How did Rabbi Akiva die?

which is totally not the same thing as saying that it was good for people that they died in the holocaust. All it means is that given the choice, spritual death is worse than physical death. But the best is not to be given a choice and not to have any kind of death.

Vindication is sweet, isn’t it.

I dont have that source available
If in fact it says whay is claimed. then Joseph you are vindicated
(though I still disagree, Ill grant That youd take R’ Shlomo Wolbe’s opinion over mine. And certainly R’ Yonasson Eibeshitz Though again I havent seen it inside)

Ubiquitin, first of all, shkoyach on being able to admit you may be wrong. (although I personally am still not convinced you are as per my last post, but since you don’t think the way I do about paradoxes, according to your way of thinking, you would have to say you are wrong if the source is correct).

Second of all, you now have to concede that you were wrong about the more important point here. That is the fact that you misjudged Joseph and assumed that he didn’t really mean what he said.

LU
“Ubiquitin, first of all, shkoyach on being able to admit you may be wrong. ”

Not my first time.

“That is the fact that you misjudged Joseph and assumed that he didn’t really mean what he said.”

Lol. no of course Joeph doesn’t mean it. cmon I get that you are naive, but you think Joseph is on the level of Rabbi Akiva? you cant possibly be THAT naive.
and please please please spare me that hair splitting that is sure to come that he believes it bit doesnt really believe it. yes yes I know.
Stick around longer keep an open mind you will get more of a feel for how people work.
Also if you are bored read through old “Joseph” threads he has appeared under many names with his shtick (when I first met him he was Lior i think there are several threads of lists of his aliases) Admittedly he may raise good points like this interesting discussion. That doesn’t mean he believes them.

and is that really the more important point?

“meno: For EVERY jew that was not religious and wouldn’t have become (which was a lot) it was the BEST thing that could have ever happened to them!”

What? I would never differentiate between religious and non-religious Jews in a matter like this. For one thing, we don’t know who really is religious and who is not. There are many Mitzvos in the Torah and everyone has a different bechira level and we have no idea who is on a higher level than who. There can be people who are considered “non-religious” who are actually on a much higher level than some who are called “religious”.

We do believe that Hashem controls everything in the world and that Hashem loves all us, religious or not, and therefore whatever He does to us is in our best interest. This applies to both religious and non-religious Jews.
However, as I pointed out, I would be careful about the context in which I apply this concept. Of course, technically, it applies everywhere. But when you are talking about something like the holocaust, it is a concept that can’t be explained in one sentence, and therefore it is better not to say such things in a forum in which it would be impossible to explain what it means. Since it can easily lead to misconceptions.

“Although I think that desiring to die al kiddush Hashem is not necessarily the same as davening to die al kiddush Hashem.”
I hear your interesting chiluk, but we must realize that this was not just an abstract thought thrown out to us. The Ya’aros Devash goes through each berachah in Shemoneh Esrei and tell us what to be mechaven when we recite them.
If he wrote this as one of the kavanos of Retzeh, and Rav Wolbe cited it in his section on Biurei Tefillah, then it certainly would seem that he is telling us to daven for it not just to desire it.
Don’t you agree?

Oh no! I forgot to place the link the new way.
Maybe like this it will only block my post.
Im sorry all

Wow, PAA, long time no see!

That’s not a different account of how Rabi Akiva died; it’s additional information surrounding his death.