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I am a Roman Catholic. No, no, I do not believe that Jesus was our savior nor do I believe him to be the son of God. I certainly do not believe in the Holy Ghost and, to be honest, I am not really sure what that even is. But believe me (as our President is want to say) I am a Catholic.
Don’t get me wrong, I have never stepped into a church, I did not attend Sunday school, I know very, very little about the New Testament and if you asked me what mass was, I’d probably tell you it is the property of matter that measures its resistance to acceleration. But I call myself a Roman catholic so a Roman Catholic I am.
My father was not a Roman Catholic and neither was my mother but I was converted by a Roman Catholic who shares my views of our religion. Truth is, to me being Roman Catholic means being a good person and having Catholic values (because, after all, we all know that Muslims, Jews and them awful Baptists do not believe in being a good person or changing the world for the better).
As I do not know or care for the Catholic rights, I don’t have rosemary beads and think they’re silly, Hail Mary is what I like to see at the end of a football game and again, I don’t believe in Jesus, I have developed a new form of Catholic prayer. It entails, wearing a pasta strainer on my head (I borrowed that one from the Pastafarians) and wearing speedos and chanting the lyrics to any song by Abba. This is how I, as a Catholic, like to perform the prayer service. Now, truth be told, I conduct my services maybe once a year but as a Catholic, I demand that the Holy See set aside a space for me at the Vatican to conduct my mass every 15th of the month and on Christmas and Easter, too. The refusal by the Church to cede to my requests shows great intolerance on the part of the Church and I will stop donating money to the Archdioceses and instead of telling people I meet how nice Catholics are, I will encourage them to spread lies about the Catholic people all over the world.
And that is the Reform argument to pray at the Kotel.
Cute. I like the part about rosemary beads.
What the heck?
One of the best posts I’ve seen in awhile
KudosBut Judaism is different from Catholicism. A Jew, no matter how far, is still a Jew.
while you raise a cute point There are 2 flaws:
1) As RY23 points out (thoug gh?I guess you minimize this arguument by limiting your point the reform “geirim” (“My father was not a Roman Catholic and neither was my mother but I was converted by a Roman Catholic who shares my views of our religion. “) Though this is a big minimization of your point, since Im not sure how many of those there are.
More significantly
2) The Kosel is not owned by any particular group. IT isnt comparable to the Vatican (LEhavdil being an understatement of the century.) your argument would make sense for a misnaged who practices “his version of Satmar” and davens nusach ashkenaz etc and insists on having his own minyan in Kiryas yoel
“But Judaism is different from Catholicism. A Jew, no matter how far, is still a Jew.”
Yeah, what makes you think a bad Catholic isn’t still a Catholic?
But Judaism is different from Catholicism. A Jew, no matter how far, is still a Jew.
But “Judaism” with it’s own self made rules is not Judaism, no matter what they call it.
No Jew, reform or otherwise, is prevented from davening at the Kosel.
They are perhaps prevented from davening in ways which violate the tenets of authentic Judaism.
Besalel, great post. Even if some wish to nitpick inconsequential details.
Catholicism isn’t true, so it’s like baseball. My own very spiritual, nontraditional form of baseball is not real baseball.
But if it were true THEN your spiritual, nontraditional form would be real?
Actually, you could pretty much make a whole spin-off thread where you rewrite this OP’s post about baseball instead of Catholicism and trying to play at Yankee stadium or something with your own spiritual baseball version. That would be pretty funny.
If it were true, then it would be a matter of either belief or belonging as opposed to following the rules.
“OP’s post about baseball instead of Catholicism and trying to play at Yankee stadium”
No it would be more akin to making a spin off about playing “spiritual baseball” in the local park.
As painful as it is for true baseball aficionados to watch people desecrate our field with their heathen “Spiritual baseball” the public park unlike Yankee Stadium or The Vatican isnt private propertyThe Kosel isn’t public property.
As DY said, great post. The nitpickers are irrelevant. No analogy is ever perfect. Your point is made.
“The Kosel isn’t public property.”
Who owns it?
I have no idea what the opening poster is trying to tell us.
Catholism is a hirearchcal religion meaning everyone answers to the Vatican and the pope, you cannot be against the pope and be a good catholic
Judaism isnt like that, Misnagim and Chassidim would never occur in Catholism, If there is a schism, they start another religion like the Protestants
And the Reform and Conservatives broke off from Judaism and started their own religions. They’re to us like the Mormons are to Catholicism.
The Vilna Gaon excommunicated the Chassidim
yaffeh meod
He only did certain ones, not all. And he never put in cherem those born after he made it. So it certainly never applied to anyone after his time. Furthermore, his talmid later removed it from those he did apply it to.
See Shu”t Nishmas Chaim #7.
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