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Personally I think this thread has been much more respectful sans אותו האיש 🤫)
איך הער
I honestly agree with DaMoshe here, just in the reverse 🙂
@DaMoshe
We did not start this argument .
It was CS who tried portray modern habad as the main continuation of yahadut nowadays , and ran away when the questions became too hard to handle with honesty.Btw.
I do not think that they are apikorsim.
I just point out that they deviate from the truth and yahadut.
And CS and friends are trying to pull the wool over unsuspecting people’s eyes.
Habad are masterful at PR . If you do not ask them the questions , they will succeed to influence the average persons thinking.It was CS who tried portray modern habad as the main continuation of yahadut nowadays , and ran away when the questions became too hard to handle with honesty.
Btw.
I do not think that they are apikorsim.
I just point out that they deviate from the truth and yahadut.
And CS and friends are trying to pull the wool over unsuspecting people’s eyes.
Habad are masterful at PR . If you do not ask them the questions , they will succeed to influence the average persons thinking.Menachem wants us to believe that CS and company’s collective silence when the questions and simple logic are too much to bear , is only because
they either are …‘ not in the mood’
or ‘too busy’
or ‘happen personally not to know’ the answer
or ….. fill in the blanks.but for sure not because of an objective lack of logical answers
So therefore – this sudden collective silence of CS and company is no indication whatsoever that habad does not have answers.
They have them . Hidden in some secret vault ….Come on.
@CS
@Menachem
and all other habad peopleI reread menachems posts and I see that he and other habad people perceive my posts as ‘raving attacks’ on habad.
It seems that they perceive those posts as offending.
They for sure were not written with the intent to offend , that much I can assure you of .
Therefore I would like ask for mehila from those who did feel offended.
Please accept my apologies .But on the other hand …. let us find the balance where healthy and fact based debate will not be artificially stifled by misplaced claims of victimhood.
.Hi so glad to be back. Gotta be completely honest. I was apprehensive when I saw Donald Trump being treated like moshiach again(!) and then even more upset the week before he took office when he went hard on Israel. I told Hashem that is quite enough and I will gladly take upon myself anything to save us from further collective suffering. I also was working on a quick plan to bring moshiach as you know. Well things took an interesting turn BH BH. From the eve of Jan 20, I’ve been incarcerated due to bizarre HP, and subjected to such abuse and suffering I would have never thought imaginable in a first world country. This includes severe physical abuse to the brink of death, regular starvation and missed meals, shivering from cold, and high emotional and psychological torture. I have no money and also no regular access to a smartphone. So I appoint menachem shmei to take my place answering questions. Please don’t be defensive or hateful, and show geon yaakov. Looking forward to corresponding more when I’m out.
However I’ve gained much spiritually and have followed the miraculous news and return of the hostages from the TV with much joy. I’d much rather be a hostage and they go free.
When I do go out I have assurances of a ticket to The Rebbe so that’s where I will fly first. If any of you would like to help out my new mission of locating and reuniting aseres hashvatim, please send money to Mendy Kotlarsky from merkos 302. I will prove my identity by signing in here. I will use the money for the plane tickets and trips, which will culminate in the most dangerous place of all. I have much proof for my words (classic non chabad sources)- also for the fact that we only have up to ten years left for yemos hamoshiach, before techias hameisim, but I choose not to back myself up at the moment to give the opportunity for the zechus of free choice
One thing though– I’ve been racking up countless lavin and mitzvos asei and middos hachassidus that have been violated by withholding moshiach from klal yisrael due to ridiculous politics (I did win first place in chidon internationally) and if I take certain members of lubavitch establishment for a show down din Torah- ywn will get exclusive live coverage if I can help it.
If lubavitch would like to avoid such a spectacle, they can a) expand 770 to match the BHMK beautifully and honorably with enough seating space to host moshiachs farbrengens to klal yisrael.
B) they need to build The Rebbe palace in kfar chabad
C) they need to paskin that The Rebbe is moshiach and he should be revealed immediately with proper halacha, or endorse another candidate.
October 7th was quite enough.
Good shabbos from a place of physical confinement and spiritual enlightenment.
Chabad Shlucha
🤯
i guess she got the wrong prescription
Chabad Shlucha: Who is this mysterious person who physically abused you to the brink of death? Was it some anti-feminist upset at your loud and proud public expressions of being a militant feminist?
Someone’s been reading Aleph Shin and got carried away
Is CS lucid ?
Is CS lucid ?
Definitely doesn’t seem that way to me from her recent posts. Or just really lame trolling? 🤷♂️
Yankel, this may be an opportunity for us to agree 😃
At what point did “CS” become “Chabad Shlucha” and is the same person behind both accounts?
Menachem Shmei, you’re not doing a very good job of representing Chabad Shlucha 🤣
Menachem Shmei, you’re not doing a very good job of representing Chabad Shlucha 🤣
Like any great lawyer, I plead insanity on behalf of my client.
“At what point did “CS” become “Chabad Shlucha” and is the same person behind both accounts?”
Cs used to be Chabad Shlucha and then she shortened it to cs and now she’s back to being Chabad Shelucha again
Cs used to be Chabad Shlucha and then she shortened it to cs and now she’s back to being Chabad Shelucha again
But these are different accounts
MS, is there any way you can check on her and see if she’s getting the help she needs?
MS, is there any way you can check on her and see if she’s getting the help she needs?
I wish I could help, but contrary to popular belief, Lubavitcher online posters do NOT sit together in an office under 770, receiving orders from mysterious employers on what to post. I have no idea who CS is.
I thought you could perhaps reach out to Mendy Kotlarsky…
Menachem was happy that that at least we have something we can agree on….
Menachem – got news for you.
We agree on 99% of the issues.
We agree that there is a bashefer. Torah misinai etc. etc. …. and the list can go on and on b’h.
No shortage there.Reminding ourselves from time to time of the things we do agree on , will help us to view our disagreements in their proper perspective.
And enable us to not blow them up [any bigger than their real size] in our own minds.
Which in turn will not cause us to view straightforward questions as ‘raving attacks’ .
.Well said Yankel.
“But these are different accounts“
It seems (to me) that cs forgot how to log into her account but cs’ last post was a month ago and Chabad shlucha started three weeks ago
Thanks menachem.
So – when are we back into the business of answering the unanswered questions ?Looking forward.
.Nu ?
Shtikah Ke ,,,,, ?
This isn’t בית דין
There used to be a whole army of habad apologists out there.
They all went on a joint vacation ?
Not even one habadi left ?Or is it a real and objective lack of answers ?
You cannot answer what you do not possess …….In other words shtika ke ….. ?
Yankel berel, enough said. You’ve made your point, loud and clear. It’s time to let it go. As they say in Yidddish, “Luz oif.”
Why is ‘enough said’ ?
This is a free world.
Habad is free to fill the world again and again with their baloney.No one says to them — ‘enough’ .
So Why are we not free to question again and again ?
For sure if they behave as if they got all the answers and we are just some stupids who are not getting it..
We asked them valid mature questions.They should man up and answer .
.yankel berel- go do something with your life
@ard
will take your well meant advice.Am still waiting for answers, though …..
.Seems that there are no answers in the near future. So lets summarize at least those questions which were left without answers.
Have one here.
Why did official habad change course- after decades of denying that they are secretly aiming to crown their rebbi as mashiach – why did they make a uturn and actually crowned him as mashiach ?
And why was there no explanation about their uturn ?yb- you’re not getting them cuz there arent any, move on with your life
Is a Tsadiq of Tanya INFALLIBLE ?
Infallible as in a human mistake- not an avera – a mistake ?
Is there any clear source for this ?Anyway , how do we define a tsadiq of tanya – as opposed to a beinoni of tanya , as both are totally clean of any averot – according to tanya ?
How can we know whether his yetser is dead [as a tsadiq] or his yetser is merely kept in check [as in beinoni] ?
Maybe this is impossible for us to know ?Is there any clear source for this either ?
.Is a Tsadiq of Tanya INFALLIBLE ?
Infallible as in a human mistake- not an avera – a mistake ?To the best of my knowledge, no. I haven’t seen that written anywhere.
how do we define a tsadiq of tanya – as opposed to a beinoni of tanya , as both are totally clean of any averot – according to tanya ?
Yankel, you know that you’re asking me to squeeze the first twelve prokim of Tanya into a CR post just to help you build your argument. But I’ll try.
A beinoni doesn’t feel a constant passionate love and connection to Hashem, so he isn’t naturally interested in doing mitzvos, so he has to force himself to do them (using the methods described in the later prokim in Tanya).
Since he doesn’t feel such a love for Hashem, he also isn’t so bothered by aveiros, and he must often struggle with self control to force himself not to sin (also with methods described later).
A tzaddik has a very high neshama (and also did immense avoda?) so he feels a natural love and connection to Hashem. Therefore, he is naturally inclined to cleave to Hashem through mitzvos, and similarly, he despises anything that is against Hashem, kelipos, so he has no urge to commit aveiros.
How can we know whether his yetser is dead [as a tsadiq] or his yetser is merely kept in check [as in beinoni] ?
Maybe this is impossible for us to know ?I doubt there is a way to see if someone is tempted to sin or not. But I think that it has been noticeable throughout the generations when unique people stood out as having a special connection and devotion to Hashem and a much higher neshama than the average Jew, even the average very frum Jew who isn’t seen sinning.
@menachem
Thanks for your answer.why is alter rebbe’s son – mittele rebbe – mittele? was the next one considered the last one at some moment?
Menachem agreed that there is no source that even a tsadiq of tanya is infallible. For sure a beinoni.
He also agreed that it is impossible to know for 100 % whether someone is a tsadiq or a beinoni. He could refrain from all averot and still be a beinoni.
Even if he feels his yetser only once in his lifetime, he would still not be a tsadiq.
—-
So the question is – do the habad hasidim consider their rebbi as INFALLIBLE ?If yes- what are they basing themselves on ?
.The idea of someone having a “higher neshama” naturally doesn’t make sense. Having something that comes naturally isn’t praiseworthy – what’s worthy of recognition is when someone works on themselves, and puts the effort into changing. If someone naturally doesn’t have a yetzer hara, and isn’t tempted to sin, then what’s so great about them?
why is alter rebbe’s son – mittele rebbe – mittele? was the next one considered the last one at some moment?
When the Tzemach Tzedek was rebbe, there was a first, middle, and current rebbe.
Menachem agreed that there is no source that even a tsadiq of tanya is infallible.
I said that I haven’t seen. I’m not sure that there’s no source. But it definitely doesn’t say it in Tanya to the best of my knowledge.
He also agreed that it is impossible to know for 100 % whether someone is a tsadiq or a beinoni.
I didn’t say this. I said I doubt it’s possible to know about someone’s temptations. But I think there are other ways to gauge if someone is a tzaddik.
So the question is – do the habad hasidim consider their rebbi as INFALLIBLE ?
I’m not sure what you mean by this. But what’s the nafka mina?
The idea of someone having a “higher neshama” naturally doesn’t make sense. Having something that comes naturally isn’t praiseworthy – what’s worthy of recognition is when someone works on themselves, and puts the effort into changing. If someone naturally doesn’t have a yetzer hara, and isn’t tempted to sin, then what’s so great about them?
Yidden are born with a higher neshama than goyim. Kohanim receive special honor because they were born with a special status. etc.
It’s nice questions that you have, and chassidus goes into them at length.
They base themselves on David hamelech who killed his yetser through fasts. So it is, in his case at least , due to his actions.
But the question remains – what does this have to do with INFALLIBILTY ?Note that Menachem agreed that there is no source for INFALLIBILITY .
And – if the navi [!] Shmuel could be mistaken about Yishay’s sons – ha’adam yir’eh le’einayim , then why can we not be mistaken about someone who lives with us ?
.Why did official habad change course- after decades of denying that they are secretly aiming to crown their rebbi as mashiach – why did they make a uturn and actually crowned him as mashiach ?
And why was there no explanation about their uturn ?Is there no explanation ? Or is there one , just that we are not meritorious enough to hear it ……
MS:
But what’s the nafka mina?The nafka mina is that since many Chabad chassidim (if not most or even all) considered the Rebbe to be infallible, and many felt that he had practically declared himself as Moshiach, when he passed away, they had no choice other than either denying that he had died, or changing longstanding mesorah (despite possible interpretations of some sources that could allow otherwise) in Klal Yisroel (including Chabad) that Moshiach will be a living person.
@Menachem
The navi [!] Shmuel was mistaken about Yishay’s sons – ha’adam yir’eh le’einayim , then why can we not be mistaken about someone who lives with us ?
.
The criteria to be a tsadiq is not ‘what people say’ about someone.
At least according to tanya , it depends on temptation to sin.there is no mention in tanya [or anywhere else] that ‘what people say ‘ is a criteria for tsadiq according to tanya.
Please correct me here if I am wrong.So bottom line – what is the source for the habad hasidim’s apparent core belief that their last [and late] rebbi was INFALLIBLE ?
.
Daas Yochid is very right here . There is a HUGE nafka mina .
.Tanya says that to decide whether someone is a tsadiq it depends on his temptations .
Menachem claims that there are ‘other’ ways to see whether he is a tsadiq .
Why does Tanya not mention those ‘other ways ?Is it because tanya holds that there are no ‘other ways’ ?
.
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