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I joined the CR because I thought it would be a nice place to discuss different things with different types of frum Jews, and it has been that to some extent. But lately I’ve found myself many times getting upset and frustrated, and while it may be good to use my self control to hold back from saying or discussing something, it’s really not healthy.
I also know that my personal hashkafos are many times extremely different from the vast majority of members’ here, and that makes me feel very out of place. I would like to stay here, but I don’t know if that’s the best thing for me.
If you are getting upset and frustrated, then maybe the CR is not healthy for you.
On the other hand, if you can express your opinion here without being attacked and are able to see the viewpoint of others, its probably a good idea to stick around.
Hi MiddlePath,
Its a hard call to make. On one hand, I hear what you are saying about certain posts causing you to feel out of place and on a different page than the OP. Is there any way to discuss how you feel about certain opinions offline? Sometimes its also hard to see how people come across by the written word…one reason I value face to face communication more than anything.
On the other hand…I, and I am sure others look foward to reading what you write. You have a unique sensitivity and maturity that comes across in what you write, that we enjoy reading.
MP
I haven’t followed threads where this has happened, so I’m just going by your words here.
In general, it’s really not healthy to hold back from saying or discussing something while keeping it in. Depending on the situation, this may be a passive approach (although sometimes it may be better to just ignore certain comments).
There is a skill to learn assertiveness without either aggression or passivity, and when to ignore in a healthy manner, and you may want to learn and practice it here instead of withdrawing.
I know that your presence here has contributed a lot till now, and I’m saying this after reading another refreshing comment you made on the men doing laundry thread.
Hatzlacha
well well 1st this is a fantastic place to have a HOCK!!!
but there wasn’t good ones lately…. it’s getting kinda boring!!
MP i challenge you to think up of the wackiest funniest and most enjoyable thread!!!
can’t wait to see it!!
btw your posts of very enjoyable keep them coming!!!
Many people will miss your posts if you leave. Not all disagree with you posts, and, in fact, your open-mindedness and willingness to grow is an inspiration. People will lose out if you leave. I, too have felt like leaving in the past when some of my posts didn’t make it through. I’m glad I stayed for the support I continue to give and receive. I hope you’ll feel the same.
I think you only feel this way because you may have taken a few on the chin (or gotten EDITED, not sure which is worse).
Stick around a bit longer; corner one of us with a slam-dunk argument, and you’ll see why we flock to this place like bees to flowers.
If you still don’t feel like you’re in tight, drink some more kool-aid. That’ll have you beleivin’ in no time!
MP i too am not an “average” or “regular” kind of guy here i don’t exactly fit in but its because that we are different that we should stay here and let our voices be heard so that those regular joes can see a viewpoint that isn’t the norm. You have a unique viewpoint one that needs to be heard loud and clear please dont go.
Sorry to hear that, Middlepath. You gotta do what’s best for you, whatever that is…
MP, you know I feel the same way. I know you’ve helped many others here and I’m sure others have helped you. Maybe you fit in more than you realize. Or maybe this group just isn’t your peeps. If I may ask, what are some examples of why you feel like you don’t fit in?
Middlepath I really enjoy reading your posts and must say it would be sad if you left the CR as your views and ideas are needed and valued. The appeal of the CR is the fact it is a forum for debate between different types of Jew. I too do get sometimes upset as I read things I vehemently disagree with or at times feel may even be counter to my cherished view of Yiddishkeit, I am a firm believer in loving all of Klal Yisrael, not through rose tinted glasses but from a sense of belonging, history and emunah, our history has never been easy, so many different experiences and traditions, not to mention cultural and political influences along the way. If you can face it, stand your ground it will make you stronger as you learn you can and should express yourself. Sometimes my words are moderated, it is fine and makes me determind to be careful but truthful with my language, perhaps learning to rephrase things in a diplomatic omanner. I am really new to the CR, but have been reading the interesting comments for quite a while, eventually I couldn’t resist joining in with posts myself.
MiddlePath: I understand your frustration. Simple: I (and I think most or everyone on here)have also felt the way you feel. We all come from different backrounds (chassidish, litvish, yeshivish, MO, conservative etc.) and we don’t agree with everything everybody says.
Nevertheless, I think everyone would put their life on the line to help their fellow Jew. Whether MO, chassidish, yeshivish or even frei. And THAT is what’s so amazing. We are One. We have One Father, One Torah, and we as Yidden are One People.
I think you’re a great asset to the CR and people gain from you. You are a great source of chizuk to all of us. It’d be a great loss to us if you’d leave. Hope you stay.
Hatzlacha in whatever you do.
omg I cant believe I missed this thread in all the time I was not here. Please do whats best for you but I am telling you now that you dont know how much I will miss you if you decide to leave. you know how much I love your posts i dont have to tell you.
Ok, here is my opinion on this topic. Middlepath, your posts here are so helpful to so many people. I and many others will miss you but I definitely understand how you can get frustrated and even upset by some posts here.
I too feel out of place here sometimes. I feel like maybe I am just not as “good” or as “frum” as the people on here. A lot of the time I do not post on certain topics because they just are so frustrating and infuriating to me. For a while I felt like people tried to push their “frumness” and “yeshivishness” onto the “regulars” here but then I just realized that this is their way of life, their minhagim and this is what they really and truly believe in. I may not agree with everything they say but everyone is allowed their own opinion and minhagim and rabbanim type that they ask their sheilos too.
But I REALLY REALLY understand how you might feel out of place here. For real sometimes I read some topics and just want to cry because they sound so ridiculous to me and I always ask myself, don’t Jews (especially frum Jews) have enough to worry about without nitpicking over every little thing. I still do not understand this and really still get frustrated sometimes (like I did on the Dov Hikind and Hatzala issue that was discussed or the gum chewing thread) but I just try my hardest to keep my mouth shut so others don’t hear my frustration and feelings about it.
I know I’ve rambled on and on here but if it makes you feel any better, you’re really liked here. Your posts really mean a lot to many people so you will be missed!! You obviously need to do what is good for you but we will miss you!!!
MP- I’m not sure what you feel about the CR, but we will definitely miss you if you decide to leave.
Your posts contribute a lot here, as they are usually written with respect and a thought out mind.
I never had a problem with your Hashkafos and I’m Chassidish! We have to learn to respect each other’s differences.
Don’t think of it that you are holding yourself back. You are merely deciding against posting and broadcasting a certain idea. There are many topics of which I had strong opinions, that I decided not to contribute, for any number of reasons. I’m not in middle of a discussion, where not answering is an answer of its own.
This is a message board. It is a place where people drop by and post a message, usually pertinent to the topic, and others read them and sometimes post another message.
As was mentioned, you bring a unique voice to the CR. I don’t want to push you to do anything you don’t feel comfortable doing, but know that your opinion is appreciated here.
Hatzlacha
(Should you decide to leave, at least check in to keep us updated.)
“…cornering someone with an argument, that’s partly why I feel like I don’t fit in here.”
MP, you are describing the “out-of-town” personality to a T.
Out-of-towners generally discuss issues respectfully without the need to take the other person down. There’s no need for condescension, insulting, aggression, cornering the other, etc.
It’s actually quite refreshing when you write, and I hope that we all can learn from your style.
” that’s partly why I feel like I don’t fit in here”
You have a point, if you take it (or mean it) personally.
Hashing out differences, arguing fine points, its all part of the fun (and kept clean, due to the mods and members). And when its all said and done, we come away with a better idea of what the topic is all about, and a better understanding of our position. There’s a famous quote: “Once you know the why, you can address the what”
Think of it as excercising. 99% of us will never need to run a marathon, or fight off a hoard of maurading Huns.
But its nice to know you can, if you need to.
MiddlePath, I think taking a break is a good idea (I think I’ll do the same. Lately the CR has been bringing out my negative side, and I need to step back for a bit.) But I hope you come back. I really enjoy reading your posts. It’s great to have a member here who thinks a little differently than most of the posters. I also don’t like having to defend myself here for just stating my opinion, and then feeling really bad about it. I know many people (myself included) agree with many of your views, even if they don’t say so.
MiddlePath-
Since it’s too late for me to edit a previous post (==>HERE<==) listing you as a favorite, I’m afraid you’ll just have to stick around.
(Plus, I agree with the nice stuff the other posters are saying.)
A while back, someone suggested opening a “cocoa room” where only nice things could be posted.
Maybe we should consider implementing the idea. Then we could all sit in a circle with Morah Mod, sing Barney songs, and make smiley face stickers for one another.
Oh, and I’ll bring a back-up snack (carrot sticks, natch) in case someone forgets to bring one
BPT- why can’t we make this into the cocoa room? Why do we need a Coffee room for nasty comments and a separate forum for pleasant ones?
We can all argue respectfully.
MP- do whatever you think is the best thing for you but I wish you lots of luck in whatever you decide and I pray for you! please dont go though i really like your posts.
Ok, serious answer now.
I really feel that, for the most part (meaning 98% of the time) none of the steady posters (and I would consider myself one of those) are mean or insulting.
Sarcastic, wise-cracky in a funny way? Yes, that’s just the way I am.
Sarcastic, in a sneering, demeaning way, I don’t see any of us being that way. And if we sometimes come off too strong, we get “reminded” by the Mods or members to tone it down.
As far as taking a VERY strong stand on one issue or another, speaking for myself, if the topic is one that really has no place in a “yeshiva” based forum, then I see no reason to pull any punches. Since you picked the subject of music, I’ll go with that one.
Were the question, “is Mozart’s music good or bad?” that should generate a civil discussion, with each person advancing his or her opinion.
Were the question,”is Lady Gaga’s music good or bad?” that should generate a barrage of nasty, biting posts.
So we play nice, but we play hardball too. Depends what, who and when.
Bravo, MP! You’ve said what quite a few of us have said in the past but to no avail.
Since when is onaas dvarim ok?
Disrespect?
Condescension?
Insulting?
Being judgemental?
“Joking” at another’s expense?
One can disagree without becoming aggressive, joke without being insulting, and realize that we are all connected with the same Father.
Part of asking mechila is kabala al ha’asid, changing one’s ways in the future.
I sincerely hope we can all sign the unwritten contract barring these non-Ahavas Yisroel behaviors.
In the zchus of ahavas chinam and bain adam l’chaveiro, may Hashem bless all His children with a wonderful new year with peace on earth.
MP- you are so, so right. I’m surprised at the posts that get past moderation here sometimes, and I’m surprised at the posts that get DELETED sometimes.
But I guess different mods, with different minds, approve different posts.
MP, I hear you loud and clear and would be very sad if you left. You have contributed so much to all of us and it is people like you that make many of us come back to see who is on and what was said or rather written.
I agree with you and I have learned over time when I get upset and frustrated to stop reading and instead of leaving the CR totally to just filter and not read those threads. I have to stop myself from getting involved in certain discussions and just leave them alone. i don’t open them, i don’t read them and I don’t get involved in them. And if a thread turns sour on me, sometimes I write a response and not send it. And sometimes I write a very wild and crazy response and leave it to the moderators not to post it. So basically I vent to the moderators and they are smart enough to file it in the trash.
So before you make up your mind to turn your back on us completely try to ease yourself away from those threads that people start to get someone’s goat, or to “hock”, and just join those that you feel you can help with or you can learn from.
Hope I see more of you around 🙂
BTW Middlepath, I generally stay away from anonymous controversy. When I argue a point, I need to know who I’m arguing with , and what their level of intelligence is.
It can be like arguing with a 2 yr old if a Lolly or a million dollars is better. You have absolutely no idea whom you’re communicating with.
On an anonymous forum, I cannot argue my point, since I have so many different types of people here. So I stay away! I only visit the light, interesting threads. ( I don’t even read all those arguments).
Thanks, MP. Right back at ya 🙂
I hope I didn’t say anything that made you want to leave.
Its Elul, please tell me if I did.
Middlepath and Queen Bee so glad you put in your views here as I a late comer do so enjoy the discussion yet at times have to stop myself from getting upset too or more often taken aback. The beauty of the CR is being able to enter into discussion or ask questions anonymously with so many different types of person and opinion. Yet at times that can cause problems too as a non Jewish forum discussing different subjects never affects me the way a Jewish forum does, I suspect we have a more emotional relationship with one another and when we disagree or be hurtful on things we really do care about it can hurt! When it comes to Israel or mutual tolerance of different types of Jew I have to back off as it can really hurt alot
i got banned…
MP- glad to hear. its been a pleasure.
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