I have COVID

DY -“Also, it doesn’t work”

Says who?!?
The Lying Media?!?
Even the government doesn’t claim that.
They just say we need more Studies.
I guess 60 or more studies aren’t good enough for them!

philosopher, you need to switch off your partisan information sources (that you did not tell what they are) and try reading scientific literature directly. It will take you some time to learn the lingo but it will benefit you greatly. You’ll be able to come up with your own ideas. Scientists may have biases and preferences for certain approaches, but a lot of what is happening is factual: results of experiments and observations. This is done by a multitude of authors in different countries, companies, universities. They are not in secret communications with each other before putting out their pre-prints.

Phil -“It’s actually these political pseudo, fraudster scientists employed by the government who advise the governors and president”

This one statement I agree with.
This guy Fauci knows medicine, but he’s Mostly a political hack.
He believes in His way or No way!
Look what he did to Trump.
He got the world, especially the Libs, to make fun of him.
He actually was wrong – HCQ does have an effect on Covid.
Look at the Studies on C19early.com.

WHO said HCQ doesn’t have an effect.

Dear Bob,

I think he published a book.

AAQ, there have been no peer reviewed, long-term studies on the negative side effects of the covid-19 “vaccine. That’s a fact.

Many honest doctors and scientists, those who are not hesitant to tell the truth despite to the negative repercussions the have to put up with for saying what they feel regarding the so-called vaccine, either due to its side effect or inability to provide adequate efficacy, are totally against these “vaccines”. That’s a fact.

The politicians and politically motivated and/or financially motivated “scientists” are pushing for mandatory vaccinations and at the same time pushing for masks to be worn due to many studies showing that those who got the vaccine still can get covid-19 AND spread the viral load equally to those who did not get these shots. That’s a fact.

I gave read many studies and listened to many virologists and top doctors and scientists speaking about the vaccine. Your trying to make me unknowledgeable on this topic does not change the facts, the reality on the ground.

NoMesorah -“He actually said it has not been proven by the data”

He always says that when he doesn’t want to approve a drug.
He said that by Ivermectin.
But why did he approve Remedsivir when there are less studies
than the other 2 drugs?!?
Maybe he got a Kickback from the Pharm. companies to approve it?!?

AAQ, if you think I’m going to quote word for word from all the talks I’ve heard from scientists and doctors, sometimes over an hour long, sorry I’m not doing that. I can’t even remember all the names of the doctors and scientists I’ve heard talking about covid and the so-called vaccine. I’m certainly not interested in quoting anyone, it’s all out there for anyone to hear and see. You just have to search a bit because Google suppresses this info which they ( the non-doctors and non-scientists) decide is “misinformation”.

I’m not interested in changing anyone’s mind, I can’t change anyone’s mind. I’m just responding because…I don’t know why tbh, because why not.

@philosopher Tens of thousands of scientists and doctors are saying that it’s far better to take the vaccine than to risk getting COVID. A couple are saying it’s not. For some reason you’re listening to the minority of the minority.

philosopher

Everything you wrote is your own assumption. Assumptions can be fabricated to support one’s own biases.

Everything I’ve said is based on EASILY verifiable facts. If you don’t know how to or are not interested in FACT CHECKING and rely on “fact checkers” then you are just being deliberately naive. Go on being a sheep if you want to, it doesn’t change the reality.

Philosopher Karl Popper defines what a theory is and what is just babbe-maise (he is not using the latter term): could you suggest a potential fact that will overturn the theory? for example, a theory that vaccine is effective can be tested by a carefully constructed double-blinded test.

In case of phils writing above, he seems to reject any proposed proof or any widely proposed remedy as a conspiracy and, in turn, accepts anything that is not accepted widely as vadai remedy. I can’t come up with any potential piece of information that phil will not reject on these grounds.

Health,
everyone asked for several weeks of tests. Biontech CEO said today that he presumes that T-cell protection against severe disease will not decrease, while lower level of antibodies protecting from initial infection may decrease.

@Health if you Google “who hcq” it’s the first result from WHO’s website.

Here’s the link, which mods may let through https://www.who.int/news/item/04-07-2020-who-discontinues-hydroxychloroquine-and-lopinavir-ritonavir-treatment-arms-for-covid-19

I don’t get this obsession with HCQ, or any other treatment.

This USA mistrust of doctors is an American machla because your healthcare is so monitised. Here in the UK where 99% of treatment for Covid happens in a NHS hospital there is almost zero way for anyone to make money out of surpressing valid treatments, and letting people die.

And yet, UK doctors, medical cheifs and head scientists are pretty much unanimous that masks, and social distancing are necessary especially when there’s a new variant with unknown long-term effects on the spread, because there is no guaranteed treatment. (And all agree that HCQ is ineffective, as is some heirmishe Monsey doctor’s magical cocktail.)

You USA-ers have got to start looking outside of your own country, at yiddishkeit worldwide and see how Eretz Yisroel reacts, and the gedolim there. The USA has one of the worst death rates from Covid in the Western world, and the yidden there someone think it’s a chov kodosh to keep the USA 11th commandment of freedom and almost entirely disregard the measures that the rest of the world, including frum yidden worldwide, think necessary.

The halachoh is that we follow rov rofim. The halacha is clear that most poskim hold that dinei dmalchusa dine applies to matters of public health.

This denial has much more to do with a misyavnim effect of valuing your USA-originating freedoms than a Torah viewpoint to do whatever we can to guard our health, obey the law of tha land, not to be misgreh b’umos and obove all to think critically and accept the majority worldview on health matters instead of conspiracy theories and quack doctors.

Ash, agree with most of your points, but
– death rates in US and UK are about the same, Israel is way lower
– covid became a political pawn in many countries, and USA being the free country it is, is taking it to the extreme. Most of the blabber about vaccines you see here is simply a quote from some cable channel or website. Some Yidden are watching it secretly in their mothers’ basements, others are hearing it from friends in shul or fbook. This country gives people the blessings of freedom and some choose to use it to waste their minds.

> Where are you getting your info from?

I am not insisting on that, but several people in my community had a second sickness seriously harder than first . It may be that Jewish community was hit early, so with passing of time and change in variants, maybe some become vulnerable again, and will be again with new variant coming.

Actually, a fresh Lancet article from Britain talks about this: Reinfection with new variants of SARS-CoV-2 after natural infection, Dec 2021 says that re-infection was 8x less likely than new infection in nursing homes between spring 2020 and Jan 2021. Most importantly, it says that those who will re-infect all had low antibody levels.

So, the right thing to do seems to be at least measure antibodies. Previous advice I saw was to get at least one vaccine dose.

Ash, you are being overly optimistic about the healthcare in your country when many of your fellow citizens who are medical patients travel all over the world for treatment, with a great many to the US ( not talking about covid-19) because the healthcare in the UK is not the best to say the least …and that includes the treatment of covid-19. Why would doctors go against official guidelines which exclude proven therapies to treat covid-19 when they have no incentive to do so and every reason to go along with those in charge who are only banking on these so-called “vaccines”. Those in charge are raking in millions with these so-called vaccines.

The coronavirus death rate is very similar between the UK with a death rate of 216 verses the us with a death rate of 235. There can be many reasons for this including how these deaths are recorded, it does not mean that the UK actually has a (slightly) lower number of covid deaths.

Health,

Most of the drugs that are currently being used to treat Covid patients are repurposed. You specifically are pushing/advocating for 2 drugs that in normal times would require rigorous quality trials for them to be recommended.

Your questioning as to why Remdesivir was approved, I assume this was because this was early on and people were grasping at straws. Hospitals needed options to treat dying patients, so this was used.

Furthermore, who is in the way of providers writing scripts for the drugs that you are promoting? And if the patient’s local pharmacy is refusing to fill the script for some odd reason, they can always go to another pharmacy. Being that these are repurposed drugs, the pharmacies should already be carrying these drugs, so there really is no issue there.

2scents -“Most of the drugs that are currently being used to treat Covid patients are repurposed.”

All I know about is Steroids, and that’s only to treat the inflammation, not the Virus itself.
If there are others, please name them.

“Furthermore, who is in the way of providers writing scripts for the drugs that you are promoting?”

I’ve seen online that pts. went to Court because the Hospital refused to give Ivermectin.
And I’ve seen a story on YWN that the doc from Satmar town went to a Rx. to fill a script for HCQ & they refused!

2scents -“they are not viralcidal or viralstatic”

That’s exactly my point!
Ivermectin & HCQ stop Reproduction of the Virus.
So it’s Not either anti-inflammatory or anticoagulants.

“With regards to some stories that you read online, the fact of the matter is that there are no restrictions placed on Ivermectin that would prevent providers from prescribing them or pharmacies from dispensing these drugs.”

But a lot hospitals won’t give them until the Gov. Okays them!

phil, I am getting info from scientific articles. I do not read them all due to lack of time but a representative sample, as I am professionally interested in the statistical methodologies. You generally say “many experts”. You quoted Bob Malone. I looked up his linkedin page. He does not look like a world-famous person. He runs his 1-man consultancy for last 20 years, and he lists 10+ pages of companies that he either consulted or worked for over the years. Looks like almost all of them less than a year. I clicked on five – they all have linkedin descriptions but when you click ona web link – none currently exist. He has several references that seem pretty straightforward and do not even hint to his value to the world. Here is a typical one: Robert is a very knowledgable and detail oriented individual capable of managing multiple project timelines to meet deliverables on-time.

AAQ, you never mention which articles you read and by which doctors they are written. And I honestly don’t care. First of all, doctors and scientists can have different ways that they view the same subject matter, they are not clones of each other. And many things, not only objectivity influences the results of research. I am assuming the articles you read are online on websites as well so what’s the point of saying we see things on websites, so do you.

Regarding Dr. Robert Malone’s LinkedIn account, I find it really funny that you would judge a person by their LinkedIn account. Many people open accounts and don’t end up posting much, including me. I opened an account years ago, put up a bit of info and then dropped the entire thing despite working in my chosen career,; I did not find LinkedIn to be of any value. But you can find many, but not all, of Dr. Malone’s accomplishments on his Wikipedia page. Unfortunately not all that he has accomplished in the world of science and virology is still listed there, his work as THE pioneer of mRNA vaccines has been scrubbed due to his current stance which goes against those in power. Currently, Dr. Malone is in contract with the US Army Medical Research Institute of Infectious Diseases. And until 2020 he was the cheif medical officer at Alchem Laboratories. Obviously, his work in science and virology is highly valued and he’s not simply a “one man consultant for the last 20 years”.

Im not really interested in dropping more names of doctors and scientists who are totally against these shots, or at least against he mandates, but I will mention one person, the Nobel prize virologist Dr. Luc Montagnier who also has a Wikipedia page which of course was edited to say say that he’s a “promoter of conspiracy theory…” regarding the covid-19 origin which has ultimately been accepted as the most likely scenerio of the origin of covid-19, and yet this “very important” line depicting him as a conspiracies is still up on his page. They are seeking to discredit him due his belief that the virus was created in a lab, which at the time he said it the liberals didn’t want to acknowledge that, and regarding the covid-19 shots, he saidbthat it will not stop the virus, which has absolutely been proven to be true, and that the shots cause many covid-19 varients to spread, which is most likely true as well.

There are many, many prominent virologists and doctors who are against the so-called vaccines. Again, I’m not interested in listing all of them or even a few of them. They are there I’d you are interested in finding them.

Philosopher,

Interesting to see how you accuse another poster for not posting a detailed list of articles or doctors but proceed to do the same.

“ There are many, many prominent virologists and doctors who are against the so-called vaccines. Again, I’m not interested in listing all of them or even a few of them. They are there I’d you are interested in finding them.”

What makes you chose which accept something from any one scientist vs another one, or rather vs the vast majority of scientists?

Furthermore, even Dr. Malone doesn’t consider himself THE pioneer of the new vaccine. The fact that he is contracted by the US army is that supposed to give him additional credibility, more than the vast majority of his colleagues?

Ash – I am not arguing your whole post but you cannot deny you are not so different in you selective listening. I don’t believe in conspiracy theories, but I also don’t believe you can call everyone outside of your box a conspiracy theorist.

You live in a conspiracy theory world, where the majority of doctors, all who recommend vaccines are either dishonest or fooled by “big pharma” or “Bill Gates”

You are right, not everyone who believes in it is fooled, but to deny that there has been a ban on opposing data is also tinfoil hat material. Besides the few who I heard clips of who you disregard, I have real actual contacts in the medical and pharma world who have verified this ban. So I am not so quick to dismiss it and I resent being called a conspiracy theorist by those who have used their own selective blindness to choose their sources.

Again, I’m not in line with philosopher at all, and I’m not anti vaccine, but from the outside your “quick vaccinate before you kill someone” and “tinfoil hat” cries are no less looney.

2cents, I did not ask for a list of scientists from AAQ. In fact, I said that I don’t care whom he listens to. I said that beferish. What I did say is that AAQ accuses the anti-covid shot posters of listening to “channels and websites” and that we don’t bring their sources or write whom we take our info from while AAQ does not do that either and also takes his info off the websites. Who doesn’t do that nowadays? (No one reads science journals that come in the mail…) That is hypocritical and that is what I said, he doesn’t talk who his sources are while denigrating the fact that we do not state who our sources are. That is totally hypocritical. I have never demanded to know his sources are and neither do I care to know.

And what makes you choose which scientist and doctors you listen to? CNN the NYT or some other liberal news agency? Do you listen to the mass murderer Fauci? What makes you the authority whom I can and should listen to? And I have absolutely not seen that a majority of doctors should be pro the poison shot, the vast majority are quiet, they are not willing to risk the backlash they would have if they were to publicly speak out against the shot. In any case, it’s a free country, or should be a free country, and I will listen to whom I think is saying the truth, not the majority and not those who toe the political line, the same political line who encourages kids to explore their “gender identity” in public schools and the same political line that has other boxes people can check off on official documents other than male or female.

I have no clue whether Dr. Malone thinks of himself as the pioneer or not but the fact is that HE developed the concept of the mRNA vaccine first ( Researchers worked on his first experiments and perfected it further, adding lipids for mRNA transfer). He was always refered to as such however since his anti-mandatory covid-19 shot stance and his bringing up issues about the shot is causing many to discredit his work in being the FIRST to design, experiment and develop the beginning of the mRNA vaccine technology.

He is not only contracted by the army. He has held numerous prestigious jobs in the field of virology. And he is not the only virologist speaking out against the as of now experimental “vaccine”. Their are many prestigious doctors, scientists and virologists speaking out against it. However it seems as the only ones you listen to are those who speak on the liberal mainstream media news or through political channels.