I don’t understand outcome of Mueller report

U.S. prosecutors can indict a ham sandwich — and win a conviction — if they’re so inclined. There are so many barely known laws that virtually every American is a criminal.

Everyone sees what they want to see.

The very same thing, to one person its a bad thing and an impeachable offense.

To another, its total exoneration that no crime has been committed and that the entire investigation was based on corrupt and false data.

1. The Democrats decided to impeach president, and otherwise to resist anything and everything he does.

2. A special prosecutor is appointed to investigate the charge that the president was a Russian agent.

3. Special prosecutor concluded Trump was not a Russian agent, but many of his friends are crooks.

4. Since special prosecutor didn’t produce evidence that Trump had engaged in “high crimes and misdemeanors” (political crimes while in office), and since it had already been determined that Trump is evil incarnate who must be opposed by all good (“political correct”) persons (determined by the Democrats in 2016, and affirmed by CNN), Trump obviously obstructed justice by concealing that he is evil and worthy of impeachment (and probably drawing and quatering).

So really, it all makes perfect sense,

Participant: Excellent question. I suggest you ask Martha Stewart her opinion on the matter.

AZ: It’s available on the DOJ website. Read to your heart’s delight.

But note that Starr operated under a much different law than Mueller. Starr was in charge under the law he was appointed. Under the law Mueller was appointed, the Attorney General was in charge.

I believe that the redactions wont really change much one way or another.

I have skimmed through it, there is enough material for everyone to claim victory.

There are questionable actions from trump, even those questionable actions have not had any impact on the investigation.

Furthermore, its questionable if the intent was criminal or simply frustrating about being investigated about something that simply didn’t occur (as is known today).

While there is no evidence that a crime occurred or the intent was criminal, there is enough for those that hate trump to claim stuff.

AZ: Get real. The redactions were literally relatively minor, much much less than initially anticipated. And they were required by law to be redacted, to protect grand jury testimony.

@Joseph
You have no idea if the material redacted was minor (as you claim) or major BECAUSE none of us has been able to read the redacted material!

You have no idea if each and every redaction was required by law to protect grand jury testimony. Some redactions made have been in the name of “national security” whatever that means……………..

I would love to read the actual report in full, but doubt I’ll still be alive in 100 years when it gets released.

Meanwhile, I look forward to the actions in the SDNY US attorney’s office, as well as the NYS AG’s actions against the Trump family. POTUS has no pardon power over state convictions.

“obstruction of justice with no underlying crime”

There have been dozens of indictments and convictions. Definitely underlying crimes.

“I read the AGs summary”

The AG summary clearly misrepresented the contents of the actual report. And the misrepresentation may be worse than we realize because none of us has seen the unredacted report.

You don’t like or believe the fact that the Attorney General of the United States redacted the report in accordance with the law? Too bad; you don’t have to like it.

In fact, under the law the AG could’ve chosen to release not a single page of Mueller’s report and simply given Congress the AG’s summary and nothing else. And that would have fully complied with the law as written by Congress.

Be happy you got anything; you aren’t getting any more.

Impeachment is a purely political process. Even if Mueller concluded no “collusion” (whatever that means legally), the information in the Mueller Report may provide a sufficient basis, along with other information on the Trumpkopf’s behavior beyond the scope of the Mueller investigation, to constitute
“high crimes and misdemeanors”, which means whatever a majority of the House wants it to mean and they can vote to impeach. As many have noted, virtually impossible to “convict” by 2/3 vote in the Senate so Dems have to decide if the theatrics and visuals of an impeachment process going into 2020 election cycle will help or hurt their candidates. I think it will be a big diversion and hurt but nothing in today’s politics seems to follow historic trends and logic.

2scents, Barr got a letter from Mueller which he denied, saying he did not know of his disapproval of his four page summary letter which did not properly summarize the Mueller Report regarding colusuon, not discussed, and obstructuon, not exonerated, thereby he was lying/

Furthermore, the President should order the Federal Bureau of Investigations to forthwith open a political corruption, abuse of official power and potentially treason and an attempted coup de’tat investigation into Democrat leaders of the House. These Democrats should be treated no differently than common criminals during the course of the investigation by the FBI.

And if charges are warranted on any of these crimes, they should be arrested and given the same perp walk in front of the cameras as any low life criminal would face. Their status as ranking members of the House notwithstanding, as it implies no immunity or defense for attempting to overthrow the democratically elected government of the United States of America by abusing official parliamentary power in the pursuit of naked political aims.

I can already envision a barely awake, hands neatly cuffed behind his back, Jerry Nadler being led out of his home in the early morning, flanked by two burly uniformed Special Agents of the FBI. Network television cameras, having somehow gotten the scoop in advance, duly documenting the unfolding story, as he’s whisked into the FBI vehicle that brings him straight to the courthouse for his arraignment. Beginning a months long process of court house appearances for bail requests, setting of trial dates and other pleadings.

A good first start would be for the Attorney General of the United States to appoint a Special Counsel to investigate and prosecute any crimes associated with the false framing of the Trump Campaign leading to the unnecessary investigation based on demonstrably false information such as Christopher Steele’s Trump–Russia dossier that was likely created by Russian intelligence to undermine Donald Trump. The new Special Prosecutor can also investigate where Hillary Clinton as well as Barack Obama and leading members of his administration fit into potentially creating a tool to undermine the incoming U.S. administration.

Either Rudy Giuliani, as a former Associate Attorney General of the United States and former United States Attorney for the Southern District of New York, or Chris Christie, as a former U.S. Attorney for the District of New Jersey and former Governor of New Jersey, would be a great choice for this appointment.

I reckon that the Special Counsel would likely wrap up his investigation and be in mid of some prosecutions by mid to late 2020.

We need a FIFTH investigation. And we need his tax return from 1981 – the smoking gun.

Law professors and others lament that the amount of Federal Crimes have grown to frightening proportions. The body of strict liability federal crimes are so vast, everyone in the country can be locked away for something. You got folks serving sentences for selling antique ivory on ebay that are longer than rapist or murders. Cue Trumps prison reform (that the Dems wouldn’t do).

My answer to that is, that’s why we voted Trump. Jackk is right. He does need to serve for life. It will take 3 generations to fix this broken system.

And imagine how many investigations of collusion we could be on by then. 50-60?

אלו ואלו דברי חמורים חיים

Participant: The report had some very minor redactions as required by law to remove grand jury testimony. The criminal Democrats are simply using this for political brownie points to hammer the President after Mueller didn’t condemn the President as they were praying and expecting from Mueller. So instead the Democrats grappling with the little they have to make trouble.

Mueller: If we had confidence that the president clearly did not commit a crime, we would have said that,” …

Amila,

Your falling victim to partisan politics, this does not mean there was a crime, he clearly stated that he never looked in that direction as he was not tasked on doing so.

To the average person, Trump comes across as an innocent victim that was upset that he is being accused of something that wasnt there. now they are going to go after him for being upset about it and almost taking actions that were obstruction.

It seems as if the Democrats will be preoccupied with items that the average citizen does not care, and hand Trump a victory.

My point was, that Mueller just added some confusion which will just make both parties claim victory.

2scents,

There is nothing in what Mueller said for the Republicans to be happy about.
.
He said straight out that he was never going to indict Trump for collusion and that he did not exonerate him from committing a crime by his report.” Charging the President with a crime was therefore not an option we could consider.The Department’s written opinion explaining the policy against charging a President makes several important points that further informed our handling of the obstruction investigation. ”

He also confirmed that the Russians meddled in our elections.
“The first volume of the report details numerous efforts emanating from Russia to influence the election. This volume includes a discussion of the Trump campaign’s response to this activity, as well as our conclusion that there was insufficient evidence to charge a broader conspiracy.”

This affirms what the Democrats have been saying since the beginning to Trump’s and the Republican’s wild lies . The slogan “No Collusion” was and always will be a meaningless slogan. Just as meaningless as MAGA. He was never going to be convicted of collusion.
It blows away the Trump talking point of ” lets get all those who surveilled me during my campaign.” He was under surveillance because the Russians attacked out elections.
The Republicans have been living a lie for the past 2 years and the emperor has no pants.

2scents,

As he said:
“The appointment order directed the office to investigate Russian interference in the 2016 presidential election. This included investigating any links or coordination between the Russian government and individuals associated with the Trump campaign.”
“Every defendant is presumed innocent unless and until proven guilty in court.”
“When a subject of an investigation obstructs that investigation or lies to investigators, it strikes at the core of the government’s effort to find the truth and hold wrongdoers accountable.”
“The report has two parts addressing the two main issues we were asked to investigate. The first volume of the report details numerous efforts emanating from Russia to influence the election. This volume includes a discussion of the Trump campaign’s response to this activity, as well as our conclusion that there was insufficient evidence to charge a broader conspiracy.

And in the second volume, the report describes the results and analysis of our obstruction of justice investigation involving the President.

The order appointing me Special Counsel authorized us to investigate actions that could obstruct the investigation. We conducted that investigation and we kept the office of the Acting Attorney General apprised of the progress of our work.

As set forth in our report, after that investigation, if we had confidence that the President clearly did not commit a crime, we would have said that. We did not, however, make a determination as to whether the President did commit a crime.”

Mueller was never going to say that Trump committed a crime since he could not be indicted as a sitting president anyway.
The only thing he could say was that he did not commit one. On that Mueller says that he could not say a crime was not committed.