Home-baked Cookies in MM

Most of the home made and much of the store bought MM that we receive go to my wife’s workplace open kitchen. Left out = hefker. Let them enjoy it.

In E”Y there are many different hashgachos, and different people often eat different ones. It may have nothing to do with trusting the other’s kashrus or not. I have seen people attach a note to homemade items indicating what hechsherim the ingredients had. Many people make sure to use only eida chareidis ingredients when cooking/baking for others- whether it is for MM, a party in gan or siyum in cheder, or a neighbor’s kiddush, since most people hold by Eida.

Oh.

Oh, so it wasn’t just me who got clipped. So I don’t have to take it so personally… good to know..

Meno,

Different chumros/kulos was built into my comment. I understand why somebody would refrain from eating other people’s meat dishes, because there is much more area for problems to arise and your standards may not be the next person’s standards.

But for cookies and cakes, there isn’t much area for my standards to be different than anybody else’s, besides for chodosh/yoshon, trumos and maaseros and cholov yisrael if they aren’t parve.

What are you worried about in the kitchen? If you have reason to suspect that the person brings non-kosher into their kitchen or doesn’t keep milk and meat separate then by all means, don’t trust them (I certainly wouldn’t!). But without reason to suspect anything, ?? ??? ???? ????????.

Regarding cholov yisrael and cholov stam: If you believe that cholov stam is actually ??? ?????, then you probably shouldn’t eat food that was made in pots that were used to cook with cholov stam. (I can think of reasons to be lenient even there like ?”? ?? ?”? and ???? ?? ????, but I’ll leave that aside) If you believe that cholov stam is ????? ???? ???, but you want to be like Rav Moshe’s ??? ??? ?????, then you should be okay eating from those pots.

To clarify what I mean when I say ?? ??? ???? ???????? – you can trust somebody that his food meets the standard that he purports to keep. For example, you can trust that the meat in my house is glatt kosher (unless you don’t trust me, which is fine being that I am anonymous), but don’t assume that my challah is yoshon unless I knew you were coming and checked to make sure the flour was yoshon before I served it.

meno,,,,,,,,,

Separate sinks, counters, dishwashers, ovens, refrigerators

This is one time segregation is according to law

There are people who keep Chalav Yisroel, but not for equipment. That being said, I doubt many of them would truly trust dairy food made in a non-chalav-Yisroel kitchen. The equipment wouldn’t be the only problem, but rather to kitchen owner’s knowledge of accommodating that need.

I think the original post is on target. I don’t like that the thread has been called disturbing. In a lot of communities, I think the range of Kashrus is wider than it should be (sometimes extending outside of the halachah). You don’t want to make someone feel like they’re in the halachic dilemma of choosing between eating something they don’t trust, embarrassing you, or even making you angry.

the thread isn’t disturbing, it was disturbing me. And you seem to have misunderstood the upset. There is nothing wrong with being careful, even vigilant in your kashrus and carefully guarding what you eat and where it comes from. But that has nothing to do with giving and receiving mishloach manos, only with eating it.

and thank you for your respectful tone.

Meno – That is true. I had seen the point as being about a way to go “lifnim meshuras hadin” and show extra consideration by not sending them something they can’t eat even though there is nothing wrong with doing so (as I pointed out previously).

Although, as you pointed out, perhaps making something home-baked could itself be seen as a way of going “lifnim meshuras hadin” by making something that is more yummy for those who do eat it.

Personally, for me the dilemma would be about whether or not to eat it. As I mentioned in another thread, my (practically) only taavos are for things that can be eaten or read 🙂

I imagine that would not be a dilemma for most other adults. What might be a dilemma for some is figuring out if they should let the kids have it.

shebbesonian – I think we’re talking about a case where you have reason to suspect that you can’t trust the person’s kashrus.

Or that you don’t have a reason to assume that you can.

Obviously you can’t apply ?? ??? ???? ???????? to being able to eat food from anyone’s home. The average Jew in America is not even Frum. So clearly there has to be a reason to believe that you can eat this person’s food before you can start applying that principle.

I would assume that the basis for assuming you can eat in a particular person’s home in the first place is that you know that this is a person who is very knowledgeable in the relevant halachos and has the same standards as you.

When people don’t eat in other’s homes, it ispresumably because they feel that this doesn’t apply for one of two reasons: 1. They know the person and know that the person doesn’t have the same standards as them.

or: 2: They feel that there are enough Orthodox people who don’t have these standards or are ignorant of them, that they can’t assume that any particular person is “b’chezkas kashrus” unless they know that they are.

I use it to feed the birds.

LB: I listened to Rabbi Tahan and his discussion was enlightening. However, I would not base any decision about this issue without discussing it with my personal LOR. Even Rabbi Tahan stated that it is only based on a statement by Rabbi Shlomo Kluger that one is not yotzai shalach manos. He did not mention if their are others who disagree.

I posted an hour ago a post that is still awaiting moderation. It was a story about someone asking a well-known Gadol what to do with chalav stam chocolates they were given. He said they could give it away. To be more precise, he said “give it to me.”

L’maaseh, if someone is in this situation, they should ask a sheilah before assuming that it is okay to throw it out. That was my point.

If someone considers something assur it should certainly be okay to throw it out. But I am not sure that one could consider chalav stam to be in that category as Rav Moshe Feinstein zatsal permitted it. But I don’t know, so someone in that situation should ask.

Some people are makpid on Chalav Yisrael themselves but don’t impose it on their children since they consider it a chumra and one is not supposed to be machmir on others.