I can't find my old post, so I'm following it up here

Comlink-X – I don’t mean to offend anyone, but if the ‘source’ is Rebbetzin Anybody, then it is not likely to contain an inkling of truth. If she quotes a reliable source, I’ll accept it. Otherwise… Let’s phrase it like this. There is nobody in our generation who has a right to come up with this on his own – and ?? ????? ?? ??? ?? ?? ????? a woman, who has pretty much zero ??? ???? (obviously excluding Devorah etc, who did have ?????).

Its like saying that R’ Peysach Krohn told you when Moshiach is coming.

(For future reference, name the thread about the main topic of discussion to attract interest; like this, nobody is going to open the thread!)

Thanks Yekke2 your post (absurd as it was)cracked me up reading Comlink’s post about women becoming equal to men and then in the very next comment “and ?? ????? ?? ??? ?? ?? ????? a woman, who has pretty much zero ??? ????”

made for a funny juxtaposition

BTw are you serious? (Poe’s law)

There is no person named Devorah Heshelis. That is a pen name. Who made her into a “rebbetzin”? “The Moon’s Lost Light” has a strong feminism undertone.

Upon further reading, I cannot say that it has a strong feminism undertone. It is simply a book with the opinions of one woman.

Well, ladies, I guess we’ll just have to step down so that we can be equal to men in these end times, poor dears. My quibble is with the title of the book, however. The moon’s light is not, in fact, lost.

Nequuitam and yekke2

The only one who brought a “mekor” of any kind on this thread was comlink (and Joseph). I double checked. (you dont provide a mekor either). This thread is chockfull of non-mekor based misogynist views. (Obviously that doesnt necessarily make them wrong)

That said, I never said I disagree. I said that I found the juxtaposition between:

“somewhere that in the End of Days, women would be equal to men, and that this begins to happen in the world as we approach that time.”

and the next post “and ?? ????? ?? ??? ?? ?? ????? a woman, who has pretty much zero ??? ????” Funny.

Since apparently no one is following the links above, here is the original text:

Randomex:

This seems like the right place for this: Has anyone in this discussion heard of the idea (Jewish) that the entire universe is moving towards a time when the genders will be equal as they originally were, symbolized mystically by the restoration of the moon to its original luminosity, and that the energy of this movement of the universe is the reason for the

emergence of the feminist movement? (Or something like that. I don’t remember any more details or where I came across this.)

yekke2:

Man and Woman will never be the same; just like the Sun and the Moon were never the same. Even when the Moon was at its full strength, it wasn’t the sun. And therefore there were not ??? ????, there was a ??? and a ????. Nishba and a Mashpia. Etc.

Patur Aval Assur:

Randomex:

It’s a Rashi in Megilla 22b based on a Pirkei d’Rabbi Eliezer:

???? ???”? ???? ?? ???? ????? ??? ???? ?????? ???? ????? ???? ?? ?????? ?????”? ?? ?????? ?????? ??? ???? ????? ????? ????? ???? ????????

Women of the Wall applied this to Feminism.

Comlink: Which google result are you referring to?

mw13:

Thank you for that very illuminating outline of the book. And if she indeed had a valid source, such as the Vilna Goan according to one poster, than of course that point takes on a whole new light.

And just to address a more central issue. In your post you mention that she asks about women’s supposed ‘secondary role’ in Judaism. This is a valid question, but one with a well established answer across the board, as you point out, that the differences between the genders is not hierarchical, but elemental. The fact, the metzius is that there are fundamental differences and therefore different roles.

An interesting component of this is one of the most central differences between a torah outlook and the opposite. The secular way of looking at the world declares personal choice to be king. If one wishes to act in a certain way, then there is no greater injustice to that individual than to deny him that choice. We see this especially with regard to certain types of immorality. In a secular environment there more often than not is no concept of having to do what one wishes not to do. And tht end result of this is a culture of permissiveness. One cannot be deprived of something if they want it. Therefore, if a woman wishes, for example, to be a Rabbi, the secular world would decry as bigotry any view that proscribes this.

But that is because, in their collective mind, the only aim in being in a position of halachic authority is the personal aspect, the status and honour this provides. For us. the pursuit of Torah for status alone is unthinkable. People become Rabbis because that is their role in life in which they can serve the Ribbonio Shel Oilom in the best possible manner. Honour and prestige isn’t, and shouldn’t, be a factor. In certain other religions, and liberal movements, they have changed their position to place women in clerical positions because firstly, who is to deny them that choice in life, and secondly, why should only males receive what in their minds is mainly prestige. We understand that there are roles for different people and different genders, and personal choice and honour are meant to be hindrances, not motives.