- This topic has 27 replies, 12 voices, and was last updated 14 years, 4 months ago by .
-
Posts
-
When Shabbos ends we do Havdalah differently with a child instead of an adult drinking Wine or Grape Juice. Is this correct? What are relevent Halachas to remember when doing Havdalah.
We do it too-my father has in mind he is being yotzei the child and the child has it in mind it too.
It is perfectly OK and some hold preferable to do Havdalah as you usually do.
Eishel Avraham 551; Chazon Ish (quoted in Imrei Yosher, pg. 4)
Some prefer a minor drink the wine.
The preferred minor for this purpose is a boy beyond the age of chinuch but who is not yet old enough to understand the concept of mourning the destruction of the Beis ha-Mikdash
Mishnah Berurah 551:70. [It is difficult to define the age of such a child.]
If such a child is not present, any boy under bar mitzvah age will do.
I think beer is not on the x list for the 9 days, so maybe you could use that?
Some suggest beer (or other chmar Medina)
The minhag I grew up with – and continue – is to use beer for the 9 days. I’m assuming the OP is about the 9 days, although he didn’t say.
I thought yankdownunder was referring to havdalah in general-not just the 9 days.
why don’t you ask your Rav?
I have no issues, as I use bronf’n the year round for Havdala; scotch generally and slivovits or arak on Peasch. My zeides and ihr zeides on both sides of my family were noheg thus.
1)You hold the kois in your right hand and the besamim in your left hand. If you run out of hands after those two have someone else hold the candle.
2)Then you say everything until and including borei pri hagofen.
3)You put down the besamim switch the kois to your left hand and pick the besamim back up in your right hand.
4)Then you make a borei minei besamim.
5)Then you put down the besamim hold your right hand to the fire and make a beorei meorei ha’eish.
6)Then you transfer the kois back to your right hand and conclude havdallah.
7)Sit down (if you stand) drink most of the kois.
8a)Then extinguish the candle in the puddle on your plate (if your wife doesn’t let you spill on the floor) by pouring from the kois onto the candle.
8b)If you are worried about your house burning relight the candle.
9)Finish drinking.
10)Make al hagefen.
11)Sing hamavdil bein kodesh lechol, change out of Shabbos clothing and have melave malka. Say gut voch to everyone.
“8b)If you are worried about your house burning relight the candle.”-thats funny cuz s/o recently told us about that and we just started doing it! I thought its very random but hey if s/o else heard of it it must be true!
I would add 9b) put the wine on your forehead and pockets…(at least this is what we do in our house)
oooh yeah i forgot about that. The sefer Minhag Yisroel Torah (I feel like I got that name wrong its a few volume set on so many minhagim and their mekoros) says that he looked for a mekor for sechel and gelt and couldn’t find any anywhere. He asked many gedolim and they didn’t know either. But he saw that they did it anyway since “minhag Yisroel Torah”.
What’s actually brought down in halachah is to “wash your eyes with the wine” to show chavivus hamitzvah. Maybe people didn’t want to burn there eyes out from the alcohol content and put it on their eyelids and their kids thought they were putting it on their foreheads etc.
I’ve also heard that there’s a minhag to put on the place where the kesher of the teffilin shel rosh is.
I think the reason you put it on your pockets is for gelt!
Yeah, I called it “sechel (forehead)and gelt (pockets)”. I meant that there was no mekor for doing so, but that we do it anyway because it became the minhag.
8b)If you are worried about your house burning relight the candle.
I know this will sound stupid, ignorant and probably heretical, but how does reigniting a candle lessen the chance of a house burning down?
The Wolf
I always thought that the source for annointing oneself with Havdalah winde was a Toseffta in Pesachim that says that psiah gassah takes away 1/60th of one’s eyesight. The cure is Havdalah wine.
Wolf:
I forgot where i saw it, I’d imagine it would probably be found in the sefer “minhag Yisroel Torah”, that its a segulah to relight the havdalah candle after you put it out to prevent a fire in the house.
cantoresq:
Where is this tosefta? The only thing I found is the gemarah in Pesachim 42a “3 things … and take 1/500th of a persons sight:pas kiver (buried bread??) fresh bear and fresh vegetables (see rashi)…3 things…and enlighten the eyes: clean bread, fatty meat and old wine”.
The psiah gassah thing is from Berachos 43b and Shabbos 113b that psiah gassah takes away 1/500th of a persons sight and the cure is kiddush on friday night (some say from drinking the wine and others from looking at the neiros durring kiddush)
Wolf:
I forgot where i saw it, I’d imagine it would probably be found in the sefer “minhag Yisroel Torah”, that its a segulah to relight the havdalah candle after you put it out to prevent a fire in the house.
Oh. In my limited brain capacity and ultimate stupidity, I did not realize it was a “segulah” type thing. I thought it was a “practical advice” issue and I could not, for the life of me, figure out how reigniting a candle reduced the chances of a fire.
How heretical of me not to realize that.
The Wolf
wolf:
Why the extreme sarcasm and negativity? Theres a source for all of these segulos. The Gedolim from hundreds of years ago did all these segulos with the wine and the relighting the candle and sniffing the candle. Theres a reason for everything even if you dont know it. No reason to give attitude.
wolf:
Why the extreme sarcasm and negativity? Theres a source for all of these segulos. The Gedolim from hundreds of years ago did all these segulos with the wine and the relighting the candle and sniffing the candle. Theres a reason for everything even if you dont know it. No reason to give attitude.
Ah, I see. You misunderstood me.
I wasn’t ridiculing the segulos. Heck, I put grape juice in my pockets each week too. I was stating that, in my complete and utter ignorance, I had never heard that this was a segulah. I thought it was a “practical advice” type of suggestion.
My apologies if it came out sarcastic. That wasn’t my intent. Yes, I’ve been a bit negative of late, but not sarcastic. I was merely being self-critical of my ignorance.
The Wolf
Derech HaMelech wrote:
Where is this tosefta? The only thing I found is the gemarah in Pesachim 42a “3 things … and take 1/500th of a persons sight:pas kiver (buried bread??) fresh bear and fresh vegetables (see rashi)…3 things…and enlighten the eyes: clean bread, fatty meat and old wine”.
fresh bear? Does this include 600 Kilo Polar Bears? If you were attacked by one of those you might chas veshalom lose a lot more than 1/500th of your eyesight.
chofetzchaim:
Well for all you know it could have meant looking at a young bear just like you can’t look at engraved letters on a tombstone.
As I side note, I realize why they don’t teach Gemarah to very young children. Can you imagine if your 5 year old learned the gemarah that eating fresh vegetables is harmful to you?
Also if your wives decide its time to cut down on the marrow bones in the chulent, you can tell them that you need it for your eyesight.
blinky
Member
I think the reason you put it on your pockets is for gelt!
I once heard that someone would actually pour the wine into his pockets. Apparently it was a segulah for parnassah for the cleaners.
😉
Derech HaMelech – if you use wine or grape juice, be careful that it’s not kedushat sh’veet. If it is,, you can’t put the candle out in the puddle (and you shouldn’t have a puddle).
We have cases of grape juice that my wife got on sale, and it’s all kedushat sh’veet. We don’t put the candle out in it, except for last Shabbat – during the nine days we use beer.
I asked my Rosh Kollel and he told me I should use wine. I don’t really buy anything by the case so I don’t have anything that has kedushas shvi’is. I don’t even think that I ever did anyway.
kapusta
I believe the actual segulah for having the havdalah cup overflow (don’t know what its for anymore) is to have it spill onto the floor.
Unfortunately though, thats also a segulah for bad shalom bayis.
Derech HaMelech, it’s been a long time since I saw i that Toseffta; some 25 or so years. I’m relying on girsa d’yankusa in my reference to it.
“I think the reason you put it on your pockets is for gelt!
I once heard that someone would actually pour the wine into his pockets. Apparently it was a segulah for parnassah for the cleaners.”
Kapusta-haha
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.