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Shulchon Oruch 429:1 We learn Hilchos Pesach 30 days before the Yom Tov. (From Gemara Pesachim 6a)
Taz on 429:1: the Ran, (and Rashi) says on this that Moshe Rabbeinu corrected Bnei Yisroel on Hilchos Pesach Sheini on Pesach Rishon*, which is 30
days before, 14th of Nisan to 14th of Iyar. Thus we learn out that we learn Hilchos Pesach 30 days beforehand.
*This information is based on the Gemara in Pesachim 6a, as the Be’er HaGolah says, and a piece of halacha to any Rov on this forum is
that shailos about Hilchos Pesach take precedence over shailos about daily matters at this time,as it says in that Gemara.
The Magen Avrohom says on the relevant sif, quoting the Bach: When saying 30 days, the Shulchon Oruch also means Yom Tov, so it is
not Erev Yom Tov minus 30 days that the chiyuv to learn Hilchos Pesach starts, it is Yom Tov minus 30 days when it starts.
The Be’er Heitev says that it is for the rest of the Yamim Tovim, which is plural, possibly implying that it is the last Yom Tov, not only
the first, contradicting the Magen Avrohom, but that is disproven since the Be’er Heitev quotes the same Bach as the Magen Avrohom.
The Rashba also says on the Gemara in Pesachim 6a, that we learn Hilchos Pesach 30 days before until Pesach, we also review them during Pesach.
The Rashba says on the same daf, in which the Rashba says: ‘I have heard that it is 30 days before Pesach that it is said in the Gemara to ask shailos
about Hilchos Pesach, but it is not said to answer, and I learn from this that it is as it says in Pirkei Avos 5:46 , that says: A Talmid Chacham asks like
the topic and answers like halacha.’**
* The Be’er Moshe says on this that this is learned from the fact that the Gemara dosen’t explain dorshin, only explaining shoalin, (thus saying that
it is not a chiyuv, since it isn’t even explained fully in the Gemara! Rather a reasonable thing to say is it is merely to be on topic, that 30 days before is
long enough to be considered like it is the daily topic, that Pesach is close.
*Thus the Rashba holds it is not a chiyuv, rather it is just practical advice, like the Taz says (see below)
The Taz, however, contradicts the Magen Avrohom and the Be’er Heitev according to my interpretations of their words, who say that there is a chiyuv
to learn Hilchos Pesach, meanwhile agreeing with the Rashba . The Taz says that the Shulchan Oruch said that you should learn Hilchos Pesach 30 days
before to stay on topic.
Rashi on Succah 9a says that ‘it is part of the Halachos of the holiday that anything having to do with it should be started 30 days previously.’ This
connotates by Rashi’s use of the word Halachos and by the Mishna it pertains to, which is not talking about anything optional to do before Succos,
rather pertaining to if a succah is posul or not, which is halacha, that Rashi is of the opinion that preparation for a holiday is 30 days before, and so he
says it is halacha.
The Biur HaGra on the Shulchan Oruch 429:1 brings in the proof of Rashi, not the Rashba on this matter, thus implying that the Gra says it is a chiyuv,
like Rashi does.
The Birkei Yosef quotes the Gemara in Megila 4a, in which R’ Yehoshua ben Levi says that shailos about Purim take strict precedence when being
darshened, just like Moshe Rabbeinu did before Pesach Sheni during Pesach. He does not bring anything else on this, implying that there is a
connection between the Gemara in Megila and the Gemara in Pesachim, that connection is that you must darshen shailos about Hilchos Pesach before
regular shailos, and so the Birkei Yosef is contradicting the Rashba’s view that there is no explaining of ‘dorshin’ in the Gemara in Pesachim 6a, so
agreeing with the Shulchan Oruch, aka the Beis Yosef.
The Beis Yosef on the Tur quotes the same Gemara in Megila as the Birkei Yosef, also quoting the Gemara in Pesachim, saying that ‘We are OBLIGATED
to ask and to darshen about Hilchos Pesach 30 days before.’ The Beis Yosef later continues: ‘If there are two students, one asks like the topic, and
another not like the topic, you must answer the one who asked like the topic first. And so it is with Hilchos Pesach, that if you learn them 30 days before
Pesach, you are asking like the matter (and so your shaila should be darshened before off-topic shailos), and so is the explanation of the Ran**.
*The Taz also quotes the Ran (see above), and he holds differently than the Beis Yosef. It must be a different explanation of the Ran’s words. I am
ordering a Kovetz Meforshim Pesachim, and so will be able to look into the matter.
*This is a very interesting approach that the Beis Yosef takes, quoting the Mishna in Pirkei Avos: ‘A Talmid Chacham asks like the matter etc.’, but
meanwhile he holds it is based on that Mishna but is still an obligation, not practical advice like the Taz and the Rashba said.
The Bach meanwhile holds an interesting position, saying that you are not obligated to answer the shailos, but you are obligated to ak shailos about
Hilchos Pesach, and during Pesach you are obligated to darshen them. The Magen Avrohom and Be’er Heitev were quoting the Bach’s opinion that you
are obligated to ask shailos, but from what time do you ask, but the Bach says that you are not obligated to darshen until the actual Yom Tov of Pesach.
The Shulchan Oruch was written by the Beis Yosef, let’s not forget, and the Rema makes no contradiction of the Beis Yosef on the Tur in this sif, and
this sif based is on the opinion R’ Yosef Karo holds from the Beis Yosef, and the Rema meanwhile introduces a minhag to buy wheat for the poor, saying:
And it is customary to buy wheat for distribution to the poor for their passover needs, and anyone who is a resident of the city for at least 12 months
must donate to this cause.
The Rosh Yosef says on Pesachim 6a that Shoalin means what is needed later, and dorshin means what is needed now, thus supporting the Bach’s
opinion that you must ask shailos about Hilchos Pesach, that are for later, aka during Pesach, and you are obligated to darshen them DURING
Pesach, aka now, because the shailos are going to be put into action now, during Pesach.
The Kaf HaChayim says nothing on this, quoting the Beis Yosef on a different reason for the thirty days, so not contradicting the Shulchan Oruch or
Beis Yosef.
SUMMARY: The Gra, Beis Yosef, Birkei Yosef, Rashi, Magen Avrohom, Be’er Heitev, Rema, and the Kaf HaChayim all say there is an obligation to learn
Hilchos Pesach 30 days before.
Meanwhile the Bach and Rosh Yosef both say that you are obligated to learn Hilchos Pesach and ask shailos on them within the 30 day period, but you
are not obligated to darshen them until it is actually Pesach.
Also The Taz and the Rashba both say it is merely practical advice, based on what it says in Pirkei Avos 5:46, ‘A Talmid Chacham asks like the matter
and answers like halacha.’
This is all based on my interpretation of these poskim’s words. If you disagree with me on any point of this essay please post it here and let’s discuss it
David S.-
Whether or not people comment on it, this post clearly had lots of thought put into it and quite a bit of research done with the many different meforshim and marei mekomos that you list and discuss.
Don’t get discouraged, I’m sure many people have read it.
Thanks for the post. I am not knowledgeable enough to discuss it, but I did read & appreciate it.
of course i read it. i read everything 😉
but to quote anon, unfortunately i’m not knowledgeable enough to discuss it…
yeah, I tried to read it, but to misquote anon, unfortunately, I’m not knowledgeable enough to even follow such a long, convoluted discourse.
~a~
David, I read it, not quite sure what you want to discuss… I do second ICOT’s post that people have read it, and work went into it (I’m just thinking of the typing part and I’m getting tired, let alone actually learning it and translating etc) 🙂
David S.: wow what an amazing thread you started. your post i did read it is very well thought out.
David, I read it, confess to not knowing exactly what you wanted to discuss about it, and if you will just write in a sentence or two what type of discussion you hope to generate, I will gladly take part. There is nothing controversial or arguable in your well-written post. Clearly, it is incumbent on all of us to start talking about hilchos Pesach now, and most of the women in the CR have no doubt begun planning for Pesach immediately post-Purim. I will presume that includes discussion with one’s LOR about pertinent halachos.
I think, practically speaking, there are so many halachos to learn l’inyan Pesach and you want to continue your regular learning so unless you’re a Rav or in Yeshiva; WHO has the time to also darshan halachos of pesach, especially before Pesach? Asking l’maise shailos, of course, is part of learning hilchos Pesach.
Your lomdeshe piece, however, would make for a great Shabbos Hagadol drasha.
David, What is your reason for not making a bracha on the charoses?
David S.
I once gave a shiur on it Shabbos HaGadol after Kabbolas Shabbos before Barchu. I was wondering if my results were inline with yours.
If I get a chance, iy”h I’ll post it either in this forum, or in the Dvar Torah thread. I hope to see you there.
-Wink, Wink
I am asking my Rov anyway, as he is the final authority for my shailos, but I am curious as to what you will find, David. What is the position regarding the use of an electric urn over yom tov, that is used all year round? If it is stainless steel must it be kashered for Pesach, being that all that it is used for is to boil water, and CAN it even be kashered for Pesach, or do we need a separate one?
side question which just popped into my brain after reading your previous piece (wonderfully written by the way)
Why no tachanun on bet sivan?
David, What is your reason for not making a bracha on the charoses?
Would that be because the charoses is part of the koreich and we already are making a bracha on the maror, for which there is a mitzvah, unlike the charoses alone which is simnply a zeicher?
Yasher Koach! I almost forgot!
Thanks, once in a while I think logically 😉
oomis, you stumped me so far, give me another week or so please 🙂
Whoops! Did I do THAT????????? Here’s another one – How does one kasher the grates in a self-cleaning oven if they must be removed prior to using the self-clean cycle?
Obviously it would be ideal to keep them in for the cleaning process. Otherwise, I believe libun (kashering via heat from a blowtorch) would be the proper method.
David S. am I correct?
Yeah, leave them in the oven during the self clean. I even put the range pieces in for the cycle, though I know you’re not supposed to. You can’t follow all the instructions in the manual – live on the wild side!
David, since you check this thread, please look at the middah thread thanx 🙂
The oven racks and stove grates may be kashered inside the oven during the self-clean cycle, Guidelines p33.
I don’t have a self-clean oven, this was a shailah that someone asked of me, and of course I referred her to her LOR, but she told me the grates are not supposed to be in the oven for the self-clean (maybe it hurts the finish on the grates????), so if that is true, I would imagine blow torches would be even more problematic. Oh well. Thanks for all the responses.
If one has Shmura Machine Matzahs in a sealed unopened box from last year or from previous years, can he or she use them for the entire chag this Pesaach? If not what is the source for not being able to use them? Are there different Minhagim for Ashkenaz and Sefardim regarding using Matzahs not baked this year?
There is no problem in Halacha using matza from last year, provided it was stored properly.
David, Why do you steadfastly refuse to post in the dvar torah thread?
JayMatt: you red my mind!
Who did he red your mind to?
mod42: ha sweet! i really need spelling lessons!
42, LOL! he, must be the CEO of crayola
So question about the hot water urn – if u could use from all year round – sorry if u answered already i didn’t notice it – (i think it must be a problem in my house – as who is careful about the cake they are eating crumbling near it, maybe in the cup that you take the water with, or spill and goes under it?)
Also all year round meat slicer that is used exclusively and carefully for only meat? can you use to slice meat for pesach?
I wouldn’t use the meat slicer, you never know what type of meat was cut. Can you be certain that you never cut pastrami or other cured meats?
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