How tznius are todays sheitels?

popa bar abba- I have been reading many of your comments on these threads and most of the time, you are quite rational and instructive. But your assertion that there is no difference between d’oraisa and derabbonons (that is the gist of your post) flies straight into the face of every halocho. Did you know that there are more flexibilities with derabbonon than d’oraisas? An example- “stam jeinom” (a derabbonom) is bottul beshisha (1/6)- real jajin nesech (a d’oraisa) is not. There are a plethora of halochos in joreh deah that will use various ‘snifei hetter” if it is a derabbonon. How about the hilchos aveilus? we pasken that we go ‘lekuloh” because aveilus (after the first day)is derabbonon. And many,many others.

It is actually of crucial importance to know whether something is d’oraisia or derabbonon. it is not to say that one should not follow both in same fashion but there will be some very definite differences if covering a woman’s hair is only derabbonon, starting with the Aruch Hashulchan’s hetter.

I understand your feelinsg that you want to follow your ‘rebbeim’ of the past hundred years but you must understand that this is not how Poskim look at it. They have to go back at the origins of a halocho and understand the issues discussed. Another example: shaving on chol hamoed. The Nodah bejuehuda had to interpret a MISHNE to come to his conclusion. You cannot get earlier than that!

Nonetheless, I have found this thread very stimulating both in its discovery of various ways of looking at a certain halocho and at the people who are responding.

popa bar abba- on your second comment. Actually, NO. R’Moshe zz’l never paskened this way, and neither did many other Poskim. The GRO disputed the shulchan aruch in his Psakim and other Poskin disputed the REMO at times. An acharon cannot dispute a rishon but can-CAN- dispute any acharon and by the way, they often do. I do not agree with your way of looking at psak.

ppopa bar abba- I don’t want this to become a private dialogue although I am enjoying it. Basically, there are two ways of making piskei halocho. You can be a ‘collector”-looking at all the previous Piskei halocho and then taking what is the most prevalent. This is what many poskim do today but in truth, it is intellectually dishonest, because they allow someone else to make the decision for them. It is, howeverr much safer, as few people will disagree.

The other-more difficult- way of giving a psak is to delve into the whole sugya and come to a conclusion regardless of what previous Poskim (obviously acharonim) said before. Shaving chol hamoed is a prime example. The Nodah Jejehuda was the first who came up with the hetter of shaving on chol hamoed (I am not going into the details now). Before him, it was always understood that you cannot shave but he saw a change in everyday life and adapted his psak. In a more extreme way, the GRO’s psak that the zemanin are from Netz to shekiah and mincha must be davened before shekia went against the mechaber and the remo.

There are many examples I can give you. The second way is much much more difficult because you are challenging certain precedents and people are afraid to challenge the status quo. This is why R’Moshe’s psakim were so attacked in the beginning. Obviously, when the dor sees you as a giant, then some of your piskei halocho become the norm.

Every possek- I assure you- respects the previous generations. And if Rabby Broyde- as mentioned, comes to a different conclusion, I am absolutely certain that he knows that he is puny compared to the previous gedolim. Nonethelss, he is allowed to give his opinions. So, every cogent argument is allowed. You don’t have to follow it but it is intellectually honest and others are entitled to follow that Psak. I thank you for this interaction.

“I don’t care what most frum people were doing 100 years ago”

You said otherwise in your earlier comment.

“The GRO disputed the shulchan aruch in his Psakim and other Poskin disputed the REMO at times. An acharon cannot dispute a rishon”

Rabbi, those two sentences are incompatible. The author of the S”A was a rishon. I presume you mean that usually an acharon does not dispute a rishon unless he has other rishonim to hang his hat on?

Yet there are even exceptions to that. What rishon ruled that women do not have to pray the shemoneh esrei, as the Magen Avraham rules? What rishon objected to the Radvaz’s paskening that the Ethiopian Jews were fully Jews with the status of Karaites? And I’m unaware of any support from anyone, rishon or acharon, for Rav Soloveitchik’s teaching gemara to women.

And Chas v’shalom we call the Magen Avraham or The Rov “fools”!

rabbiofberlin, Charliehall –

Thank you for your support. I appreciate it very much.

Popa-

It seems to me to be infected by the very things that mdd accuses.

I am not going to take issue right now with that generalization. Let me just say that I do think in some cases you might be right, but it depends on the posek/rabbi, and personally I think one could say the same thing for some ‘ultra-yeshivish’ rabbanim, (though of course to the opposite extreme) so I think it is not really fair to generalize like that.

However, ???? that that’s the way it is, like mdd describes; for arguments sake. I am bothered by the fact that he simply discredited everything I wrote without even reading it. I did not find an obscure rishon to rely on. I used standard sources and a regular approach to analyzing the sugya (by regular I mean that I am sure none of my rabbeim in the Mir, Ner Israel, or Lakewood would say I’m being ????? anything, and my much-more-“normal”-than-me chavrusas were also ???? to what I said), yet I get dismissed with a flip of the hand at best, because apparently I have an agenda.

I guess I am appealing to you because with all due respect to others on this site, I think you know better than most here, how to properly learn a sugya and pasken a shaila. So if you happen to have the time to read my lange drosho, let me know what you think.

Brooklyn yenta its true that u can also get attention by doing somwthing weird but usually a lady that is wearing a shmata on her head although she will get attention nobody will be attracted.”

Not necessarily true. There are women who wear the most outlandish hairstyles, nose rings, tattoos, and yes, shmattas on their head, and some weirdo will find them attractive. Just look at some of the couples who walk down the street of Manhattan.

rationalist judaism is authored by a person the gedolei yisroel across the board have declared apirkorsus.

Joseph:

LOL, you know how many times you have said this (and under how many names)? Must be a dozen at this point.