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“I have spent much of my life studying Torah and based on this study- and not on anything else- I think that what these men do is wrong.”
if you have become so deadened, so far from your Mothers, that you dont understand the intense conscious and subconscious power of a greeting between a man and a woman, or an exchange of smiles, then youll just have to go home and nurse your “embarrassment”.
i know, as does everyone how it feels to not have a greeting returned. it’s not pleasant, but to blow it up into “PUBLIC EMBARRASSMENT”, i think you went way too far in making your point, which it is all too clear has nothing to do with embarrassment but rather to how YOU (not the Torah) and your alien philosophies want men to behave, nothing more. this is clearly the underlying reason behind all your remarks, even if you dont know it.
I say a “Shabbat Shalom,” to everyone I pass by on Shabbat, whether they are a 5 year old, a young man, an old folk, etc. It doesn’t make a difference to me, I just think it’s a nice thing to do. If I don’t get a response, oh well, so be it, moving right along, nothing to see here.
I can understand it to be an “uncomfortable,” situation, when a woman offers a hand shake to a man (&/or the other way around). I’ve seen this happen many times, and it’s extremely awkward on both sides. Some people happen to be more sensitive than others.
I’m not going to side with either party. I don’t know who this person is, where they came from, if they even heard me, or if they weren’t Jewish and I just confused the heck out of them hehehe. If you think of it like that, you will find yourself feeling a little less embarrassed or upset about the situation.
Feivel,
Evreybody is intrested in the “Emes of the ribono shel olam”,
you dont KNOW that your mehalach is right anymore then Feminist knows hers is right
the only diffrence is that in any debate based purely on torah AND LOGIC her mehalach would almost definetly win.
Evreybody is intrested in the “Emes of the ribono shel olam”
ALAVAI!
“Torah AND LOGIC”
there is no logic other than Torah
please capitalize Torah
thank you
Feivel,
thinking pepole try to live there lives according to the mehalach that makes the most sense to them,
or they follow rabbonim who’s ideas make the most sense to them (of course there are those that just blindly do whatever mehalech there parents happen to hold of so if they are born to non frum parents they wouldnt be frum ect.)
this is usaly how we decide what type of school to send our kids to (yeshivish, modern , chassidish ect.) among other decisions.
to assume that your mehalach is the only correct way either because you happen to have been brought up with that mehalach or because it makes the most sense to you (especialy if you almost certainly wouldnt win a debate with the person who’s shitos you are opposing!) smacks of intellectual dishonesty and ignorance.
Feivel,
Thinking pepole try to follow the mehalach that makes the most sense to them,
or they follow rabbonim who’s ideas make the most sense to them (of course there are those that just blindly do whatever mehalech there parents happen to hold of so if they are born to non frum parents they wouldnt be frum ect.)
this is usaly how we decide what type of school to send our kids to (yeshivish, modern , chassidish ect.) among other decisions.
to assume that your mehalach is the only correct way either because you happen to have been brought up with that mehalach or because it makes the most sense to you (especialy if you almost certainly wouldnt win a debate with the person who’s shitos you are opposing!) smacks of intellectual dishonesty and ignorance.
if you have internet exposed to your younger children they r in danger of getting dragged into it dont laugh off wat im saying i saw it in pure young children growing up become a diff. person completely bec. of the internet
posheteryid1-my parents also tried that…
my father is the only who has the password and its the best thing in the world im older so i dont care as much the younger kids hate that they have no access to it but imagine my parents arent home nobody is in the house my brother is like 16 now these r teenage boys you know wat that means… so its a really positive thing even though theyl give a hard time about it theyl say wat you dont trust me??? but deep down they know your right and your only doing it to protect them
“and you wear pants, and are proud of your mother’s red wardrobe, and proudly use an ugly word for an ism that has stood in direct opposition to the Torah for 50 years”
Yes, I wear pants; in fact, I’m wearing a pair of khakis right now. Az mah?
As I have stated before, I am not “proud” of my mother’s red wardrobe (which, by the way, she doesn’t own anymore; this was thirty years ago), nor do I think that it’s anything of which to be ashamed. This too is irrelevant to the current topic.
As also stated before, feminism as I view it (I add this because your conception of what feminism actually is seems to be dramatically different than mine) is actually an integral part of the Torah and could never oppose it. I think feminism is a beautiful word, and it stands for the way I live my life (call it a “modern derech” or whatever you want, I don’t care.) Feminism has been around for a long time. What changed 50 years ago that suddenly made it unacceptable for feminism to coexist with Torah philosophy?
I’m not quite sure why you put the word “learn” in quotation marks in reference to my statement that I have spent a great deal of time studying Torah. I’ll assume that you meant no insult by it. I haven’t attended seminary, or Stern, or Drisha, or any such institution that might give me “credentials”, nor do I feel that I have “goyish attitudes” which I justify through my Torah study. (I don’t generally like to use the terms “goy”, “goyim”, or “goyish”, since they have derogatory connotations.) I’m sorry that I’ve somehow given you this image of myself. Weren’t you the one who said in a different discussion that I seemed to have good middot?
“You are just another unfortunate Yid destroyed by Golus, and you are so absorbed by it as to be proud.”
Wow…it’s interesting that you feel qualified to make the assessment that I am “destroyed” given that you have never met me. I am quite sure, however, that I am indeed “absorbed” by the distractions of galut to some degree- aren’t we all? I don’t know what your pride reference is about, though; do you think that I am proud of this absorption, or proud of my “destruction”, or proud of my lack of “credentials”…?
“i’m somewhat sorry if this is harsh, but when you dare try to use the Torah HaKodesh to defend your anti-Torah outlook, I am unable to just sit by such sewage quietly.”
I somewhat forgive you.
I see nothing “daring” in living a Torah-observant lifestyle, which for me necessarily includes feminism. I have already been called “anti-Torah” (although never outside of these boards) so I am not really surprised that you chose to paint my views with that particular epithet, but I am still saddened, and quite offended. Imagine then how I must feel when you call my entire belief system- which is carved out of years of Torah learning- sewage.
I’m sorry that you feel that you can’t just “sit by quietly” and refrain from attacking me, but I must reiterate the sentiment that has been expressed on this website far too often already- that we must all imagine as we type that the person to whom we direct our comments is standing in front of us. These are not just words on a screen; they are people’s lives and emotions, and we must all take special care to avoid alienating and offending our brothers and sisters of Am Yisrael. Because we are all one family, and I hope that if the two of us were to meet in person, you would not treat me as you have done here.
You seem to feel that I have overstated my point; I think you have understated it in saying that an unreturned greeting causes an “unpleasant” feeling. I must respectfully disagree with you here. “Public” is your word, not mine. It doesn’t matter if the street is completely empty save for myself and the man I have just greeted; I am still embarrassed when he fails to respond. Embarrassment has nothing to do with the presence of other people.
I see from your posts that you feel I am too sensitive, but I believe that men who don’t return greetings are acting insensitively, and I’m not going to apologize for this belief, no matter how many times you tell me that I am “deadened” or something of that nature. This is not about my wanting to control the way men behave or injecting “alien philosophies” into their behavior, but it is a matter of simple courtesy.
I am well aware that a smile and a few words can have a great deal of power. So too can a LACK of a smile and a brief greeting. I think the problem here is that you cannot see the tremendous damage that is done when men refuse women basic acknowledgment.
One final point: I think it’s highly presumptuous of you to suggest that you know better than I do the “underlying reason” behind my words and actions.
jfem,
I would be one of those people that wouldn’t greet a non-related woman on the street. However, if somebody would greet me, I would definitely reply which would after all be the polite, normal and Torah way.
I think why some men don’t reply is 1)They are not used to it and caught by surprise 2) Since it does not happen to them often instinctively “think” that the right thing to do is to not respond. If they would ask a Rabbi or have time to think about it most would probably agree that they should reply. 3) If somebody knows you personally and feel that you are trying to impose your outlook on life and your values on them, then they might not reply.
BTW don’t let strangers’ comments get to you. They don’t know you or your personality. Take it in stride.
Thanks head. What you say makes a lot of sense, although I don’t think anyone I know personally would refrain from responding if I said “Good Shabbos” to them. Then again, I do travel in different circles than most of the people on this website! Certainly, if I knew that a friend of mine had chosen to take on this stringency, then I would not greet him. (Although, in that case, how could we be friends in the first place? And if it were a relative, what would be the problem?) I will add, however, that if someone I knew personally did not respond to me, I would be far more hurt than if it were a stranger.
IN out of town places everyone knows everyone pretty much and its very accepted that you say good shabbos to them however in bklyn flatbush and bp ecspecially most ppl wont respond to you for sure not men to women thats not accepted here at all
Joe,
I see you got very few responses to your question 🙂
there is a free internet filter called K9. it has multiple levels and is very customizable. It was created by a corporate internet security firm and this is their “freebie” but it has top ratings. don’t recall the website off hand but google K9 internet or something and it’ll come up. Hatzlacha
Don’t let them on the computer.
mazal77, it’s not so simple. If you try to deny something to your children entirely, they will look for it elsewhere. Better for them to have safe Internet access at home- with inappropriate sites blocked- than unlimited access elsewhere. No matter how hard you try to make it impossible for them to get onto the Internet, if they are determined enough, they will find a way.
jewishfeminist02, i couldn’t agree more
Hi, I did a little research and found this softwares that can help monitoring your kids:
as someone mentioned earlier, keep the computer in a public room, where the parents are able to monitor what the child is watching. keep communication lines open. warn your children about chat rooms,and never to meet with these people privately.
i found a program http://www.toplang.com/internetlock.htm which allows you to block access to internet in general…youll have to read the guide on the site or post here with questions, which i can try to answer…but im pretty sure this should work to block access to your internet unless you have the password
Make sure you dont give your kids devices that have Wifi access. You could walk along any street in the frummest neighborhood and hop onto an open network. these devices will find that network and all your filters, passwords and open computer rooms are meaningless.
Yeshiva Net is extremely effective and worth every penny and the minor annoyance in having to request specific sites and waiting 5 minutes to get the access. Once access is granted it stays open (assuming it’s a approved site).
It is perfect for people who don’t need to search the web constantly but have 20/50/80 however many sites that they frequent again and again.
They do allow open internet for finite periods of time (if someone needs it for whatever reason) and it is monitored.
To the best of my knowledge it can not be overridden as it’s not a filter nor a password.
yes it is a great service, because it is blacklisted on their end. although there are ways around even that.
It really must almost be Purim, AZ posted in a thread which does not push his agenda!!!!! 😉
asdfghjkl: AZ has no agendas – but thanks for the plug…..
bumped for the sole purpose of getting attention from Lilmod Ulelamaid;)
Hi there! I was wondering. I thought you said once that you’re single (am I remembering correctly?) – so I was trying to figure out why you would bump a thread about protecting your kids from the internet.
+1,000
Actually, the title of this thread suggests that it is the internet that needs protecting from your kids.
WtP, I was thinking the same thing! +1
Children, even teenagers, should not have unsupervised Internet access at all. Filters are not perfect. That means no smartphones either. Otherwise they WILL access inappropriate material. At least some will. In the non-Jewish world most have been exposed to such things by the time they’re 10 years old. It’s just too easy to find. Rachmana Litzlan.
Ditto WTP & TM 🙂
Lilmod Ulelamaid: what do you mean? I need to gather up all the ammunition I can get now so that when I have kids ill be a little more prepared!!
yyrz: What do you have to say about all the teens roaming free here?
Hashem is Reading – if you really want to do that, imho, the best way to do so is by getting rid of the internet before you get married.
lilmod: did you look at my profile?? i dont have a smartphone, nor open access to Internet at home.
and that is for the sole purpose of it being a zchus for my husband and children IM YERTZEH HASHEM! and BEEZRAS HASHEM!
She’s from Lakewood, don’t you know? Where they have internetless Coffee Room consoles. Connected to the outside world via a series of gears and cables, strings and pullies…
lol little froggie- nice try but nope not from lakewood
Why did I think Hashemisreading was a man all of this time?
Maybe just like how people thought LU was a man too?
So weird.
lightbrite: lol I also though LU was a guy. I think because of her screenname.
Get rid of your internet.
Hashem is reading – did you just realize now that I’m a girl??
btw, I’ve been trying to figure out for a while if you’re a girl or a guy, but I didn’t want to ask.
I original was leaning towards “guy”, but when you wrote the post on the thread about the intellectual girl on a date, I figured you were probably a girl.
When you first bumped it, I wasn’t sure – I actually thought that you were probably a guy. But based on the post you wrote about why you bumped it, I figured you were probably a girl, but I stilll wasn’t sure until now.
Hashem is reading – I’m really sorry if it sounded like I was criticizing you. I didn’t mean it that way at all.
When I said that you should get rid of internet before you get married, I didn’t mean now necessarily. I meant “before” literally. Like right before you get married, so you won’t have it in your “bayis neeman b’Yisrael”.
Also, I didn’t mean it as a criticism – I had no idea if you had internet or not, and I wasn’t trying to imply that I think you do or that it’s bad that you do. I was just answering the question about how to protect your kids from internet. Since I think that is the best way to protect one’s kids from the internet.
But in case I owe you a bracha (and even if I don’t): I give you a bracha that Hashem should have you meet and recognize your zivug hagun soon and you should be zoche to build an internet-free, Torah-true Bayis neeman b’Yisrael soon!
Amen! thank you Lu! I am a female. you can probably tell form my writing style. But I know not all of my earlier posts were consistent with that. and nope I figured out shortly after you came here that your a girl. your age bracket though, is a big enigma to me.
and reb shidduch I know I should really get rid of the internet. you have any ideas for me??
I thought you just said you don’t have internet? Or do you mean, “ideas for not using internet”?
i did mean that, but still have access to Internet even though i dont have a Smartphone or Internet at home.
hence my rather sporatic appearances here.
Advice from the experienced: Don’t get rid of the internet completely cuz you don’t want your kids to feel deprived. Do what my parents did which is have a whitelist with a few approved sites (which happens to include YWN) and now i could go on a few sites and not feel deprived and have my parents happy at the same time!
Trust me i know what it’s like to be addicted to the internet! I’m gonna share something personal now: i once found a way to get around my parents filter and at first i used to just look at regular things and then i got really into it and i started doing things that i’m not even going to mention here cuz the mod’s are gonna kick me out! Then my parents found out and i’ll never forget that day! wow it was really bad! it was horrible cuz i was so addicted that i didn’t even realize and then when i didn’t have it i was so miserable and felt so empty inside! i don’t wish it on anyone! But i do have to say that i definitely miss having open internet at my disposal and i always wish i could have it back but i know it’s not happening so i try to make the best of my limited access! So for all the people out there reading this, please protect your children! i’m totally messed up because of it!
“Trust me i know what it’s like to be addicted to the internet! I’m gonna share something personal now: i once found a way to get around my parents filter and at first i used to just look at regular things and then i got really into it and i started doing things that i’m not even going to mention here cuz the mod’s are gonna kick me out!”
That’s exactly why one should try to avoid have internet at all even with the best filter!
Also, one of the reasons why I don’t agree with those posters who try to discourage you from coming to the Coffee Room. I realized that if you weren’t in the Coffee Room, there’s a good chance you would be elsewhere on the internet.
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