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BTW, the Agudah really dropped the ball on this one. I spoke with R’ Weinberger and he admitted that had they gotten involved years ago, when it was just one “renegade” chassidishe mohel, then nothing would have happened, but their Moetzes did not want to do anything.
He also admitted that there is zero to no chance of winning the lawsuit.
He should definitely do it. Because according to his shitta it is required. And even if according to the parents shitta it isn’t required, it is 100% valid bris as has been done for centuries.
Sounds like hand matza vs machine. With pretty much the same players.
Drovi, if that was a response to my question you’ve strengthened the city’s case. You are advocating that mohelim do something to a child even if they suspect that the parents would not want him to do it.
Surely you could understand why some would try to prevent that from ever happening?
Most parents dont know about specific bris minhagim or care too much about them.If they did, they would inquire beforehand. But they dont. So the mohel follows the minhagim he follows.
DovidH, if a heart surgeon says that because the patient didn’t ask me not to operate while drunk, he implied permission, does that work?
There are two primary options as far as parents and MBP: either they believe in it and want it, or they don’t and they don’t. There are few people that would say: “Well I don’t think MBP is important but I sure love Herpes.”
Now the question is back to how anyone can justify doing something dangerous to someone else’s infant without the parents knowledge.
It hasn’t been proven dangerous.
DY: That’s not true. It has been proven dangerous in certain scenarios. The question is whether or not those scenarios are common enough and not able to be prepared for. Bottom line, if a Mohel with an open sore is doing MBP (and certainly on someone else’s kid without permission) he is a Rodef. Without question.
It boils down to this:
If you think the mohel has a right to do as he pleases to my child without asking my permission whether I would this possibly dangerous practice that a small minority of people view as a chiyuv, then that is that is the strogest reason to support the city forcing mohelim to ask permission, to protect them from these dangerous mohelim.
If you think the mohel should ask permission, then you agree with the city
Whether or not MBP is required/advisable li’halacha or not is pretty much a side issue at this point. The much larger issue is the fact the government, led by Nanny Bloomberg of soda size limit fame, is attempting to dictate how we can and cannot observe our Religion. This is highly problematic, and sets a scary precedent for future regulations on religion.
Sam, I wasn’t referring to open sores; AFAIK, no mohel does MBP with open sores.
I wonder, though, has even that been “proven”? Are there any studies?
DY, it may surprise you but there have been no studies To determine whether parachutes are effective in preventing major trauma related to gravitational challenge There was a proposal to that effect in BMJ in 12/2003. Would you be willing to be enrolled in a randomized, controlled double blinded study to determine if parachutes help?
Ubiquitin, I said no mohel does MBP with open sores, and intuitively, it definitely seems dangerous.
I don’t know if the two cases are comparable, though. There are plenty of cases in which people have fallen from high places and died without a parachute, and plenty of cases in which people have safely used parachutes. So we know that parachutes are necessary and effective, even without a study. Do we know for a fact that an open sore causes the transmission of HSV? Maybe we do; I don’t know, I’m merely asking.
DY: This whole situation came up again because last week a Mohel did two MBPs with an open sore.
The Kanoi Next Door -“The much larger issue is the fact the government, led by Nanny Bloomberg of soda size limit fame, is attempting to dictate how we can and cannot observe our Religion.”
And even a bigger issue is that the Frum community lets MBP be done by Mohelim w/o even having mandatory testing on them for HSV.
DY -“Do we know for a fact that an open sore causes the transmission of HSV? Maybe we do; I don’t know, I’m merely asking.”
Well I answered previously -you don’t even have to research it yourself, even though it wouldn’t be too hard considering you’re on the net, -I brought you the answer already.
They have proven time and again -the HSV virus is transmitted by direct contact to s/o’s mouth even if they don’t have any sores at the time. What I don’t understand -well actually I do -I posted this before -the Frum community since they lack in education -all of a sudden when it comes to Milah with MBP -they can’t believe it could transmit disease.
The question the Frum community should be asking is why we aren’t forcing every Mohel to be tested for HSV? And even if positive they can take medications if they want to remain a Mohel that does MBP!
I would like to publicly point out that the second circuit just got it completely right. Not that the reg is unconstitutional but that Judge Naomi was misleading and wrong. My “faith” in the federal courts has been partially restored.
Savage is a Jew so how dare u say bad stuff against him.
Malbim – you’re probably a jew, and you post too much.
frumnotyeshivish, do not bash him.
I wouldn’t dignify savage with a response.
Ender, I would he is a great man.
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