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Feif: Well, Rav Schachter might…
(He’s never really given a straight answer on why he doesn’t withdraw his authority from behind any OU dairy Hecsher, as far as I know.)
Feif: The fact that the OU gives these things a hechsher is not a raya to anything as once they feel there is a heter they can use it on everything under the category. The point is the psak would not have been made just for Ice cream. How do I know? Because the heter was for people to have milk not enjoy the use of there sweet tooth! Rav Moshe did not just wake up one day and say Hay I crave a good entamens dognut hey lets make chalav akum into chalav stam! ( as an aside Rav Shechter does not even drink milk at all though does not tell his followers to be mekabel his chumra)
So eat it! Do you need to ask ME for permission?!? Of course not….I’m not stopping you
I havent been to Skokie, But I have been to Chicago and I didnt see Chalav Yisroel in Chicago (At least where I was)
And before you tell me Skokie is close to Chicago, remember I am not a local and it would take me 3 or 4 x as long to get to Skokie from Chicago as a Local and when I was in Chicago I didnt have the time to travel from Chicago to Skokie (I think its around 1 hour each way by Subway) I was only in Chicago for 4 days
Der Rav: OU kashrus is overseen by R’ Belsky and R’ Schachter. They are the ones who say the heter can be applied to other dairy items, such as ice cream. Take it up with them if you have a problem with it.
The issue of chalav stam and that of dairy in general are two separate problems. Rav Schachter was out-voted by Rav Belsky and Rav Genack on the latter. However, he does hold that chalav stam (theoretically) is absolutely mutar without a doubt.
apushatayid, too many Litvaks here, huh? 😉
If cholov yisrael spoils more quickly, it’s because the stores are negligent in how they keep it. In Queens and the 5 Towns it’s not all that expensive — I can easily get it for $2.50 for a half gallon. I never have a problem with spoilage (unless my kids forget to put it back in the refrigerator). If your milk consumption is so low that you keep a bottle for 2 weeks or more, YMMV.
CY is pretty much only available where there is a concentrated frum population. If you’re traveling, that means BYOM.
Zahavasdad: You must not have been anywere neer the Jewish parts of Chicago as there is plenty of CY there and Skokie is a 10 minute drive from Chicago (there are no subways near either jewish Chicago or Skokie.
Feif + oy vey: You both totally missed my point (pls refer to previous comments of mine)
Der Rav, I was at the covention Center , Near the John Hancock Buildong, Wrigley Field and Ohair Airport
Since I dont know Chicago, and I didnt have a car, I had to stay near those areas
Der rav- I’m not sure why you are bringing up this CY argument about Rav Moshe’s heter not applying anymore. Who are you to decide that? There are plenty of well respected rabbanim out there who seem to think otherwise. Unless you are some well respected rav (in which case I would retract what I said) you have no right to decide that for others. If your rav thinks so, good go ahead keep it better safe than sorry. I your rav says Chalav Stam is fine go ahead no problem don’t let someone else tell you it’s not. By the way I keep Cholov Yisroel, so this isn’t coming from that point of veiw.
zahavasdad- Both Chicago and Skokie have plenty of Cholov Yisroel available. You must have been staying Down town or something if the travel time was that long. And by the way that is a typical NY comment, the whole world has Cholov Yisroel not just NY. How about LA, Cleavland, Detroit, Milwaukee. I’m pretty sure that them, and many others, have too.
Zdad
I eat cholov stam as well but I dont feel the need to make up bogus excuses why I do. I grew up eating it and I like it and im not ready to give it up any time soon. Dont feel like you need to defend yourself on this issue. You actually have some legs to stand on here as opposed to some of your other opinions shittos and uvdos mentioned in other threads.
“If cholov yisrael spoils more quickly, it’s because the stores are negligent in how they keep it.”
AND because most cy companies are not using the more modern higher temperature pasturization. And some of us are glad of that.
The standard pasturization is fine for the purpose of killing dangerous bacteria that may be present. The higher temperature is only for shelf life.
Some cy companies are using the higher temps though, so seek them out if you prefer longer shelf life over less cooked milk.
I always buy Golden Flow CY milk and have never had a problem with it going bad too fast.
If you live in New York it is very easy to find CY. Maybe it costs a few dollars more but it is worth it. Fresh and Tasty and Devash is cheaper then Golden Flow, Most of you who complain about the price would buy something that you really really want even if it is a little more expensive so I don’t think that is a good excuse. I really don’t see any excuses in NY for chulav stam. Maybe if you live in the middle of Oklahoma or Kansas somewhere then maybe I can hear an excuse for chulav stam.
curiousity- Maybe…lol 😉
RebRY: Excuse for? Need? R’ Moshe says it’s Muttar. Why would I need an excuse to do something Muttar?
“The fact is that OU kashrus is headed by 2 huge Rabbonim, R’ Belsky and R’ Schachter. Both of them have no problems giving a hechsher on ice cream.”
They do not “head” the OU but are “halachik consultants”.
If I’m not mistaken, Rav Belsky is personally makpid on Cholov Yisroel and Rav Shachter doesn’t eat/drink any dairy products due to personal kashrus stringencies.
Are we such “ba’alei taive” that we must have cholov stam?
Yes
Kasher: Yes, but they both give their stamp of approval to the OUD on Chalav Stam. Eating/drinking what’s Muttar to eat/drink doesn’t make you a “Ba’al Taive”.
kasher
“Are we such “ba’alei taive” that we must have cholov stam?”
What a joke. Have you ever seen the amount of junk food sold in Heimish kosher supermarkets. I think we have more junk food than the non Jews!
I’m originally from LA and whenever I’ve visited my family, who live in the SF Valley, I have had no problems getting CY products there. Yes, you have to know the 3 or 4 stores where to buy them, but I’m sure if you ask in an orthodox shul you will find at least one or two people who know where the local supply is available.
onegoal: Though I may not be a well known Rav My Rebbi who I heard this from was one of biggest talmidim of Rav Moshe and was also one of the biggest poskim in America. (If your going to ask me who I cant say as I have not asked his reshus to be mefarsem in his name)
Der Rav: And he still chose not to publicize this opinion against the other biggest Poskim in America today. That should tell you something as well.
Sam: I think Der Rav is relating how his rebbi, one of Rav Moshe’s greatest talmidim, explains Rav Moshe’s psak on the matter — not his own.
How come when it comes to Chalav Aku”m nobody remembers the Chazon Ish YD 41,4 ? (don’t respond unless you see it)
Chacham: I don’t remember it because I’ve never seen it. 🙂 I’ll go look it up now though.
I dont know what the Chazon Ish says, but Ill assume he forbids it by the way you quoted it.
However He was the Rov in Europe and Israel, he was not the Rov of the USA as Rav Moshe was.
Joseph, I haven’t read it, but I’m going to respond anyway.
Probably the reason is that the Chazon Ish lived in Israel. R’ Moshe’s psak was for the US, not for Israel. In the US, especially regarding matters that were specifically for the US, people tended to follow R’ Moshe, not the Chazon Ish.
Ok and share with us what the Chazon Ish says.
I wont have a Chazon Ish on hand this Shabbos.
zdad- I never knew Chalav Aku”m is one of the Mitzvos hateluos Baaretz.
However, there is a reason why i wrote not to respond unless you saw it . I was shocked to see that he says almost exactly like Rav Moshe. ???? ??
Der Rav- So if your rabbi sees fit, he will get up and tell the world to keep CY. My Rav will tell me what I should or shouldn’t do. I’m glad your Rav says you should keep it, kol hakavod. My Rav and many others say one doesn’t have to keep CY so they aren’t required to. Obviously somebody who isn’t keeping it was told by daas torah that he does not have to which is fine for him. There is no reason to argue about it, you both asked your respective rabbeim and got different answers, therefor you will (hopefully) do as instructed.
Feif un, Firstly, I do not like being called Joseph. He is not me and I am not him.
The Chazon Ish is in ois 4 DH umnum http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=14334&st=&pgnum=118
I’m bringing this throwback thread back in response to ‘i run with scissors’s post on “do you guys remember me” . it’s one of my earlier posts. I stand corrected. I’ve not been posting since 12th grade, but it appears I used to be really funny!!
So many ancient user names here!
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