- This topic has 64 replies, 27 voices, and was last updated 11 years, 4 months ago by .
-
Posts
-
Not sure if you saw this on the YWN home page
But a Psak was issued that one must halachically vote for a certain candidate.
Is it an averiah to vote for another candidate?
Does one need to do Tshuva if one misses the vote or votes for somoene else.
where are you going to post to ask if you must follow the psak given you here?
will it be an averiah to ignore the ruling givin here of the question you posted here?
will you need to do tshuva if you have failed to obey the rulings of the posters here?
Could a Gadol dictate what kind of shoes to wear on specific days?
it depends on your emunas chachomim, i guess. i doubt you have to do teshuvah for missing an election, but unless you have a valid reason for voting for someone else, why not vote and get a mitzvah at the same time?
I know one signatory well enough to know that he wouldn’t put his signature on the third paragraph. Untill I get his response, I’m treating this as a forgery.
last week, (right after laining pashas re’eh,
someone I work with became curious and asked me questions as which animals are kosher.
I find interesting that this thread appears right after parshas shoftim
In matters of Halacha, I defer to my rov and/or Gedolei Hador. In matters of politics, I think for myself. Chances are that if a Gadol has very strong feelings about a given politician, I most likely already share those same feelings, but that is not Torah m’Sinai.
Even a rov can have a personal bias that might influence his decision to prefer one candidate over another, and that bias might not always necessarily be for the general long term good. I would want to know WHY the Gadol chose that specific candidate for endorsement, if I did not care for the same person, and perhaps my opinion would change, if there were a compelling reason.
I don’t know. But I do know that one needs to do teshuva for this thread.
What is the purpose of this thread besides to make fun of the fact that gedolim advise people on voting and that people care about gedolim’s opinion on that?
U need to listen to Hashem! U need to listen to Gedolim. Now if there is machlokes u need to use your brain to judge what is the right thing to do.
In this case: Sechel and the Gedolim say NO to Quinn and Toeva.
Many things are many things.
Who should i vote for in the NJ senate primary tomorrow?
Goq, I thought you live in Queens.
Goq- democrat or republican?
I am a conservative but will probably vote in the democratic primary tomorrow
You must follow what the gedolim say even if they tell you right is left and left is right. I think the question here is, is this letter a forgery or not. Call your rav and ask him if you have to do it.
Suppose one gadol said vote for candidate A and another said vote for candidate B.
Daas Torah, meet critical thinking. Why bother thinking at all if there’s someone who can do it for you? Hey, lets just toss bechira chofshis out the window. That is, if it is permissible to open the window.
There is a difference between guidance and direction. Everyone who has a question or a doubt should seek guidance from their Rov or the leader they look up to. I am not of the opinion that everyone should abdicate their responsibility to use their own wits -and the Torah education their parents and earlier generations of gedolim struggled to give them- to let someone else think for them.
I’ve got no skin in this particular political game, I don’t even live in the same country, but it seems to me that there are always going to be things done, endorsed, or allowed by governments and candidates that violate a halachic world view. Some ( not me, BTW) might consider killing people in Iraq or Afghanistan as cold blooded murder done on your cheshbon as a citizen. Others may look at Obamacare as gezeilah. Others will look at child protection services as gneivas nefoshos. Still more may look at the fact that Wiccans or Mormons are allowed to practice their religion freely as enabling avodoh zoroh. Havent seen any letters about those issues. Wondering why.
But if one can get their head around governments or candidates enabling or endorsing murder, kidnapping, theft, and idol worship without issuing letters of halachic direction, I suppose they should be able to get their heads around toeivah too.
At least, that’s what critical thinking tells a logical person. If one is going to abdicate their thought and choice to someone else, the least they can expect is consistency.
Oomis, knowing if you must follow their decision is also an Halachic Shayla that you ask your Rav. Chances are, a Gadol will tell you iit is your choice but he thinks one way is wiser. However, if he tells you that you must, then he Paskened that you have to follow.
I see that my reference to the Mishna in Shabbos (Sandel Hamesumar) fell under the radar.
Haleivi- you obviously haven’t read the letter; it says that that its a psak.
oomis and yichusdik: I am with you on this matter. The mention of “lo sossur” that anonymous1000 alluded to is erroneous. There ,we are talking about halachic matters, not “milei d’alma”, matters of general interest. There is no obligation to follow any Rov in matters that are not halachic. As yichusdik said, why leave our brains at the door?
The mention of “lo sossur” that anonymous1000 alluded to is erroneous. There ,we are talking about halachic matters, not “milei d’alma”, matters of general interest. There is no obligation to follow any Rov in matters that are not halachic.
Just for the record, in case anyone is confused by Rabbi of Berlin’s statements, he has previously gone on record that shemita is not considered halacha for this purpose since it is not in the shulchan aruch http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/about-the-rca-i-do-shudder/page/3
care to respond to the actual substance of his post, PBA?
popa: I find most of your comments obnoxious, arrogant and often irrelevant. Your opinion is your opinion but there is a halocho of “motzi shem ra” and what you said about me falls under that title. Furthermore, it is a stupid comment as these are mitzvos d’oraisa.
ROB, so you obviously don’t wash Mayim Acharonim, and never would have, until you personally agreed with the decision of Chazal.
This is ridiculous. A Rabbi can’t tell you who to vote for and he can’t call it a mitzva, which it is not. However a Rabbi can encourage you to vote for a certain candidate. You don’t have to listen to the Rabbi in this matter.
I do not know if the letter is real or fake, but if it is real I cannot see how the wording is not a Torah violation of Lo Sosifu. If the letter is indeed real, I would be very tempted to go up to every single signatory and ask how such a letter is Muttar.
Haleivi: You confuse me. What does mayim acharonim have to do with our subject? It is a gemoro and mentioned in shulchan aruch.
“mah inyan shemita eitzel har sinai?”
rabbiofberlin for the sake of this discussion I will assume you are right. However I would add that doing what a rav says doesn’t have to mean leaving your brain at the door. For example someone could have an opinion on a matter but do what a rav does because he trusts his opinion more than his own. Other examples, if I think I should do one thing about my health but the worlds top doctor(s) believe I should do something else it would be best for me to follow their advice.
Could a rabbi tell you to make peace with the Romans? Do you have to listen?
Sam, I don’t think it is this letter that is on the table right now. We all know that these types of letters are not authored by the Rabbonim themselves. It is written by whoever, and is not meant to be studied. It is put in front of Rabbonim to sign and they sign when they agree with the point of it. Yes, it is a problem and I wish this system would be uprooted.
Personally, I don’t care about this letter. None of these Rabbonim are my Morei Derech so it does not pertain to me. If they were, I’d try to find out what exactly they hold. However, the discussion here is about the Chiyuv to follow Rabbonim. Your own, the big ones, whatever.
We see in the Gemara many examples of Takanos and Gezeiros that come from reasons of Sakana. They are Halacha, no different from the Shvusim of Shabbos.
Besides, every Halachic decision essentially comes down to judging a situation. Is it Boneh or is it not. We wouldn’t disregard Reb Shlomo Zalman Aurbach’s decisions of Hilchos Shabbos, which are his way of sizing up objects and their functions, so how can we disregard decisions of Shmad, Limud Hatorah, Chilul Hashem, Avoda Zara, Bizui Hatorah, and other Halachos?
It is a gemoro and mentioned in shulchan aruch.
Right. And how did it get there?
ROB, Oomis and others, sometimes voting for a certain candidate is a Halochik matter. ROB, please, stop dreing the kup with your “mili de’alma” ta’anah.
anomymous1000: That is exactly what I said. It is not an obligation to listen to a Rav’s opinion but,of course, you can ask for an opinion and follow it if you want to.I do the same but I would never dream of labeling it “halacha” and make it an obligation.
This name is already taken,
The letter that you quote sounds to me like: ‘We urge everyone in the strongest terms to please come out and vote for Eric.’ Knowing the language that gets thrown around that’s how it translates. As I said, I’m not happy that letters get to be put out like this.
HaLeivi: You always talk in riddles. I am not smart enough to understand what you are alluding to. To beat a dead horse,aloow me to repeat what I said: if it is in the Poskim like the Rambam, (for items that are not covered by the Bais Yossef) or if it is in the “arba chelkei shulchan aruch”,we have to follow the Piskei halocho. For other matters that qualify as “milei d’alma” ,we do not have to follow the opinions.
mdd: instead of just dismissing idly what I said, please justify your positions.
I vote for Booker.
I think it’s like sheidim. If you believe that you have to listen to them, then you have to listen to them.
Veltz
I’m not sure you were sober when you wrote your last comment.
Ah, what a beautiful example of a straw man. The title of this thread is “How far must one listen to Gedolim”, while I’ve never even heard of most of the Rabbonim on that letter.
So
1. ZD seems to think that every Rabbi is a Gadol. Pretty fanatical viewpoint.
2. Being that being a Rabbi in no way means that the Rabbi is a Gadol, the whole question is irrelevant. No one ever said you have to do everything said by any Rabbi.
Sober as a judge bro. Lotsa people can’t handle my mad logicizing doe, so don’t feel bad.
MDD, respectfully, I feel fairly certain that if most poskim agreed that a certain candidate was a better choice, that most of us would probably arrive at that same conclusion on our own. I don’t need to be given a p’sak for my voting choices.
“I do not know if the letter is real or fake,”
“Read the list the R’Y of BMG is on it, If you dont consider him a gadol , I cant help you “
So was a Rosh Yeshiva of REITS.
Absolute undeniable proof that the letter is a forgery.
ZD: My line, not the Mod’s.
Thanks.
I am not sure if we have to listen to the gedolim who signed the letter a few days ago for everyone to vote for Eric Salgado because I don’t think the person who went around collecting signatures from the Gedolim told them that if we vote for Salgado we may give Christine Quinn who is what we would call a man a Mishkav Zachor a better chance of winning. I think if they would have told the Gedolim who signed this takkana that information I would think they would agree with me & say look @ the polls on election & see who has the best chance of defeating her & that who we should vote for. Yes the other candidates support toeiva but that are not Toeiva themselves. However if your Rav happens to be on the list you must approach him & ask the Rav if he realized that by voting for Salgado might improve Christine Quinns chances of winning when he signed the takkanah. As you R Yisroel Belsky & R Dovid Feinstein names are not on the list. I will ask R. Dovid Feinstein before the election if I have to vote for Eric Salgado or not.
Eli51: But if the rabbanim are only relying on the guy getting signatures for their information before signing a letter that will influence the way people vote….
….that’s scary.
Sometimes, it’s nice to live in Monsey where the elections are fixed before you ever hit the polls.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.