Hungarian Yidden

They have Europien formaleties.

Well, I would venture to say that there are many inter-related factors, but basically, it boils down to one… MONEY!

– Hungarian Jews were much wealthier than their European counterparts. They had the means to do things more b’kovodik, and that was passed onto their offspring. Affluence makes it easier to do things more respectably.

– Hungarians always followed the derech of being ehrliche baalei batim, as opposed to cobblers and poor yeshiva students. This derech comes from the Chasam Sofer, who was the rov in Pressburg (then part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire).

– Additionally, the Yidden in Hungary were not as prosecuted by the goyim as in other regions of the continent. This allowed them to work and maintain their money better than others in Poland, Lita, etc.

– Hungary was one of the last countries to be affected by the Holocaust. Their collective psychological suffering wasn’t as lengthy as it was for others, which means that they were able to rebound more easily than Jews of other nations. (Of course, I don’t want to minimize anyone’s terrible suffering, and this is just my theory.)

– Hungarians were exposed to a culture of luxury because the Austro-Hungarian Empire was wealthier than other countries (Poland, Lithuania, Russia, etc). Again, being exposed to that wealth got transmitted into their genes, and B”H the descendants of Hungarian Jews have channeled that culture of luxury into beautiful Yiddishe traditions, enabling the rest of gang to learn from our wonderful ways and embrace beauty.

Many of the Gedolei Yisroel of yesteryear (Chasam Sofer, et al) came from the greater Hungarian lands. Today’s Czech, Slovakia, parts of Romania, even a small part of the Ukraine — the Carpathian (Ruthenia) region — that once was a heavily dense Orthodox Jewish and Chasidic geographical area, in addition to today’s Hungary proper were all part of pre-Trianon Treaty (pre-WWI) Hungary.

There were poor Yidden living in Hungary too.

I think its specifically the Oberlander Hungarians who carry the shtultz and appreciate when things are exquisite and admirable.

(I actually find it kind of facinating- walking in to jewish home and you can sort of tell if they are decendants of hungarians or non-hungarians)

BP girl: You’re right, “flashy” would be a better word.

bear: So since my great grandmother was Rumanian and I don’t keep that siggeeeleh, do I qualify for Saygec Arosz?

Agreer; You make it sound like there were no poor people in Hungary and everyone had a crystal chandelier in their bathroom. Or, that there were no wealthy Yidden in Poland or Lithuania. The fact that some Yiddelach who hail from Hungary are ostentatious does not mean that they were wealthy in Europe or they have an extra Dollar to their name. I have a theory (And I know plenty of cases to prove it.) that a truly wealthy person doesn’t flaunt his riches. On the other hand, a “Shnorrer” will live an ostentatious lifestyle, on borrowed money.

Ever heard the yidish expression “kish mir in unterland”

A chandelier isn’t enough. Chandelier matches floor matches mezuza cases. Otherwise you have a Galitzianer wannabe.

I think that the classiness comes from valuing education. There were plenty of poor Jews in Hungary, but the education was more universal and then in many other places. They also believed in secular education, and that made it easier to make a living.

I think all the comments about chandeliers are cheap shots that have no place in a blog on YESHIVAWORLD.COM. Remember that we have been stereotyped by goyim for centuries. There is no reason to do it to ourselves. If you think that Hungarian Jews are classy, you are welcome to learn from them. If you find the chandelier flashy, don’t buy one, just get a fluorescent light fixture. And skip the nastiness, or at least don’t be nasty in such a public forum. You never know who will read it.

Kapusta; (Your moniker creates a situation of ??? Hungarian. Because cabbage is called so in several East European languages other than Hung.) That saying you are referring to about the coins hails from the Gemara (Talmud Tr. Gittin), among other places. ?????? ?????? ??? ??? ????. Meaning; A few coins inside a wallet will make noise, as opposed to a stuffed wallet. A more prust saying goes like this; “Empty Barrels Make lots of Noise”.

Englishman: That’s funny, I thought the elite were the talmidei chachomim? Or the kohanim? Ingarischer edited

English man;

With all due respect, there were plenty of reformers in Hungary as well, and many iconic Gedolim who have stememd from Germany, Galicia , Lithuania etc.

Divrei Chaim, (Galica) Rav Shamshom R Hirsh, Wurtzburger Rav, Bamberger, Rav Yisroel Salanter, Vilna Gaon to name a few.

My mother always told me that I came from yiches because both of my parents, both grandparents on either side and all great grandparents were Kohanim and Bat Kohanim. None had ever been closer to Hungary than Poland and Russia. Who knew?

I thought Oberland refers to areas like Prague (Czech) and Slovakia, areas that were Chareidi but not really Chasidish, i.e. the Vien kehilla (Adas Yereim).

what was unterland then?

Kasho, Munkacz, Ungvar, Satu Mare etc were located in lands conquered by the ancestors of the present Hungarians. They had another culture altogether.

Those areas were part of Hungary for a thousand year (from about year 900 CE) right until the end of World War I (1920), when the Austro-Hungarian empire was broken up into smaller countries and this area was incorporated into the new state of Czechoslovakia at the behest of the victorious Allies. (Satu Mare was given to Romania then.) It was about 33% (Orthodox) Jewish, while the goyim were a mix of Hungarians, Rusyns (not Russians), and Ukrainians. In 1938 the Hungarians took it back just before WWII and held it until the end of the war in 1944 when the Allies returned it to Czechoslovakia. Because it was in Hungary again from 1938-1944 instead of Czechoslovakia, when the Nazis ym’s invaded Czechoslovakia in 1938, this area (like the rest of Hungary) was spared until 1944 when the Nazis took over Hungary itself. In 1945 the Soviet Union took the area away from Czechoslovakia. When USSR broke up in 1991 it became part of the Ukraine. These were heavily Chasidic towns right up to World War II.

Does anyone know when the last frum Yidden from the prewar Orthodox community in Hungary left Hungary? There were relatively large numbers of Orthodox Jews still living in Hungary at least as late as 1956. But at some point after the ’56 anti-Soviet uprising it seems the vast majority of frum Yidden in Hungary left (mostly to the United States and Israel.)

I am Hungarian, who left Hungary at the revolution sixty two years ago and being in America sixty years. My wife o.b.m. enjoyed silver and crystals. She said, I enjoy honoring my guests. I stick to our ashkenazic heritage (maarovis and yoitzros) not swaying an inch saying it on my own. She liked limoges so we got a curio cabinet to display them. She had a ceramic doll collection.

Oberland is towards Austria, the west of the Danube, whereas Unterland is towards the east, Romania. I was born in Sopron going back to the Romans on the Austrian border. A synagogue from the forteenth century (1325) was discovered there through excavation.

We don’t have a chandelier in the bathroom and I don’r know anyone who does. My mother o’h was a holocaust survivor from Aushwitz. She was not fancy being satisfied with what she had.

It seems ever since the Chasam Sofer (ein chodesh etc.), Hungarian Yidden have one of the most intense forms of Avoda in Yiddishkeit.

laskern: You’re an Oberlander or are you an Unterlander?

Hungarian Jews were generally considered less scholarly than their polish Or Lithuanian Coreligionists
Hungarian Jews did a better job in keeping their communities and baale batim religious however