How about you support your own blazed rebbeim

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  • #609097
    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    This is based on a rant I heard over shabbos.

    When I am rich and famous and am a baal habos in a school, we are going to give very generous scholarships for children who are needy, including the children of fathers learning in large “non-community” kollels.

    But, we are not going to give even one cent of scholarship to any rebbeim from other schools in the community or people who learn in community kollels in the community. Not one cent.

    See, here is how this is:

    Suppose you decide that your community needs another school. So you get supporters, and donors, and parents, and kids, and you see if it is feasible and desirable to make another school. (Suppose we are not competing even–you are making a high school and I have a day school).

    And you budget how much money you will need to run the school, so you budge that you will underpay the rebbeim because that is the going rate for rebbeim–to be underpaid. But, you know you will be able to attract them to the city to your school, because they will still be able to survive, and will still be able to send their kids to day school. How? Because I will give them a scholarship.

    Well, that is ridiculous. Your rebbeim’s tuition should be coming from your school’s budget–not from my school’s budget! Your school’s parents should pay that. Your school’s supporters should raise that money. Why do I have to raise the money to pay the needs of your school’s rebbeim? If you can’t afford to pay them, then you can’t afford to start your school. Why do you get to pass that cost on to my school?

    #947288
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    1) It’s usually reciprocal.

    2) I don’t get the part about the community vs. non-community kollelim.

    #947289
    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    1) It’s usually reciprocal.

    A. That doesn’t work. It would make more sense to simply pay each other and if it is reciprocal it will balance out and if not then it won’t and the money will be allocated appropriately.

    B. That doesn’t help for kollelim.

    2) I don’t get the part about the community vs. non-community kollelim.

    Non-community kollelim don’t have a constituency who brought them to the city and should be paying for them.

    #947290

    There must be some underlying assumptions that are allowed within the community. Why would you stop at school openings? Perhaps people should consult with the community before having children, if they suspect that the children might need a scholarship. Or perhaps you should discuss your 401(k) with the community because if you would trade that for a marginally higher salary, you’d be able to pay marginally more tuition.

    Or maybe the school should consult with the parents when they get the principal a fancy swivel chair.

    #947291
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    1) It’s cheaper this way because the extra “salary” is only paid to blazed rebbeim with kids. Your way, it’s higher salaries across the board.

    2) Mah nafshach, if you value kollel, you’re happy that the adkanim opened a kollel and will help. If you don’t value kollel (ch’v), you won’t subsidize any kollel learners.

    #947292
    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    1) It’s cheaper this way because the extra “salary” is only paid to blazed rebbeim with kids. Your way, it’s higher salaries across the board.

    Actually, you can just include a tuition payment in your salary package. In fact, if you do that, the tuition payment part will be pre-tax.

    2) Mah nafshach, if you value kollel, you’re happy that the adkanim opened a kollel and will help. If you don’t value kollel (ch’v), you won’t subsidize any kollel learners.

    This isn’t about valuing. It’s about that there is somebody else who actually has a responsibility for it, but is shirking that.

    VM: That’s a fair point, and I wanted to think about it. I think the difference to me is that I don’t think people should be considering money as a factor in having kids (as I have argued on this board before http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/having-children-without-money).

    But, it does make sense to me that a community should be considering whether it can afford to make a new school when it makes a new school. However, the community is not fully considering that because it is externalizing some of the cost of the new school to “the other school”–when in fact, all that cost must be collectively borne by the community.

    #947293
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    You are making the assumption that the rebbeim and yungerleit’s kids are going to cost you money. That depends on many factors, though. Often, the additional tuition (if you would give a partial scholarship) covers whatever costs are incurred above your school’s fixed expenses.

    Also, the types of kids who often come from klei kodesh families are valued for non-financial reasons (I know of situations where there were more than one yeshivah in town, and newly arrived families were offered free tuition).

    #947294
    Torah613Torah
    Participant

    I don’t know anything about these issues, but it seems like both sides are right. The fact is, many kids do better in a school near their home, and that alone is a reason to start a school. If we rely on money min hashamayim for children in our families, why can’t we do the same as a community? OTOH, is it responsible to send children to a school which is in constant danger of closing, understaffed, lacking supplies and unstable?

    #947295
    Brony
    Participant

    lol im willing to support any rabbi who gets blazed. also, no one forces schools to give anyone scholarships, its done entirely voluntarily. i see you’re still in randroid mode doe – turn off the switch homie.

    #947296
    interjection
    Participant

    Brony, and I say this with love, you really need to get your head out of the gutter.

    #947297
    Brony
    Participant

    it was like he was throwing it up for the alley oop doe…

    #947298
    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    yah, I suppose this does look a bit randian of me, although I wasn’t really thinking of it that way.

    I was more thinking in terms of tortfeasors internalizing the cost of their torts which is completely contra to rand. In that sort of world, there would be no environmental regulation but the govt would charge every factory money commensurate with how much it bothered people that they were polluting, so that the exact right amount of pollution that people are willing to put up with would be done.

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