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1. By cooperating with Russia to end the war on terms favorable to Russia, Trump sends the message that the USA does not keep its commitments, and more importantly, he alienates almost all of Europe. In addition, he has threated long term allies such as Denmark and Canada. This sends a message to Russia and China (and their associates in Iran and North Korea) that countries the US has supported will no be supported and will be easy pickings.. And by destroying, or withdrawing from, NATO, the USA will have no bases in Europe and only limited access to the Middle East. The next time Iran launches a massive rocket attack on Israel, the US and its allies won’t be there to help Israel , whereas Iran will be able to get help from their allies (Russia and China). Israel will need to be able to defeat Russia and China, and without any help other than from Jewish communities abroad.
2. Civil Service, at least for the last 60 years, has been a leading source of employment for frum Jews. Unlike private employers, they take religious accommodation seriously. Shrinking the civil service, as Trump/Musk claim to favor, will hurt us more than the non-Jews.
3. Some of Trumps policies are likely to backfire and increase the chance of a Democratic president with control of Congress by 2029, and perhaps one in which the “Progressive” (WOKE) caucus is dominant. Trump’s approach to Tariffs and to deporting gainfully employed illegal aliens is inflationary. Cuts to the IRS and Social Security mean refund checks will be late coming, and benefits (especially for new beneficiaries) from Social Security will be delayed. Trump’s open hostility to non-MAGA Republicans mean that in elections, especially if the opponent is a “sane” (non-WOKE) Democrats, Trump will lose votes to the Democrats (though as we saw in the last election, most non-MAGA Republicans prefer Trump to a “progressive” Democrat). The Progressive (WOKE) caucus of the Democratic party is highly anti-Semitic. They are the ones who think well of Hamas and raise money to help them kill more Jews. They are the one who want to close down Jewish education and ban bris milah. Anything that brings them closer to power is bad news for us.
Thus, even though Trump is clearly a “friend” who means us well, the impact of his policies could end up be devastating for Jews, both in golus and Eretz Yisrael.
More sad than Trump is the fact that so many otherwise same people have been utterly brainwashed. If this were Biden they would be all over him. It’s so sad to see our community mostly brainwashed. Rip GOP.
1. The President is not taking Russia’d side. He is still sending lethal arms to Ukraine to kill Russian soldiers. He is a tactical negotiator and his antics are his negotiating tactics to end the war that has now been going on since 2014, eleven years and with no end in sight without Trump’s intervention.
2. He is not withdrawing from NATO.
3. Civil Service (government) employees should NOT have better job protection or employee benefits than private sector employees. And the government workforce is highly bloated and way overdue for severe downsizing to save taxpayer money. The first to go should be the do-nothing employees who sit on their hands all day and do nothing. It’s high time to stop coddling the government politically connected union thugs obtaining things no private sector business would ever agree to.
4. I agree that tariffs are not helpful and are liable to backfire. I’m hoping, and believe it is reasonable to speculate, that President Trump’s game-plan is to use the threat of them as leverage to obtain terms from other countries more beneficial to the United States before he drops the threat of tariffs on any particular country.
All excellent points. There are so many obvious opportunities to scale back inefficient and outdated government programs that can be done surgically and would have very widespread support. Instead, their meat-axe approach seems driven by petty vindictiveness and anger and in the process, squandering so much of the support he had just 4 weeks ago. Their treatment of Zelensky on Friday should serve as forceful reminder to Netanyahu that Trump can throw you under the bus quicker than you can say MAGA if you fail to engage in the most obsequious flattery and agree to his demands, no matter how outrageous.
1) you wrote “Unlike private employers, they take religious accommodation seriously” . I have worked at quite a few corporations. They are over catious about every religous accommodation possible too. In fact to the point that its almost embarrassing when they make an issue about kosher food bending themselves over 5 times more than they need to.
2) “Cuts to the IRS and Social Security mean refund checks will be late coming,” I just filed my taxes and got a refund check quicker than ever within two days. I think some of this is copy and paste talking points but just not tge reality. its probably true that if you want to speak to someone at the IRS, good luck now. But simple e-files which are the majority are fine.
3) To the big concern The fate of the jews. Yes it could invoke the WOKE caucus and that is a possibility But firstly, right now it seems to have weakned them. In the last MAGA wave a few of them lost. Many more are now scared to go too left because of the backlash. So your argument is surely a concern but it doesn’t seem to be the case. Moreover and most importantly, this isn’t normal times rather its a pivotal time for Israel and its safety. This war and its outcome can decide its fate for many years to come. Its a time of emergency now. That means we need to worry about the present moment. Moderates who try to appease both sides even when pro Israel (Like Biden who was an ohev ysireol) leave speace for Hamas to flourish. We need a strong man like Trump who isn’t sacred to tell the arab world the way it is and set the tone. The world has to know that the Gaza resioltuions starts with the fact that Gaza is one big terror cult. You can’t reason with a cult like Jonestown (or lev Tahor).. You also can’t defeat a cult of 2M people who will die to their deaths. Any rebuilding without breaking up that cult just strengthens the cult leaders. It doesn’t matter if its Hamas or some other name as its front. Its still one big cult. It needs to be busted. The Trump plan of relocating them is radical but it brings out a very clear point to the world. You need deradicalize those crazies. And this is very very crucial for the world to hear. By the USA havi9ng Bibi back it ensures Hamas never rebuilds to its glory. This is a matter of life and death. Now is not the time to worry about the long future. its like rushing a patient in for risky emergency surgery to save his/her life. the furtre just becomes so irrleavnt.. The focus needs to be on the present.Akuperma
Well said !
I would add, that if Trump asked Zelenskyy rare minerals in return for sending arms to Ukraine – what will he ask of Israel in return for sending arms to Israel? I shudder to think, perhaps Judea & Samaria?
I cant believe he won’t ask for something in return.
Biden, on the other hand, never asked for anything as he sent tons and tons and tons of arms to Israel for over a year. And yet, our coreligionsts hate him . Insanity is gripping the world !!All Biden asked for is Israel to hold back from destroying Hamas. Nothing major, right Yechiell?
Can anyone verify if Zelensky met with democrats before coming to the White House
If it did happen then there’s your reason
And if he does ask for something? This is a life and death. if it costs money or land to save Israel but Hamas gets elimnated is it not worth it?? I don’t get your logic. This is an emergency and Hamas must be eliminated or jews may cvs die and suffer. This isn’t just a war to gain some advantages. its a fight for our lives.
Furthermore, Trump is reaping plenty of goodies from having Israel’s back. He gets billions and billions from Pro Israel supporters like Adelson. This beside for the fact that I think he genuinly likes Israel and Jared is jewish. The evangelicals are also pro israel. And so from a transactional aspect, Trump doesn’t reap any benefit from supporting Ukraine but he does reap alot from supporting Israel. And so i don’t see him demanding anything crazy like that
P.S. trump is a crazy man and I can see why you people despise him. I don’t like him either. But you need to detach yourself from any bias and focus on the truth and obvious facts in front of you. Israel is in need of a liver transplant now. its an emergency. Could there be reprecussions later that the body rejects? Maybe . But now isn’t the time to worry about that
@Chaim87
The amount of kefiira you spew is shocking.You said:
” if it costs money or land to save Israel”
No, it cost Jewish blood to save Israel, so long as you keep pushing for war. Death is the price paid for having a Zionist state, both hashkafically and historically.You said
” or jews may cvs die”
First, this is straight kefira. Jews only die, chas’v shulem, because of avairas. We dont save Jewish lives by fighting back, rather that only leads to more (chas v’shulem slaughter.
Second, if you believed that your life was really at any risk to be in Israel (it is, because of the aforementioned sins), you would be obligagted to move somewhere else. You would be obligated to start a mass movement our of the Zionist state because Jewish lives are, chas v’shulem, at risk. But, no, your yester hureh has sold you on the absurd contradiction that: you must do avairas to save jewish lives, but the zionist state is needed to save jewish lives, and the zionist state is currently the safest place for Jews, but Jews must all sacrifice their children to keep the zionist politics in power.Meanwhile the whole Jewish would is praying to Hashem for the downfall of the reshoyim and you, lehavdil, pray to your land for more guns.
>>>1. By cooperating with Russia to end the war on terms favorable to Russia, Trump sends the message that the USA does not keep its commitments
The US never made any commitments the Russia- Ukraine conflict . Trump’s policy and view about the Russia-Ukraine conflict has been pretty consistent since he took public office.
>>>Civil Service, at least for the last 60 years, has been a leading source of employment for frum Jews.
Are you joking or do you mean that 60 years ago civil service was a leading source of employment for frum Jews? A white frum man wearing a yarmulka has about a zero percent chance of getting a civil job unless he has some connections pulling strings for him.
>>> Some of Trumps policies are likely to backfire and increase the chance of a Democratic president with control of Congress by 2029, and perhaps one in which the “Progressive” (WOKE) caucus is dominant.
No matter what Trump does the Democrats have a very high chance of retaking the white house and congress in 2029. The Republicans best bet at keeping it is if the Democrats put up woke candidates
CA: Zelensky met with members of Congress from BOTH parties before his WH meeting.
Look at Vance. He is just like Vivek. “Sure I support Israel but not one penny to help them.” An isolationist. Pray for Trump’s health, Vance is worse. Look at Rubio and Graham. See how quickly they turned their back on Ukraine after getting the message from Our Leader. No one has any morals. Don’t rely on Trump. Don’t rely on Vance. When we rely on them, Hashem takes away his own hashgacha. Look at what Trump made Netanyahu accept? Biden didn’t have the leverage. Trump did. Trump’s video on Gaza makes people hate Jews and Israel. Because it’s ok to hate trump, it’s ok to hate Israel. He surrounds himself with sleazy anti semites like Tucker, etc. He has normalized the anti semites. Be careful before you assume, he is good for the Jews.
Gadol ™ > that can be done surgically and would have very widespread support. Instead, their meat-axe
R Berel Wein recommend an approach to history that judges personalities relative to what alternatives existed at the time, rather than in absolute terms.
In this case, events are fresh and still progressing, so may be too early for non-neviim to judge the outcome, still we already have solid baseline – first Trump term and Biden term that can be presumed similar (at best) to would-be Kamala’s term, lo aleinu.
So, “can be done ” and “better attitude towards Ukraine” are theoretical constructs – realistic D- alternatives are Biden/Kamala’s mindless expansion of government and giving free money “surgically” – to their own supporters (humanity students, unions, etc) and similar mindless Ukraine policy that did not try to achieve nor victory, nor peace, just to make sure there is no second Afghanistan that will hurt them politically.
Would Mitt Romney achieve better results? (1) he would not have a chance because he was not prepared to fight against such dirty allegations as “eighties calling back” (when he called out Russia as enemy) (2) even if he were to become a President, maybe he was not ready to fight real enemies who are not less vicious than democratic media.
coffee, Z met a group of senators from two parties. I think there is a principled disagreement on policy between T and Z:
1) T proposes a new approach that has a good chance to work when everything goes well. This is better than the status quo. Except Z, and his country, are not ready to take chances as it is very personal for them.
2) the plan includes unwritten parts that depend on T’s (or US) will. T knows better what his options are. Z does not. So, there is no meeting of mind.
This is a typical game situation with asymmetric info. Say, coffee is trying to sell me his used car. He knows it is a great car that only drove around the coffee room. So, he is asking for $20K. I suspect that this car travelled to florida and back every month, got into accidents and has fake odometer reading. So, I am offering $5K. We can’t make a deal until we find out how to trust each other.And then there is VP who wants to show off in front of his boss. And feels righteousness because he “found religion”. Don’t joke in front of him about “there is a lot at stake”. He can fire up a literal stake for you.
“CA: Zelensky met with members of Congress from BOTH parties before his WH meeting.“
GH (and by extension Aaq) that could be true but I can fairly assume that the democrats talked Zelensky out of this deal with trump and even told him to argue with trump “to get a better deal” whereas the republicans said nothing when Zelensky met them
Extra kneich to Aaq if GH told you not to believe me because GH says I will go lower if you just disrespect me you only have yourself to blame
LOL once again you and your silly kanios hot headedness. We can go to the other forum to debate zionsim. Thats not for here. The point is lamsa right now the arabs want to kill us. If we gave up the state tommorow believe me they’d come after you so viscously. Its not safe to hand over the keys to blood thirsty monsters. So practically speaking right now, we need Trump to save lives. And if we need to gibe him a piece of real estate so be it. You should be on my team on this one. This isn’t a zionist debate anymore.
We don’t sav Jewish lives by fighting back? Are you for real? You got crazier by the day? Should we hand out candy to Hamas??? POarctcilly speaking what would you do now? Even Satmar wouldn’t say to give back the keys now. You are either a radical NK or just drank too much lachaims? Are purimdik already? You really think if we give it all back Hamas will be nice to us??????
Of course jews are at danger but not the level that everyone should get up and leave EY. There are differnet levels and this is a pretty serious level. Rabbonim didn’t say everyone should pick up and leave Europe after its mnay programs and murders either. You don’t necessarily say to leave. (In fact your Reba told people not to leave during the holcaust nor run away because that would have meant cooperating with zionsists oy vey. Even though R michoel ber zl begged him to. of cours ehe himslef did end up on kastner. But thats a side point)
The “whole jeiwsh world”? I walk in shuls all over Lakewood BP Monsey and they say tehlim that Israel succeed (Not necessarily the chaylim but overall everyone be safe) Noone is praying for thier downfall other than a few nuts in torah vyirah. Go put on your plasteinains kerchif and dance with Weiss YMS yelling free Palestine.
@Baruch D
Fair point except what trump made Israel accept was good for israel.All the frum charedi parties supported the deal. This is the torah way. And here is why;
1) Hostages got let put. We saved lives.
2) We were losing 5 soilders on average prior to the ceasefire. The fighting was getting stale and dangerous.
3) We were at an inflection point. The infrastructure was almost all destroyed and the remaining terrorist’s were in tunnels or disguised as civilians. What more did we have to gain by staying?
4) The wrold was ganging up against us all yelling.So whats the gain now?
1) Hostages are free
2) We had the time to rethink strategy and plan for reentry of war in a kore strategic fashion.
3) Similarly the Hamas heads came out of their caves. I am sure we are using intellgince now to track who is who, how to get them and the remaining command centers.
4) The world got to see the undeniable barbarsim of Hamas. Most people feel eww after the parades and bibas Saga. hamas has less sympathy now.Most of all, Trump anouncing his Gaza plan and level setting with the world finally puts on end to the Hamas charade of attack, rebuild and attack again. The idea that their people are innocent is gone. Bascially the world has to now face the fact that gaza is one big fat cult promoting terror and to rebuild a cult again is useless. they can yell trump is crazy but they know the truth. This is very vital for israel. of course so are the new weapons Trump sent.
And so to say Trump isn’t beyond amazing for Israel is ludicrious. of coue its byad hashem and he sends the messanger and yehusha just look achshverosh saved us from Haman (switch haman and Hamas and you get “NS” or nes!)
Chaim,
When you take a break from war and allow the enemy to rebuild, regroup, and rearm, many more people die. It’s called kicking the can down the road. Israel has done this for years. 1200 Jews died on Oct 7 because *some* Jews may have been saved by giving the terrorists the entire Gaza.
All the Jews who died recently in Lebanon was because Israel didn’t finish eradicating Hezbollah in 2006 to save some Jewish soldiers then. And that battle was because Israel withdrew in 2000, etc.
Imagine if US would have paused WWII every time a soldier was captured.
I am fairly certain that if this came from Biden Bliken you would not say this is amazing. You need to determine for yourself if you’re being biased by your wanting to believe that Trump is super good. Remember this is the exact same package they recommended in Israel turned down until Trump turned up the pressure.
coffee > Extra kneich to Aaq if GH told you not to believe me
?! cool down your coffee. GH and my posts came in the same batch. I do not get private previews from the mods. And when do I do as I am told by either hagadol or hakatan.
Menachem: Why is Israel so stupid that they keep committing suicide, as you explained?
@Baruch D
I am from the few people that liked the Biden deal too. I am even thankful for all Biden has done . But there is a difference. The same deal was under Biden but under Trump there is a no nonsense clause. Trump ain’t falling for the peaceful Palestinian suffering charade . He knows they are all terrorists. Trump is also willing to send the heaviest weapons with no restrictions. Those things matter@Menachem Shmei
To the contrary, Lebanon was pretty quiet till Israel went in now. Nebach a few were nifter now but not too many . Of course every yid is a world. Had we stayed in 2006 a lot of soilders would have died . That’s wasn’t a Great War. But now in 2024 was very successful. It shows that while they rearm so did we. And we outsmarted them. Some times you need a break and Lebanon is a prefect example to prove my point. We can’t wait 18 years now but with a few months break we may be able to do more and outsmart them. Ww2 is a bad example Bec there Hitler was advancing and had to be stopped. Hamas isn’t advancing groundThe whole world knows (& works based on it) that America doesn’t keep it’s commitments. This is not a “Trump” thing. It’s why Israel worked with Russia & China in some areas to somewhat cover themselves if America stopped supporting Israel.
When WWII ended & Germany was carved up it was split between America, Russia, England & France.
Why did France deserve a part? They surrendered & even helped the Nazis. The truth is they didn’t deserve it. But, England pushed for it because they were afraid America as is our custom would pack up & leave leaving England alone to face the Soviets. England demanded including France so at least if America left they’d have another country to face the Soviets.Baruch D. is spot on. It is sad how so many in our community have become brainwashed and excuse away every vile act of Trump and his MAGA cohorts. Sadly frum media bears alot of the blame. Any piece of news that is somewhat negative of Trump is downplayed or ignored. Multiple news sources now report that Russia is discussing Iran with the Trump administration. Will the frum pro- Russia MAGA crowd be ok with a US Russia Iran nuke deal because Bibi doesn’t have the cards?
Eradicating Hamas is not a realistic goal. We are in Golus Yishmael, there are over 1 billion Yishmaelim in the world. The Golus doesn’t end when we kill all our enemies, the Golus ends when we do Teshuva. We waged war in Gaza after Oct 7th, what are the results? More than 800 soldiers have lost their lives, thousands more have been maimed/injured, and Hamas is still alive and kicking!! And now the Smotriches and the Bengvirs want to send in more Jewish soldiers to be killed and maimed Rachmona Litzlan!! Mindboggling!!
Menachem: Why is Israel so stupid that they keep committing suicide, as you explained?
Good question. I’m not sure I have the full answer.
Maybe it’s because the government’s main focus is promoting Zionism, trying to be a nationalist state like all the others, shaking hands with world leaders, instead of prioritizing Jewish lives.
They see themselves as a political entity striving to be like the goyim (and even more goyish than the goyim) because they lack the geon Yaakov to stand up for Yidden and Yiddishkeit without concern for world opinion.
ונהי בעינינו כחגבים וכן היינו בעיניהםMeanwhile, American politicians openly declare that Eretz Yisroel is G-d’s gift to the Jewish people, yet Israel itself traces its legitimacy to the UN’s decision to grant them a “state” with a flag and an anthem.
Instead of following the first Rashi in Torah on how to answer those who claim we stole the Land from the Canaanites or Palestinians (show them in their Bible – G-d created the Land, took it from the nations and vave it to the Jews), the Israeli government concedes that they “took” the “state” a few decades ago.
The Golus doesn’t end when we kill all our enemies, the Golus ends when we do Teshuva.
This is absolutely true.
We waged war in Gaza after Oct 7th, what are the results?
Halacha mandates fighting wars against our enemies whenever they pose a threat, whether in Eretz Yisroel or Chutz Laaretz, in Zman Habayis or in Golus (Shulchan Aruch, Orach Chaim 329).
The problem is that these recent wars were not led by military strategists focused on achieving total victory (as is obligated by halacha), but by diplomats strategizing how to keep other governments happy. This has cost many Jewish lives (think Yom Kippur War, Gaza Disengagement, etc.).
@crazykanoiy
I am sorry but those reports are sketchy at best. Its also just talks and I don’t see anything substantive at of those kinds of things. You have to be completely baised and dishonest not to see how good trump is for Israel so far. After the Trump Gaza plan, new arms shipments, revoking bans on ben Gvir etc. How can you not see that? Especially the Gaza plan is finally a major break trough. No other president had the guts to stand up to the arabs and say we aren’t falling for your charades and games anymore. Gaza is a big cult with 2M terrorists. Trump did that. Thats a huge gain for Israel. We also have his first term to go by and reflect his record on israel.To be clear, I am totally anti Trump on nearly every other issue aside for maybe his transgender fight. When it comes to immigration, Musk, fiscal policy, his crazy Tarriffs or even just the character and type of person him and his ilk are, its revulsive That’s not how a MAGA kool-aid drinker thinks, But to.deny ow good he is for Israel even compared to Biden-Blinken (who were pretty close to second to best) is just completely dishonest.
@Rif,
Why shouldn’t eridcating Hamas or at least its ideology be the goal? Yes we are in golus but just as we did Dubai and the saudis we can’t we buy them with money and opportunity like the Trump plan? Some of it may have to be via combination of foorced exile and some war and the other money.I wouldn’t say we won the war on hamas. But your assesment that they are alive and kicking and therefore nothing was achieved is very narrow. They are aslive and weak. They will need 10 years to rebuild and can’t attack us till then. They are also in a pickle now. Once the guns quite down, sure they can show off they are still alive but now what? How do they rebuild and who gives them money? Who trusts them even among arabs? The rich gulf states did not show up to the Egypt summit and have no interest. Iran is much weaker and I don’t think can afford the $40B needed. now Hamas has to look around at its destruction and see noone wants to help. Thats a success of the war.
Lastly, I don’t see what your other choice is. let Hamas continue to grow again? Like you say we are in golus and can’t fight back ? So what should we do? Under prime minster Rif what would you suggest we do so we don’t get masscared again?
Chaim 87 – Trump’s words are nice but are essentially bluster. Hamas has not bowed to his threats and his Gaza “plan” is pure nonsense. That being said his tone is appreciated but as we see today Witkoff is negotiating with Hamas and Bibi has no idea what he is giving away. All the frum maga minions mindlessly repeating Trump’s lies on Ukraine may soon find themselves looking at things from Zelenskys perspective and that is my point
@crazykanoiy
Trump’s talking to Hamas doesn’t mean anything. That’s Trump. he does those things all the time. At the end of the the day, Trump also tweeted last night that only sick people keep dead bodies and blasted them again. Overall, I think that report is being blown way outo fproportion compared to his overall policy and behavior.Re The Trump Gaza plan. No its not pure nonsense. Its just that you are such a Trump hater that you can admit the truth. And what I mean to say is lets start with the theory. In theory the most sensible thing to do to a city that’s run by a cult and completely destroyed is to rebuild in a way where the people are not dependent on its cult leader. Now you ask but hey the arabs will never agree and neither will hamas so whats the point? The point is that it moves the needle in terms of negotiations. The Arabs realize that can no longer just do business as usual where its rebuilding the same terror infrastructure again to get destroyed. the gulf nations have no interest in contributing to that. It squeezes Hamas further. They can’t play the same charade again.
To your other point, but it didn’t move Hamas. Firstly i think it got them to phase one. Biden/Blinken did a great job and outlining a plan but Hamas refused to bring it to the finishline. Secondly, it takes time but so far what its doing is, its squeezing Hamas. Now Hamas is on a high because just by showing they survived they won. But once they need to govern and need to come onto others, the more Trump threatens and shows the world how monstorus they are, the less sympathy the world has.
Your point about Zelensky is a mute weak point, We know trump is transactional. trump gains nothing from supporting Zelensky. On the other hand form Israel the man gets billions and billions of dollars, his entire base is pro israel from the evangelicals to the Aidelsons. Just from the transactional point of view the comparison is just a very poor analogy.
Chaim is right. Seriously one benefit of Biden was that we could ignore him. But with Trump we are supposed to be beholden to him. Why do we assume that he has our interests and will negotiate something we like rather than to simply continue his pattern of accomplishing something whatever it is that he can brag about? Once again, when we place our faith in anything else, as so much of our community is in fact doing, it is a sign that something is very wrong regardless.
Donald Trump has been an Oheiv Yisroel his entire life. Even long before he ever entered politics. As was his father Fred. And he’s been the most pro-Jewish president in US history.
Chaim 87
“Trump’s talking to Hamas doesn’t mean anything. ” Israel is livid. Bibi is kept in the dark and Israel has always opposed such direct talks. It means a whole lot and it is not good.
“The Trump Gaza plan. No its not pure nonsense.” It is pure nonsense. It is not workable and will never happen. It does nothing to help and just makes the rest of the world disregard American leadership.
“On the other hand form Israel the man gets billions and billions of dollars” Really how is that? Billion and billions??? Trump is transactional. Miriam Adelson’s cash is minuscule compared to what Israel gets from the US. (Even I don’t believe that Trump is corrupt enough to grant enormous sums of aid in return for his donors greasing his pockets. If it is that easy someone should tell Zelensky to get some Ukrainian Americans to make a few campaign contributions.)
Baruch> Seriously one benefit of Biden was that we could ignore him.
it is the difference between a hospice/drug dealer v. a doctor. Biden soothed everyone with excuses – there was no other way out of Afghanistan; we sternly warned Putin but it did not help; I did not find vaccines in the oval office; inflation is supply chain disruption, no just transitory, not just us everywhere, oh look it is already ending; borders are closed, they were open under everyone, look we are already closing them… Trump is trying to address the issues. Is there risk? Sure. Can he be wrong? Sure. Hopefully, he corrects, including by the voter feedback.
@crazykanoiy
` Trump talking to hamas is one tiny blip of disagreemnt. You are grasping on straws. While he talks to them he is tweeting that they will pay for it if they don’t listen. They even hinted on more american involvement. Look people weren’t so ahppy with the whole phase 1 deal that Trump forced upon israel. You will never credit him for that. But once you saw those hostages come home I think we all saw it was needed. It’s very convenient for bias perosn like you to find that one straw and blow it up vs seeing the big picture.Re The Trump gaza plan you miss the point or rather I should say you chose to miss the point. Noone ever suggests it workable. But even you’ll admit in a perfect world it would be the idela plan. From logical perspective thats what sane people would do. Lets say i told you we are rebuilding the towns on LA hit by wildfires or a town hit by sandy. Would you let everyone hang out near the destruction with downed wires and polls or small fires still burning? You’d first nee to clear everyone out for safety. Then we you rebuild would you build in the same way? Some houses in real flood zones with unsafe land will never be rebuilt, others need to rebuilt differently and smarter. You just can’t guarantee that everyone gets their house back. .Now imagine that on top of the destruction you also have a society stuck in a cult like Jonestown who will go on killing spree and die rather than leave. Would you just rebuild Jonestown after a huraaicne or would you try to offer people in its a cult opportunity for a better furutre and to snap out of it?
Do we agree that in a perfect world we should be doing what Trump suggests? If you say no , you are just insane.Now practically exactly as you say it, its not workable. because we are dealing with a cult of terror and crazy people. So whats the gain? It moves the needle and makes the world stop and think. It challenges Egyot while exposing Hamas charade . it further isolates Hamas. All reports are that the gulf states ditched the egypt summit and have no interest in contributing toward its rebuilding. Obviulsy the trump plan will never happen but it fianlly moves the neddle. How far? Who knows. But it moves it. Furthermore, it gives Israel more validlity as people see there are no two sides. There is a reason Hamas is livid with the trump plan. Don’t forget we aren’t looking to make “peace” with Hamas where you’ll argue such plans are not condusive with peace. Israel doesn’t want peace and its not safe to make peace. We are looking to eliimnate and isolate them a smuch as we can. Thats the only way forward. This does that.
Re your point about the money Israel gets. Thats silly. You & I know trump likes to line his own pockets first. He also likes his base. (I also thinks he genuinely respects jews and Jared but leave that aside). What comes out of the govt is not the same as what lines his own pockets and enriches him. That still comes forst by trump. And the pro Israel money lining his pockets are billions and billions.. Side note, This think that he cares so much about govt spending is a farce. trump is a fraud. last time around he spent like a drunken sailor. This is just the way the wind is blowing and for what he wants like his stupid border nonsense he is spending like a durnken sailor. Its all about what enriches trump. So he couldn’t;’t really care less about the USA dishing out money to Israel if its further himsef Meanwhile I don’t see anyone form Ukraine lining his pockets. its a good chance that the Ruskies are lining his pockets more. I am not saying that its just the donors that keep him supporting israel. Its also a principal where he think he hates arabs and is pro isarel. But the money helps a lot and keeps that going. And yes Ukriane was dumb and should have gotten some oligarchs to help him. Trump is indeed corrupt. And so no trump won’t flip on Israel bec he likes himself too much.
All in all, I agree with you that Trump’s polices are horrible and destructive. The man is also morally corrupt with every name in the book. But at the same time its also true that his approach to Israel is very very crucial and important. I think you only deny that because you are bias and it leads to intellectual dishonesty. Its very hard to admit that such a morally corrupt destructive man can be good for jews and israel. you don’t want to believe it and thereffore you wash away the obvious thats staring at you in the face. During these life and death moments which are pivotal for israel, this should override all the other negatives.
crazykanoiy
Trump Admin Cancel $400M in Grants to Columbia Over Failure to Protect Jewish Students
Aagin why trump is good for jews
R’Chaim 87 – Yup. That is good but has nothing to do with anything that I mentioned above. Sadly the frum media generally blocks out anything negative about Trump and the right wing so you won’t read about how Dermer is piping mad at the Trump people for negotiating with Hamas behind Israel’s back and even going so far as to discuss who Israel will release. You wont read about the antisemite hired by the department of defense including a blatant unrepentant antisemite as spokesperson. You also won’t read about all the right wing podcasts hosting neo-nazi, Holocaust deniers and antisemites. Bottom line Trump and his cohorts are all tough on Columbia for left wing antisemitism but virtually ignore it and even enable it on the right
Again why Trump is bad for America and Jews. And sadly this will only become clearer as time progresses r”l.
Ritchie Torres is the only one man enough to speak up and protest the Trump/Hegseth Deputy Pentagon Press Secretary Kingsley Wilson.
A little Trump Purim Torah: Rav and Shmuel disagree whether it was smart or stupid for Ahashverosh to entertain out of town guests first. The assumption there is that the in-towners will be just later. Maybe we are talking about populism here – Ahashverosh, an outsider himself, comes to elevate and flatter his populist “base” at the expense of the elite in the Capital.
And Bibi and co using Trump to give them free reign to cut electricity to Gaza may play well in the short run but will ruin Israel’s standing in the long run among the rest of the world that despises Trump and among many Americans as well. Israel is falling into a trap that will turn them into a pariah nation once Trump is out of office.
@crazykanoiy
Firstly you definitely have a fair point that the frum in general are so biased that they block out anything negative on trump as if trump can do no harm. Its true about the here and there anti semites. And its even more true about non Israel polices that will hurt the frum community disproportionality. Whether its immigration, slashing the DOE, tarrifs etc. this is all bad for us. At the same time, as it pertains to Israel, you are grasping on straws and nit picking. You are doing that because you have such trump hate and can’t bring yourself to admit that he is good for jews on this topic. Therefore you find that small disagreements.Sure Israel was mad at the USA for that. But big picture its a blip. I don’t really see the whole silly symantic as to whether Qatar talks to Hamas or the USA. Either way they are releavnt. Its just a game. In the bigger scheme of things, I’d trust the USA to talk to Hamas over Qatar any day. So there is a downside but its miniscule. Its very clear that the diplomat didn’t give away anything to Hamas. It looks like in fact its prodcuiong reuults and we may save 10 more Jewish lives. And so you need to see the big picture
I don’t take stock in some right wing holocaust denial podcaster. Firstly, there are always crazies and trump didn’t even support them. The left also has crazies. Thats golus and noone is saying its prefect. I only look at policy. The differnece between the right wing and columbia is, that the right wing’s yelling doesn’t affect policy or relevant worldwide issues. At columbia its feeding Hamas which is right now killing and torturing jews. And it also strengthens the UN plus other organizations. So it has real tangible on the moment effects. Furthermore, its threatening jewish students who attend college . A crazy nut job podcatser doesn’t make us jews scared to attend classes or work. And so there are real tangible differences as to why one is more of a threat. That doesn’t absolve the need for Trump to condemn them but the moral equivalence is very different.
Lastly, I get your argument about the long term repercussions both for Israel and Trump. However, this is the point you keep on missing. We are standing now at a pivotal moment. Israel can allow hamas to rebuild or permanently stop them. If the prior that emans many will die and suffer in a few years down the road. Under a Biden / Blinken adminstation despite their true goodness for israel and I believe that with a full heart, that’s what would have happened. Because thats just ahow diplomacy works. Brong peace now and kick the issues down the road. But that spells more detah for israel. israel is right now like a pateint with liver failure who needs a new liver. Sure, its the futrue is dangerous and a liver transplant is hard. But it needs to be bold now and not worry about the future. Another way to say it is how the lubvutacha reba said it years ago when israel almost had Damscus and stopped short of capturing it. The UN will yell anyhow, so now they will yell a little louder. In short, israel can’t afford to worry about world opnion now. It needs to save itself now. if tuning off water and electric plus aliiging with trump helps that, then do it. We need to think short term to squeeze Hamas.
And lastly again, the trump gaza plan is a wake up call to the world and extremely wise. Of course it will never happen but the shake up that it did. The world now has to face the facts of the relaity it always tried to cover up. Finally a man who has the guts to tell them they are full of it and all 2M arabs are part of a cult of terror. Whatever plan is produced, the world can no longer accept business as usual.
To summarize my very detailed response, Trump is not our savior nor perfect. he is also a very and president plus immoral. But only an intellectually dishonest person would chose to look the trees and nitpick vs the forest. There is no question that for Israel’s sake this is whats needed and whats good for them. I say that at such a pivotal moment all his other craziness is worth the price. But yes that doesn’t mean the the frum emdia should just ignore the other issues.
UJM: Look at what you wrote just some time ago. He is taking Russia’s side. He is threatening leaving NATO. The Tarrifs are not “just a threat”. This is the problem that I am referring to. We have trouble seeing him for what he is.
Crazy K. So refreshing, Trump has normalized the lunatic right. Carlson sitting next to him during nomination. Elon has a history of endorsing weird conspiracy stuff. Doesn’t know who David Duke is. Has lunch with Fuentes by accident. The immigration zar has a history of unknowingly going on Nazi podcasts. The defense spokeswoman has a history of antisemitic posts. The GOP is being ruined by him. JD a not so secret isolationist who will talk the talk but not help with finances. And Trump is such a despicable caricature that he has made it PC to hate Jews because of his ridiculous movies of hanging out in Gaza with Netanyahu. All of this is major. “But his policies are good!” First, that is not always true. Second, the other issues are nothing to overlook. Rachmanas.
Boruch – Thank you. You are spot on. Couldn’t agree with you more. Sadly the frum media and especially the frum media has become a MAGA populist echo chamber.
Chaim 87 – I appreciate your points though I thoroughly disagree with many of them. Joe Rogan, Tucker Carlson and Elon Musk can do a whole lot more damage to the standing of yidden in America and support for Israel then a few crazy college kids Where I totally lose you is when you resort to over the type hyperbole and pontification. Things like “only an intellectually dishonest person” would chose to disagree with what I believe to be correct and if I consider it “nitpicking” then the concerns raised are invalid belies a lack of openness to rigorous debate and does nothing to help further serious dialogue. In truth even while I disagree with you I do appreciate the tenor of the majority of your comments just not the pontificating part.
Baruch > Trump has normalized the lunatic right.
Given how close recent elections are, it is inevitable that the lunatic side of either party is going to matter. Biden was constrained in his ME policies by arab voters in just one state – MI… Jews used to be decisive in FL but it is not a battleground state any more. Maybe Jews should move to PA in big numbers to matter.
There are also lunatics that are party-neutral. Trump moved a lot of them from being seekers of Dem giveaways to aggrieved fighters with immigrants.
Trump can’t even boast about his vaccine development – because anti-vaccine kooks are on his side. Anybody noticed – in his recent speech, he mentioned – “even if I were to save the world from a disease”. I think he meant the vaccine that he could not name.@crazykanoiy
I think the issues you raise don’t really hurt Jews that much. Just as you see with the maga Jews that nothing Trump does can be bad because they drink the maga kool aid , I see that with you. I don’t think it’s intentional but I think your mind is gravitating to the trees vs the forest. Humans tend to believe what they want to. It’s very difficult to truly be honest intellectually when there is such high emotions such as with Trump. I find this to be the case on both sides of the aisle.I saw you threw in musk as a Jew hater. There is no proof to that other than how he moved his hands once without thinking. He was attacked for some bizarre Nazis salute. If you step back and think logically why would musk even do that in public? He also denied that intention. It makes no sense . But the conclusion right away is that he is a Nazis. That’s exactly how things get blown up. And to be fair, musk is very dangerous. That further eggs people on to hate him and rightfully so. But it clouds judgement from the obvious which is that he never intended to salute despite how despicable of a person he is.
And so back to Trump and Israel. Of course what’s going on in colleges have a huge impact. It’s why Biden delayed certain weapons shipments to Israel and condemned them a few times. It’s also physically scary for the students who are present in college. It’s tangibley dangerous right now. Will Carlson fame fade away or will he have a greater influence on Americans in the future? I don’t have a glass ball nor will I stand here and defend him. (.personally I think the man just wants attention and has no ideology at all)
I get your concern about future repercussions.
Boruch D I get what you are saying . I wouldn’t call your concerns secondary issues. But I think what both you and crazy knoy miss is that, this is an emergency right now. There is no time to think . We need to do what’s best right now because it’s the worse it’s been since the holocaust. Trump clearly doesn’t fall for Hamas charades and has Israel’s back on this . It’s the first time the Arabs and the U.N. Are being told to their face that all 2m Palestinians are terrorists . Don’t fall for the charades. And the world can’t deny it anymore. It finally sets the playing field and ups the aunte. That with Israel having the green light plus bringing hostages home are all so important that if that’s the price to pay for having Trump we will clean up his mess later
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