. As long as we can get along somewhat amicably, everything can be fine. It stikes me that the issues that the OP raised, are issues that he personally has, not what he feels that the nonjewish neighbors have. (Perhaps with the exeption of neighborhood demographics change. But as we have learned through our own experiences, that is the way of things, all over not just in neighborhoods that are becoming more Jewish)@DaMoshe,
1. the non-Jews are not squeezed out, they sell the house for top dollar and move elsewhere, show me one area that went frum and the prices dropped as a result.
2. No one tells anyone how to dress except for Kiryas Joel and New Square and they are 100 % Jewish.
3. Live in a block in Chestnut Ridge that is half frum and half not and the BBQ happen all the time.
4. Ramapo was a huge kiddish hashem, highly capable frum elected officials.
editedsaychel, Ramapo was anything but a Kiddush Hashem.
There was the sale of the public school building to a yeshiva (or was it a Beis Yaakov?), which was blocked by a state court. The school had originaly appraised at almost $6 million, but the Jewish-run board of education got another appraisal for just over $3 million. The appraiser was later charged with a felony of accepting a bribe to supply a false appraisal, paid for by the Jewish school. The sale later was completed for $6.6 million.
There were charges filed against the Jewish school for buying religious books/seforim using public funds, which is illegal.
On August 31, 2011, New York State Office of the Comptroller released an audit of the Board, for the period July 1, 2008 to April 13, 2010. The report criticizes the district for a number of serious lapses including failing to put $2.4 million in professional services contracts out to bid, allowing three senior school board members to receive health care through the school district’s insurance pool after they failed to make $15,672 in payments, and failing to maintain proper inventory controls over $2.4 million in textbooks purchased for students not attending public schools, as required under state law. Most unsettling, the audit found that District officials inaccurately projected a June 30, 2010 fund balance of $13 million when preparing District’s 2010-11 austerity budget that was presented to the electorate and on which cutbacks and layoffs were based. In fact, the District’s audited financial statement showed a June 30, 2010, fund balance of $17,793,047, substantially higher than public estimates. The report states: “The board, along with district officials, failed to fulfill its stewardship, oversight and leadership responsibilities when it failed to establish a proper control environment, implement its own adopted policy and establish policies and procedures required by sound business practices.” The report concludes. “The deficiencies exposed district funds and assets to abuse, waste and/or loss.” The local paper headline was “East Ramapo bungled millions,” and in a scathing editorial, the paper called for a thorough investigation of the board.The erev rav are numerous indeed. They join klal yisroel when it is convenient for them, and then stab them in the back when things get a little tough or they must adhere to their first allegiance – goyishe values.
There are many erev rav people who wear fedora hats and speak yiddish, too.
We should use this thread as an opportunity to thank Hashem for the opportunity to live in a country that allows all ethnic groups to live freely according to their cultures and religions, thus allowing us Jews to live as proud frum Yidden in USA without any persecution or government interference (for the most part).
In the early years of the American Jewish community, many Jews thought that it would be impossible to do this. We would have to assimilate ch”v and live like the goyim, keeping our Yiddishkeit to the bare minimum. Even if keeping basic halacha, we would have to speak and dress and live like the goyim around us ch”v.
Yet, Hashem has allowed us to prosper as an authentic Jewish community even in modern America.
As the Rebbe Rayatz proclaimed when he came to America (to the shock and disbelief of many of his modernized American supporters): “אמריקא איז נישט אנדערש”@Da moshe, the local paper is a mouthpiece for Preserve Rockland so I would not take anything they say at face value, fact is before the frum takeover it was run by a bunch of illiterates who could not balance a budget if you paid them.
PS same holds true in your home territory of Lawrence Public and H/W Public.
PSS they hate you just as much even with the Kippa SerugaThe Kli Yakar in Parashas Shemos says on Penu Lachem Tzafono that in galus we should be hidden in order not to create our own anti-semitism.
If I were a goy I wouldn’t waste even one second on this site, and certainly not in the coffee room.
Just sayin.
Nobody ,Jew or non-Jew, likes changing demographics resulting in their group being a diminishing presence in the area and some other group that doesn’t share their interest or political values taking over.
That said it also depends on where and what the concern is. I understand the resentment in a place where the frum community is rapidly growing and demanding changes to the budget and zoning to accommodate them. In a large urban area where even if the frum community does take over one neighborhood they still won’t be a big enough voting presence to cause any changes to the lives of the people living just a few blocks away from them, the resentment is not justified.
Square Root, I agree with the moderators bold replies.
Whatever your intention, the way your original post was written was not ‘try to be sensitive to the feelings of your neighbors and the strangers in your midst’ and more of an ‘I hate foreigners’ rant.
Your post was directed specifically at those who live in Boro Park but this is not a community message board. As someone who lives out in goy-land, the specifics you complained of were small inconveniences that Jews living among gentile majorities everywhere else must deal with as well as a lot worse.
Perhaps because some of us have to constantly deal with these daily inconveniences and cultural suppressions what you said HURT US! We felt personlly attacked by your words. Everywhere else in America we are assimilated into nothingness until our Yiddishkeit is no more because of protecting the sensitive feelings of the gentile majority who think there’s some sort of war on xmas bc people now say happy holidays. Are you really suggesting to be sensitive to the feelings of our neighbors we should keep our businesses open on Shabbos and marry the goy next door??? Because that is what ends up happening everywhere else in America that is not fortunate enough to be a Jewish enclave.
“The point that I am trying to make is that G*D does not allow the Gentiles to make false accusations against Jews, until AFTER Jews make false accusations against each other.”
This is so incredibly rich, try looking in the mirror.PS no one ever accused you of being an apikurus, they accused you of being a Xenophobe, a self hater, a bitter alter bucher, spouting stupidity like haman.
PSS No one on my block calls the non-Jew on my block the Shabbos Goy we call him Bill and we invited him to the weddings when we make them.
I understood that was what square root was getting at however what I was trying to show is that if a different nationality of goyim came in to their neighborhood and did the same thing there wouldn’t be this much hatred
Additionally there are numerous out of town communities where this doesn’t exist however there are these hatred marches
If I were a Goy?? I think I would not know how quick I would get to a Rabbi to ask him what I have to do to become Jewish… Can you imagine, I live solely without purpose? You are living in Boro Park and you are blinded not to see the beauty of the Torah and a life with HKB”H. How could you live a day and not be Jewish? Hurry, there are yet few tickets available to Olam Habo and Olam Haze. It is still possible.
Any goy living in the proximity of frum Jews should dance for joy. Can you imagine being born in Saudi Arabia or China, you do not even know what a Jew is and will never be able to ask any questions (unless you are an Awraham Ovinu!).And btw there were more than one poster that didn’t attack square root, what I think he really meant that everyone except one person disagrees with him but it seems square root didn’t want any dialogue on the issue and just wanted to rant
“If I were a goy” was a song in Fiddler on the Roof”, but it was cut from the show. The producers were concerned that it would cut ticket sales to, Wii, goyim.
Levi365,
Do you honestly believe all Goyim live a life without purpose?
p.s. Not everything your 3rd grade Rebbi told you is true.Huju,
I was thinking of the same thing
“If I were a goy, I’d go biddie biddie bum all day long”
But I didn’t want to joke around in the beginning
Kuvult: Perhaps everything your third grade Rebbi told you *is* true, and you’d do well to not be such a skeptic.
If someone is a Goy, they have only two choices they must choose from:
1. Follow the Sheva Mitzvos completely and very carefully.
2. Undergo Genius and follow the Taryag Mitzvos completely and very carefully.
Fun game!!
“If you were a non-Jew, would you want your town or city,
where you have lived your entire life, to become like Boro Park?”– I would want a country where people are free to live where they want
“Would you want all the stores to be closed on Saturdays and Jewish Holidays?”
– I would want people to be free to open and close their stores whenever they want
“Would you want kosher food stores,
where the prices are higher than for non-kosher foods?”– I would want store owners to proice thier foods as they please
” Would you want public signs in a language that you do not understand?”
All Public municipal signs should be in english plus whatever language there is a need/demand for“Would you want all your neighbors to speak Yiddish or Hebrew?
And even when they speak English,
they use many words that you do not understand?”I would want them to speak whatever they want
“Would you want all your neighbors to be people who
are not interested in forming meaningful friendships
with non-Jews, or even talking to non-Jews?”I would want to be friendly with them
“Would you want to live in a place where most
celebrations and events are for Jews-ONLY?”
Private events can be for whoever is invited“Would you want to become a minority in
the place where you lived your entire life?”– I wouldn’t want other groups baned or restricted
Just becasue you are biggoted doesnt mean all goyim are, or more importantly that they should be.
Let me know if you have any other questions“If you were a non-married non-Jew,
would you want all your neighbors to be people
who you could never marry or even date?”– I wouldn’t want there to be some restriction that my neighbors can only be people I’d date, that sounds creepy to even suggest
Would you want to be used as a “Shabbos Goy”?”
sureUjm,
If you believe all Goyim live a life without purpose then I have a bridge to sell you. In my lifetime being exposed to many different types of people I can honestly (though sadly) say there are plenty of Goyim that are much better than many Jews I know.For all those who are sayin they would want to be a Shabbos goy when was the last time you were walking or driving down the street and were happy to stop to walk into some random strangers house to do something for him that you are so sure you would like be asked to do so repeatedly?
On a related note the proprietor of the “Shabbos guy business” in Lakewood said in a recent interview (that was clearly looking to drum up business) that as a teenager growing up in Lakewood he and his friends did not like that the frum community avoided then all week but all of the sudden Shabbos were calling them into their houses asking for favors
Ubiquitin,
You hit the nail on the head!
I would add: Would you want to be used as a “Shabbos Goy”?”
sure, especially when it comes with a glass of whiskey and a slice of hallee bread for my french toast.@kuvult
a jew is essentially diferent than a guy. the world was created bishvil yisroel, everything else besides jews were created for this perpose – yisroel and torah. a jew himself IS the purpose of creation. a jew is a piece of g-d.
after what i know in chassidus, i dont want to talk about myself in such a way, but a guy who would know what i have been privliged to learn, (its not really possible for a guy to understand achdus hashem and many other idea’s in chassidus the way a yid can but if it be possible) would defiantly become a jew.You don’t need to convince a nonjew that you are learning kabolah and he doesn’t. Just be a mench. Avraham was respected by neighbors not because of his special relationship with Hashem, but because he did chesed and derech eretz
If you only talk to them when you need to save a chicken 🐔, you are doing it not like avot did.US Secretary of State and General Colin Powell was a Shabbos Goy in the Bronx. And he was proud of it. He pridefully retold the story of him being a Shabbos Goy for the rest of his life.
That Goy was proud to be a Shabbos Goy while our OP is ashamed to have a Shabbos Goy.
@83: but if it be possible) would defiantly become a jew., you gotta love AI,
lol
Sechel, there are some goyim – entire communities – who believe in the Torah, keep the 7 mitzvos, and greatly, supremely value Jewish people because of what the Torah says about us. These people are usually former Christians, and while some convert, many see their place in the world as a chosid m’umos haolam; not every goy has the spiritual capacity to convert, as a finite amount of neshomos were by har sinai. They recognize their place in the world, secondary as it might be, as important.
One of my rebbeim sent a letter to the last Lubavitcher rebbe, asking him about good goyim who keep the 7 mitzvos; if their neshoma is still from klipos tamaeos (שאין להם צד טוב כלל), like the tanya says in perek 1.
He who wrote back to him quoting a sefer in chabad as saying that the neshomos of chasidei umos haolam have the same shoresh as that of yidden, though the neshoma itself is vastly different.
I’m using the source quoted by the Lubavitcher rebbe, not he himself as the source for this idea. I don’t remember what that sefer is called.
The Rambam says, chasidei umas haolam have a part in olam habo.
@83, I never heard of a goy defiantly becoming a Jew, I heard of at risk defiantly going OTD.
If I were a goy
I think I could understandOne of my rebbeim sent a letter to the last Lubavitcher rebbe, asking him about good goyim who keep the 7 mitzvos; if their neshoma is still from klipos tamaeos (שאין להם צד טוב כלל), like the tanya says in perek 1.
He who wrote back to him quoting a sefer in chabad as saying that the neshomos of chasidei umos haolam have the same shoresh as that of yidden, though the neshoma itself is vastly different.Is this the letter that you’re referring to?
https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=15875&st=&pgnum=56(Also discussed in the Rebbe’s notes on שיעורים בספר התניא:
https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=19841&st=&pgnum=53&hilite=)The notes on tanya are basically what my rebbe received from the Lubavitcher rebbe in the letter; the first letter you linked to doesn’t seem to address the issue directly (and it was definitely not the letter sent to my rebbe, as he lived in Brooklyn)
Thanks for the mareh mekomos
@avaira i dont understand your point. anyway, tanya says that clear that chasidai umos heolam nefesh HABAHAMIS comes from klipas nogah just like yidden, but jews have a nefesh HAELOKIS – peice of G-d that non jews dont have.
as far as kavanas habria like i wrote. yidden ARE the perpose. non jews can do their part but they were created FOR the perpose of yidden and torah.
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