If Nassi is wrong, how do you explain why 1000’s of older girls are stil single?

1) They contest the assertion that there are so many more single girls than boys.
2) They claim that there aren’t actually fewer boys, just that the boys aren’t in the same shidduch field as the girls being referred to (e.g. no longer frum).
3) They claim that the reason there are so many unmarried girls isn’t because of age gap, it’s because the boys reject so many girls because of superficial reasons.

Litvish women should marry chassidish men.

Dy’s 3rd reason

First hand knowledge

I’d like to hear a rational explanation why so many girls are not finding a boy to marry.

I’m confused. Do you want to hear what the anti-NASI people say, or do you want to hear a rational explanation?

Haimy invites an explanation, dy offers a personal attack at them before they get a chance to post. Im not not sure thats fair. It certainly wont encourage an attempt to join the conversation.

Sometimes is not the idea that is wrong, but the way the message is proclaimed

The right message told to people in the wrong way can fail too

Some people think a debate about ideas is a personal attack. It’s not.

Dy’s 3rd reason

First hand knowledge

See, the thing is, it doesn’t make sense. Sure, boys (and girls) have superficial criteria for who they’ll date or marry. However, if there isn’t some type of numbers disparity, even if boys were too picky, (to a worse extent than girls) there would still be just as many unmarried boys as girls.

Thank you providing an example of what a personal attack actually is.

The girls are also too picky. They are taught to expect to marry a type of guy that hardly exists. The extreme end of the litvish market – the super frum and the super modern find it easier. Its the middle road market that has trouble defining itself and so 8/10 suggestions are turned down even before dating. The girls in this market want a frum but chilled boy who shouldnt eeven be thinking about going to work but would have what it takes to run a business. Who is perfect in his learning, davening and yiras shamayim but will still have a wife with halachically questionable size and style of $5000 sheitel. The profile that will satisfy these girls requirements simply dies not exist.
If girls would look someone to love and care about them and to do his best in both avidas haShem and Parnasah, without being rated and stereotyped, we would see many more shidduchim being made much easier.

i do feel bad for any person not finding his/her shiduch;
what i don;t understand with this theory, is : when did the cycle start? why did it become so extreme only in recent times; i may be mistaken, but not my impression that this was the situation 30 years ago;
what about 150 years ago? if the concept is real, this situation should have come up way back in jewish history
maybe i am missing something, help me understand
i do wish everybody the best in finding an appropriate match

Defining “The Shidduch Crisis”

Particularly, I think we need to be careful to distinguish between issues which can block shidduchim in general, and the alleged disparity between the number of girls and boys who aren’t married.

(When I say definitely, I don’t mean that I have numbers, I mean it’s the strong impression I get from speaking to people about it.)

@Haimy
You want a rational explanation why so many girls are not finding a boy to marry>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I’ll give blunt and uncensored answers that may offend the community.
My children are aged 22 to 42 and B”H all have married. My youngest 2 (girls) married within the past 18 months.

#1 our daughters are NOT buying husbands. As soon as questions as to my income and how much I am willing to settle upon the young man, provide housing and how long I’ll support the couple/grandchildren while he sits and learns and expects my daughter to earn a living while keeping house and raising children…HE IS A REJECT.
If a boy wants to sit and learn until he’s in his late 20s, then he should not be looking for a wife. It is not her family’s job to support him in his endeavors. Let his family do it.

#2 My daughters are highly educated having both seminary and college and professional degrees and licenses. This knowledge and earning power makes them threatening to the Yeshiva bochur with no ‘real world’ experience or ability to make a proper living and support wife and family.

#3 Attaining college and graduate degrees and professional licences takes time and these girls are older than the boys when they seek husbands.

#4 the social stigma against marrying a girl a few years older than the boy is nonsense and should be discouraged. My eldest brother is 3 years younger than his wife. My eldest sister is older than her husband. Both couples are married more than 50 years. My two eldest daughters are both about 2 years older than their husbands…big deal.

#5 Time to get away from the professional shidduchin with endless shidduch questions and resumes. This makes marriage harder and creates false supply and demand. Let the mothers/friends/relative network do its job. They know the young people and the families best and know who is suitable or compatible much better than a shadchan with hundreds or thousands of names.

None of our children were married through the services of a shadchan. In fact, only one was tried when a daughter was going to Australia for an extended visit. The experience was horrendous. Every boy suggested was just looking for an American meal ticket and green card.

Our eldest son’s MIL went to summer camp with my wife and the ladies have been friends for almost 55 years. They realized the children would be a good match and made it happen.

2nd son was introduced to a neighbor of first DIL.

Eldest daughter was fixed up with male cousin’s roommate at Yeshiva.
Next daughter married brother of college roommate.
Youngest daughter ended up married to cousin of SIL.
My nephew married his sister’s sem roommate.

My parents met at summer camp in the 1930s. Dad was a counselor at the boy’s camp on one side of the lake, mom was a counselor at the girl’s camp on the other side. Motzei Shabbos the camp owner hosted get togethers under supervision for the staff to meet. They were married more than 65 years. Many of their staff friends met their mates this way.

Mrs. CTL and I had many mutual friends. I was on a bad date with one. She told me that I was not suitable for her, but she had a friend who would be a good fit. Turned out to be the future Mrs. CTL.

SO>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>ignore the age differential. Learn to network. If you or your child has a shidduch suggestion that is not worth a second date, don’t just say goodbye, consider if one of your friends might be suitable for the rejected person.

The crisis is not real, logistical problems and artificial roadblocks can be surmounted.

It is NOT about the money.

“The scene was different, but the boys definitely had the upper hand.”

They’ve had the upper hand since Har Sinai.

What many contributing factors have changed?

To name a few: age of chosson, age of kallah, the expectation that money shouldn’t play a role, childbirth mortality, arranged marriages (related to age).

There were always people who never married,

I also know that in previous generations people married people from other communities, meaning such things as frum people would marry non-relgious people. That rarely happens anymore

Ubiq: 4-10

I have a theory that like many of the issues we have today, the situation of girls not finding a shidduch has always existed to some extent (In the alte heim, if a girl could not afford a dowry, she had very little chance of getting a shidduch. In early 20th century America, it was hard for a frum person to find another frum person to marry.) but now it is more noticeable because the frum population has B”H grown so much over the recent past, so that even if the % has not gotten larger, it translates to a much larger number, a greater critical mass so to speak that requires community attention. Also, the world is a smaller place- so that we are more aware of the problems that exist beyond our small communities. And since unlike past generations where the struggle to just survive and remain frum took up so much effort, now we can “afford” to notice other pressing issues affecting our communities.

Winnie, I agree with you. Which is why I think the proposed solution in my first comment above, implemented in a limited and regulated way, may be the only real solution.

Haimy is making a good point. The choke points in shidduchim are the shadchan and the boy’s mother. the shadchan wants the easy shidduchim because she needs to make a living. The mother wants a fantastic shidduch so she can feel worth-while and successful and have bragging rights with her family and friends.

As far as the math, say there are 100 boys and 100 girls in each age group, and the boys begin shidduchim at 23, and the girls at 19. So: age 23 – there are 100 boys who are looking at a pool of girls 19-23. That’s five years worth of girls, at 5 x 100 = 500. But the numbers never even out, because as the boys age they keep looking for girls who are younger. so inevitably there are going to be girls that never get matched. From what I’ve seen, a lot of the older unmarried boys are unmarried because they’ve gone off the derech but are keeping it quiet because they don’t want to hurt their families, particularly the younger siblings’ shidduch opportunities.

So what’s going to happen to those “left-over” girls as they get older and realize they’re never going to make a match in the frum community, and will never have the chance at marrige and children? Some of them will marry non-religious Jews. And probably some of them as they approach 40 will give up and marry non-Jews. Our next crisis may be a couple of decades down the line when we’re trying to figure out what to do about a group of young people who are halachically Jewish but whose fathers are non-Jews.

I suggest we get working on possible solutions fast, unless we just decide that those older “girls” and their potential children are expendable, so kol Yisroel areivem zeh l’zeh is irrelevant. I wonder what the One Above would think of that kind of attitude? I’d rather not find out.

Since 30 years ago… how much has the age of the Choson gone up? How is money more of a role today? How are arranged marriages different now from then?

Is it realistic to go back to how it was done 30 years ago? Is it a good idea to do so?

I think the problem existed 30 years ago.

The shidduch crisis began when the definition of “ben torah” was changed from, someone who learns as much as possible, is shomer torah umitzvos and respects rabbonim, to someone in yeshiva 3 full sedarim a day.

Shidduch crisis? What shidduch crisis?