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“this geula is not just for Lubavitchers by Lubavitch, but here for the average joe.”
CS: Do you mean, by this, that the average Joe is on a lower level than Lubavitchers? (But even so, they’ll still get the geula.)
Otherwise, why did you find it necessary to point out that non-Lubavitchers will get the geula?
Sorry in advance if this is a little aggressive.
Are Chabadskers in general aware of how the rest of the frum world views them and their beliefs?
To clarify, on the Moshiach question many Chabadskers would cite numerous practices and statements from gedolim. However, their actions (and their acceptance of the actions of others) are not viewed as within the boundaries of normative Yiddishkeit by the vast majority of frum Jews, especially Rabbonim and Roshei Yeshivos. Like, a Livak may criticize how a Satmarer loves his Rebbe, and the Satmarer may view the Litvak as someone who doesn’t find joy in teffilah, but both of them will be in the same boat when they come across a yellow flagger.
Lostspark, don’t believe everything you read. If some things you read cause you to question, I suggest you find a knowledgeable, kind Lubavitcher you could trust to discuss these ideas with and hear his thoughts.
An example of a misunderstood fact that you mentioned (among others):
How come the Rebbitzin didn’t wear a sheitl but the Rebbe encouraged all Lubavitch women to do so? How come everyone lies when asked?
This is simply an error.
I just spoke to a guy who would bring the Rebbetzin’s sheitel to a sheitelmacher (Mrs. Kugel) all the time. In later years she had a gray/silver sheitel, and she would wear a tichel partially covering it.
(In the Rebbetzin deposition video, she is wearing this sheitel and tichel, as this man told me – he was present there as well.)
CS > The Alter Rebbe paskens you can’t daven to a picture (even a mirror is bad),
a good point. For those who do have rebbe’s picture in front of them:
if a chosid can daven in front of a picture, then the rebbe should be able to daven in front of a mirror. Is there any evidence that Rebbe davened in front of a mirror? I have a proof that he did not: when Chabad built first girl’s seminary, rebbe came to inspect the building and he suggested one addition: put mirrrors in each room. Evidently men in charge of construction did not think about it. Which proves that there were no mirrors in the rest of 770 complex. See, I can see the lack of mirrors without ever coming inside!PS As someone telling a story of Hasam Sofer visiting newly built Vienna shul and commenting on construction remarked: “for some reason, all these stories have a Rav visiting after construction instead of being asked in advance”. So much for daas Torah… Of course, this could be selection bias – only mistakes become stories; shuls built according to daas Torah have no stories attached.
ard > you consider them apikorsim there is no issur of loshon hora
so, people standing on street corners trying to find all lost yidden are apikorosim, but those who sit in their chadorim not even noticing the tragedy of millions are the tzadikim allowed to say loshon horo? Olam afuch … As R Soloveichik remarked to the argument that he learns less time than other gedolim due to his interest in philosophy: when they learn, I learn; when they talk loshon horo about me, I study philosophy.
Here’s a question, since the shlucha asked for it:
If the Rebbe is atzmus melubash haguf how does he have free will?
A tzaddik gamur (a given for the sake of argument) has no yetzer hara, this defeats the purpose of bechirah.
“I’m hoping they’ll actually learn how to read and think critically like me”- you’re a girl who has never learned a gemara, let alone a tosfos etc. what the heck is going on here
@ CS
Philosopher asked (Question 2):
“Do you pray to the rebbe?You responded:
I do what all frum Jews [do], daven to Hashem and ask my Rebbe for assistance via brachos etc. Again PB TANYA”Here’s the thing…
I think that “all frum jews do this” when (1) The Rebbe under discussion is here in olam hazeh bguf v’nefish or (2) the Rebbe was nistalek and the intent in that he be a malitz yoshor on behalf of the mispallel.
Do you believe either of the above?
Or maybe you mean that (3) the Rebbe “lo mes” and continues to be present in this world with a guf sheini and it is therefore appropriate to continue to relate him in the same way as one would if he was here in olam hazeh b’guf v’nefish? And by “all frum Jews do this” you mean how we relate to living rebbeim?
Please clarify
“A tzaddik gamur (a given for the sake of argument) has no yetzer hara, this defeats the purpose of bechirah“,
Lostspark,
The Gemara says there are four צדיקים גמורים and they are עמרם בנימין ישי & I can’t remember the fourth but anyways that disproves your claim
aaq- tell that to the gedolim who consider it apikorsus, and there are are many hashkafas (including mine personally) which heavily stress outreach, (such as chofetz chaim and R’ Noach Weinberg)
also its olam Hafuch
menachem answer lostspark’s other questions
@CS, More people heard of Elvis then heard of the Lub. rebbeh, an equal number believe he never died
“ I suggest you find a knowledgeable, kind Lubavitcher you could trust to discuss these ideas with and hear his thoughts.”
My mistake I asked a knowledgeable kind Lubavitcher that didn’t think the Rebbitzin wore a sheitl, I guess I should find knowledgeable kind Lubavitcher that doesn’t
Ard, there is no question that chabad was early in caring for the non religious jews in US. r Soloveitchik writes about this contradiction we are discussing in 1940s, under previous rebbe
CS is back with her half baked lies and full baked brainwash.
Special people with shitot nebach ranging from obnoxious and detestable to outright crazy.
The last line is an apt description of this theologically proven bankrupt hasidut.
Rahmana Litslan.What’s not under discussion here is what good habad people do all around the world.
What is under discussion here is the objectionable and abhorrent belief systems which are drilled into tamimi children and youth, who totally lose the ability to think for themselves anymore.
And used to brainwash unsuspecting baalei tshuva, making them think that this ersatz coffee created from who knows what , is really a delectable drink , far surpassing real coffee.
It is high time that this fraudulent worldview should be exposed for what it really is.
So again – habad consists of truly wonderful people , all nebah victims of mass brainwash and total inability of independent torah based critical thought.Important Notice
What’s not under discussion here is what good habad people do all around the world.
What is under discussion here is the objectionable and abhorrent belief systems which are drilled into tamimi children and youth, who totally lose the ability to think for themselves anymore.
And used to brainwash unsuspecting baalei tshuva, making them think that this ersatz coffee created from who knows what , is really a delectable drink , far surpassing real coffee.Detestable shitot can coexist with sincere ratson to improve the world . We have to keep remembering this.
It would be a travesty to ignore the former because of the latter.It is high time that this fraudulent worldview should be exposed for what it really is.
So again – habad consists of truly wonderful people , all nebah victims of mass brainwash and total inability of independent torah based critical thought.My mistake I asked a knowledgeable kind Lubavitcher that didn’t think the Rebbitzin wore a sheitl,
Well, obviously s/he wasn’t knowledgeable enough. 😃
(They obviously didn’t know the Rebbetzin personally, and were just guessing from the gray hair. As I said, the Rebbetzin wore a gray sheitel covered partially by a tichel, as was told to me by the one who often brought it to the sheitelmacher).
“ btw I’m pretty sure I’m descended from the Baal Shem Tov because we carry the name Aisenberg, although the exact details of the yichus are still shrouded in time).”
What does your doubtful gezh status have this have to do with you answering none of my questions?!?
I apologized those in the coffee room apparently satan made me ask those questions to stave off the Geulah and because I want to create arguments in Chabad. I’m glad the shlucha has everything figured out for us lol!
cs- heres a pretty strightforward question (considering you havent actually answered any of the other ones). why doesnt chabad accept any other gedolim?
“You got my reference to you. Well done. Without learning chassidus, non chassidim will need lots of tutoring to understand Moshiachs Torah. Since we are born with it and educated with it, it’s easier for Lubavitchers“
What brand of soap do you use? It looks like it does wonders!
but are too ashamed to even sing yechi in their own shuls
So they’re Amalek because they don’t think the rebbe is still alive?
“ You got my reference to you. Well done. Without learning chassidus, non chassidim will need lots of tutoring to understand Moshiachs Torah. Since we are born with it and educated with it, it’s easier for Lubavitchers”
What if a chasid spent his life learning sfas emes, Noam elimelech, keser Shem tov, kedushas levi, etc.
Is that chassidus?, will a Bobover understand Moshiachs Torah?!?
Do you not understand how ridiculously ignorant you sound when you say such things?
CS It’s amazing to see all the miracle stories and videos where yidden went to the Rebbe or wrote a pan and they got exactly what they needed. Even after gimmel Tammuz!
Strangely I have yet to see a JEM video that covers a story that didn’t work out, that could mean one of two things:
1. The Rebbes brocha works 100% of the time
2. You know the answer.
Maybe you should encourage everyone here to write panim to iggros and the Rebbe will tell them to become lubavitchers!
Or maybe you should take a step back and realize your condescending attitude does more harm to Chabad than anything else, and you are in over your head.
I apologized those in the coffee room apparently satan made me ask those questions to stave off the Geulah and because I want to create arguments in Chabad. I’m glad the shlucha has everything figured out for us lol!
Lostspark, I don’t think CS was saying that you were influenced by the Satan and distancing Geula. I think she was answering your question about why there is machlokes. Machlokes (“midyan”) is caused by the Satan (“samech mem”) and distances the Geula.
Strangely I have yet to see a JEM video that covers a story that didn’t work out, that could mean one of two things:
1. The Rebbes brocha works 100% of the time
2. You know the answer.
Maybe you should encourage everyone here to write panim to iggros and the Rebbe will tell them to become lubavitchers!Funny that I have yet to see emuna videos/books with stories of people davening to Hashem and their prayers not being answered.
Maybe daven that everyone on YWN see the truth and agree with you.
CS:
How do you communicate with your Rebbe? How does the Lubavitcher Rebbe answer your personal questions and advise you on how to conduct yourself on very specific personal issues and questions you have on what to do?
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