How to increase Tzinius

First step in AWARENESS. Educate the public about hilchos tznius, & maybe learning a bit every day.

Ask your local rov

and its not for a forum

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People should realize that alot of this isn’t the women’s fault. They don’t just wake up in the morning and say, “how am I going to get dressed not tznius today?” They get encouraged by their husbands to dress a certain way. If both the husbands and wives would realize that a wife should look beautiful for her husband (i.e. in their home), and not for everyone else (i.e. outside the home), then maybe both of them wouldn’t feel like she has to dress up so shtotty before she goes out of the hgouse everyday,

I’ve always been taught that tzniut was at least as much about “insides”: That when I truly internalize torah values, that I will naturally want to dress and express myself modestly and the relatively small numbers of specific halachot regarding dress will not be an issue.

Maybe if we did more to teach about the beauty of Tznius as well as bolstering our children’s self confidence they wouldn’t feel the need to attract attention in such a goyish manner.

We should teach how the attitude some jewish women have is precisely what reform taught – during the haskala, the teshuvah seforim had to address situations and shailos from men who asked how to make kiddush if their wife’s neckline was exposed, or other unheard-of shailos – and that was in the 1800’s. kal vechomer today. Rav Avigdor Miller ZTVK”L taught us powerful lessons about how the holocaust was midah keneged middah in every aspect of observance which klal yisroel abandoned in europe – tznius was one of them; because they did not dress modestly they were forced to be naked r”l and humiliated. Such powerful lessons need to be taught to today’s youth. The loss of tznius is the result of a bigger problem, a lack of understanding that you cannot raise a child in a home with televisions, internet(although yeshivanet is doing something wonderful, in my opinion), magazines and other poison and expect them to be yireh shamayim without painfully breaking themselves of their upbringing once they realize they have been thinking like a goy all their lives – sadly this is what happened to me, and I do not want anyone to experience that pain.

We need to take responsibility, first and foremost. It does not matter if something will drive people away – if someone will, chas veshalom, leave yiddishkeit because of not being able to flaunt one’s body, than you cannot blame chinuch or being ‘judgemental’ – you can blame whoever taught them the shtus. We live in a time when if you tell someone anything is the least bit wrong – you’re some kind of preacher or fanatic – this is not the 60’s where people did whatever they wanted and if, g-d forbid, someone voiced sechel, they were met with ‘get off my back, man’ inbetween pulls of marijuana.

Where is the line drawn? Why is it not considered judgemetal to tell your kids to keep shabbos or kosher? Why is it davka the things that america considers tabboo that we cant teach our kids? Why is it that if someone tells as girl how to dress they are judgemental, but if they say not to break shabbos they’re just doing chinuch? Same with pre-marital relationships and everything in that whole sphere – it’s a doubel standard with a line that can be drawn exactly where american attitudes draws it – when will we wake up?

Being judgemental is judging the person. If you tell a girl who is immodest that she’ll roast in gehinnom..thats not torah and that is judgemental, but that is as far as the concept extends.

Education isn’t the only thing – in places like shuls and other centers of the kehilos there has to be a zero tolerance policy for these issues – we can offer women tzniusdige clothing to wear just when they’re in shul(kind of like how they have talisim outside the shuls) just to instill a community-wide stance on tznius. Nothing is going too far, and nothing is to be considered ‘fanatical’. Like I wrote before, we can take a real lesson from the charedim in eretz yisroel – they react to the poisons of immodesty firmly and uncompromisingly, and so should we, even if that means ruffling a few feathers in the communities that are dens of this illness.

Behavior has to be tziyusdik also. The furniture in your house,the lamps,your cars,all should be avrage,not show-off styles. This ” I got to out-do the other”attitude is the root cause. The police have uniforms,the army,nurses,etc all have special uniforms. Our b’nei and b’nos Torah also have uniforms. They show others who we proudly belong to.Don’t bring goyishe magazines (esp. fashion) or catalogs into your homes. Don’t watch TV,esp the commercials. Don’t follow the goyishe world,where the dress of the President’s wife can be a headline article. What a person wears is not always in tune of what he IS. But it SHOULD be. Tzniyusdig behavior by decently dressed people,not only in shul,but also at vacation places.What’s the point of making sure there is no shaatnez in your garment if it is not tzniyusdig?

WE will inhance the it by minding your own business.

One of the problems is that people look for kulas in this area. Chalila that we should ever be mekil on our kashrus, but when it comes to tznius, we look for the easy way out; it covers the knee sometimes, but if you move this way it doesn’t, or it covers everything, but is really too tight, or the sheital covers every hair, but no one can even tell that it’s not real hair… Tznius is a mitzvah like any other and must be treated as such. We cannot play games looking for ways to push the boundaries of the spirit of the law while remaining true to the letter. A few simple rules that Rabbonim (as well as parents) should set forth: if it doesn’t work in every physical position you may find yourself in, don’t wear it; if you will have to keep an eye on it all day, don’t wear it; if it is the bare minimum of muttar, avoid it; regarding sheitals, if people have to do a double take, don’t wear it! Either get a sheital that looks like a proper sheital or stick with teichals and snoods! By the way, men, tznius applies to you too, and the fault is not entirely with women. Men need to behave in a tzanua manner, and make sure not to draw unnecessary attention to themselves either.

just me – Firstly – the eruv has some support, sort of, and while of course it should be taken down permanently, those people at least think there’s a yesh al ma lismoch. Same with questionable hechsherim. However, do you see them eating treif, or carrying without some rabbis saying it’s ok? NO. That’s becuase the tznius issue has NO yesh al ma lismoch. It is a blatant obscene violation of the ratzon hashem, with no two sides about it. People won’t listen to screaming about eruvin – why? because they have something to be soymech on. Same with the hechsherim(“what? this rabbi isn’t good enough for you?” type of responses, at least make sense to an am haaretz in halacha).

The bochurim who smoke hid behind allies – why davka in places where no one sees them? it’s embarrassing, and they know it is wrong and will not do it in public, which means they’ll probably stop eventually. The whole issue with these women is that it is being done befehesya with the maximum amount of damage. – the fact that people like you keep aying it’s no big deal, and the prevailing culture and ideology of the goyim wich tells them it’s normal and healthy for a woman to dsigrace her kedusha by becomign a walking micshol, which I think influences even ehrliche yidden into thinking, unconsciously, that this issue isn’t as big. Smoking is a terrible thing, but I am sorry – in halacha tznius is a more severe inyan than smoking. At best(al pi halacha), smoking cigarettes is a sakana, which endangers one person – tznius is an issur dioraisa with certain types of transgressions being a chiyuv kares, and it makes others do aveiros. I’m not saying smoking is ok – it’s not, but it is a separate issue which has no bearing on the discussion of tznius(after all, the forum is about tznius – anytime there’s a problem we can always pass the buck to another problem; why bother with problem A, problem B is there too! is an answer that in essence means, there’s more than one problem, but since there’s more than one, let’s forget about the original one! it’s just a rhetorical trick.

I never said for the average yid to go up to people on the street – that doesn’t work, however action must be taken.

Matisyohu28, Gut gezokt! yoshi, please refer to the comment before by Matisyohu28. Tznius is an Issur De’oraysa, While smoking maybe wrong, but yes, there are Rabonim who say smoking is not assur (only if you were smoking till now, but not to start, I think) and there are big Talmidei Chachomim who smoke. And even if it is a problem, but like Matisyohu28 said, just because you have one problem, is not a reason not to deal with a different problem.

I believe we are discussing tznious here, and smoking is a major lack of tznious. you say smoking is a “bigger” issue here, yet you say talmidei chachomim are smoking, and just because they are smoking does not make it right, and the fact that “highly respected” yidden are doing such things while people look the other way shows how much people DON”T think it’s a big deal.

For those of you who are ignorant to the facts of smoking, I pulled this up from a government website:

Cigarette smoking causes 87 percent of lung cancer deaths and is responsible for most cancers of the larynx, oral cavity and pharynx, esophagus, and bladder.

Secondhand smoke is responsible for an estimated 3,000 lung cancer deaths among U.S. nonsmokers each year

Tobacco smoke contains thousands of chemical agents, including over 60 substances that are known to cause cancer.

And for those of you who do not view it as a tznious issue, Let me put it in to perspective for you, Just like you’re saying that women are looking like non jews, the way they are dressing, and making men uncomfortable, and do aveiros not only do smokers look non jewish and make not just women, but everyone around you uncomfortable, and have bad thoughts about you, when you smoke, you look trashy and low class to people of all faiths.

Al Tarbe Sicha im Isha. Notice the mishne clearly stresses your own wife and it does not say al tarbe “dibbur” , rather Sicha. See what some of the miforshim on the mishna have to say about Sicha (as opposed to dibbur) in general.

Once done, then read the next line of the mishna “bishto amru, kal vechomer…..”. Chazal knew exactly what they were talking about. Problem is, we think we are smarter than them.

YGmonsey – you’re 100% right. I ever understood why so many girls ride bikes in flatbush, and rollerblade – it calls attention to them and is certainly not tznius, but I don’t understand what’s wrong with ipods, maybe it’s a chisaron in my own notion of tznius, but I dont see how an ipod is untznius.

Matisyohu28- When I said I Pods, what I really meant to say was headphones. This is one of many examples of girls attracting attention.

I totally disagree that there is anything wrong with frum girls riding bikes or jogging or doing anyting necessary for exercise, if they are dressed properly. The most unhealthy thing in the world is not to exercise. Even the Rambam says so in Hilchos Dayos. Anybody who asurs girls from exercising is a chosid shoteh who thinks that his conception of “tznius” is more important than saving a life.

Men, it is all in your own head. It is up to you to control your own yetzer hara, and not to let your own failures cause you to make women’s lives miserable and unhealthy.

If a man has a problem, then should we asur women from even walking? Maybe not let them outside at all. Maybe go to the burka. There are halachos of what is permissible dress. If these are kept, it is up to the men to do the rest, not to force women to do more because of men’s weakness.

Doesn’t gemara in beginning of Sota say it was normal for men and women to converse in the marketplace? It says that if a man was mekanai his wife, then it is painful for the women because everybody will say mai hai dka bodeles min haanoshim (what is going on with this woman that she stays away from men). The gemara says clearly that it is abnormal for a woman not to be able to converse with men, as long as its not excessive (al tarbeh), but not a normal amount of pleasant everyday menschlach conversation.

Anybody who thinks that meeting an old friend at a wedding and speaking to him and his wife or something similar should be forbidden, is trying to Talibanize our religion of menschlachkeit. I have never seen any outlandish, inapropriate behavior at a wedding between married couples.

here’s a suggestion

on Shabbos, when you are walking down the streets

tilt your hat forward

walk with your head down so you can see six feet of sidewalk in front of you

some will think you are anti social.

some will think you are overly pious and silly.

some perhaps might be a little sensitized towards tznius

in any case you will have gained a great deal of Schar

and maybe saved yourself from some quality time in Gehinnom