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VM, thanks for clarifying. I just wasn’t sure which direction your comment was coming from
ready now – That was a nice demonstration of the straw man fallacy. Thank you. You completely ignore the fact that I brought you a very clear Rambam and instead built this nice little issue of why the Rambam may or may not have read Plato. For your information, the story of Atlantis (not known by any other name…) was written as a small part of the dialogues of Timaeus and Critias, which the Rambam certainly read (at least the Arabic translations by Ibn Rushd or Ibn Sina, which had the ‘avodah zoro references’ removed) as he quotes both works. To blithely claim that he couldn’t have is simply not backed up by the evidence. And once again, I have shown you the Rambam about imagination, I have given you a mareh mokom. Where is yours for your claim? In the end, even the straw man you created has withstood your attack…
And finally, “I have also said the internet is forbidden”. Well what are you posting on if not the internet? Are you actually for real?!
[taste] or smell.” Parsha Vaeshanan [4:28] Not good at all.
[taste] or smell.” Parsha Vaeshanan [4:28]Also, math has been learned by Jewish people at the very basic level at home and that is all that is necessary in day to day life.
What books will your students be reading this year? Not sure if you still need book suggestions but here are some books you might want to consider (if not for now, then for the future):
The Giver by Lois Lowry
Charlotte’s Web by E.B. White
Oh, The Places You’ll Go by Dr. Seuss
The Secret Garden by Frances Hodgson Burnett
A Little Princess by Frances Hodgson Burnett
Ready now,
Look at the Aznayim LiTorah on Parshas tazria, perek 13 Posuk 46. He quotes robinson crusoe(it the artscroll translation, they skip that part).
Reading most Jewish books put out by most jewish publishers is NOT the way to learn english. Most of these publishing houses do not have proper copy editors to check proper grammar and more importantly dont seem to care about proper rules how to write in english (Sentance and Paragraph development) Story developement etc
A book lying on the bottom of a bookshelf in an institution is not proof that a gadol has read it. To say he did is lashon hara.
Suitable Jewish books are excellent ways to learn English. Most secular books are totally unsuitable to be read for any reason including for the purposes of learning English and are forbidden to us.
ready now – Did you even read my post? I wrote quite befeirush that the story of Atlantis was not a book in its own right but was in 2 of Plato’s books. I named them: Timaeus and Critias. And I then went on to say that the Rambam most definitely did read them (though not in the original Greek) as he quotes them. By the way, Plato himself was a strict monotheist, which you’d know if you’d ever read any of his philosophy. His theory of Emanations might intrigue you as well, if you wish to compare it to Sefiros. The references to avoda zoro in the story of Atlantis are artistic license, not serious theology.
Further, if it is as ossur as you say to read secular literature, and can be meivi lidei michsholim rabim, how on earth could a Rosh Yeshiva even have it on his private bookshelves (not, as you claim, in the institution)? Regardless of whether or not he read it (and he did), how could he have it in his house, in his study, on his shelves? It is not loshon horo to say that he did, as it is not derogatory. You create this arbitrary notion of Gadlus then decide that since in your opinion a Godol would not do it then it is loshon horo to say he did. If a Godol can do it, it is not loshon horo to say he did.
Your responses to NAS are equally misinformed. First, the national syllabus takes into account suitability of content anyway. And you cannot just ‘ask the government’ to be ‘culturally sensitive’, that’s just absurd. They do not set the exams – that is done by various examining boards, and the material must therefore be suitable for ALL the people sitting those examinations. The texts are standardized – everybody doing that board’s exam learns the same text. Nobody is going to set Jewish books as set texts for 1,000,000 non-Jewish kids so as to be ‘culturally sensitive’ to a couple of thousand Jewish ones.
And I’m not even going to get started with Lord of the Rings…
Also, “how to read and understand, to learn communication skills, to learn grammar, to learn how to construct a comprehensible sentence” are not skills that can be learned from Jewish literature because, as has been pointed out many times on this thread, these books display a profound lack of all the above skills. We also need to learn more than simply ‘basic’ maths if we wish to learn many sugyos of Gemoro. My chavrusa couldn’t understand what my problem was with the sugya of 10 trees to a beis cur when I asked him that the square root of 10 is an irrational number, and he is an intelligent young man who, at that point, had been in yeshiva for a number of years. Luckily, the rishonim knew more than simply ‘basic maths’ and therefore answered my question. Try learning eruvin without a good grasp of maths – my uncle, the Rav of Glasgow, said that he wished he’d learned more than just ‘basic maths’ for just that reason. Similarly science – the first perek of Sukka needs a good knowledge of optics, refraction, focal lengths, etc. as well as a fairly high standard of geometry. The Gr’a in hakdomo to Even Shleima says that a lack in knowledge of the 7 ‘amudei hachochmo’ (which includes maths and science) creates a chisoron in their knowledge of Torah. So of course there is a need for core subjects in everyday life if your everyday life includes limud Gemoro. Which it should.
And you continue to be on the internet…
ready now,
If robinson crusoe is traif, then why would he put it in the sefer?
Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead
Whose afraid of Virginia Woolfe
A Doll’s House
I read Animal Farm and Lord of the Flies in my 7th grade class for the record.
Very tough situation. I had the same problem years ago. I consulted with Rabbi Ginsburg from Minneapolis and he was very helpful. He had a good list of what was acceptable and what not.
“r.Crusoe” is treif, but the sin of lashon hara can be likened to murder, so it is very important to say not to say lashon hara-the Rabbi thought the book was a biography “co-written” with Defoe, and as I explained previosly above – it is clear he did not read it.
To say what you said about a gadol IS derogatory, and IS lason hara.
The definition of lashon hara extends to things that may be true also. However you have to use your sechel also, to see that a book on a shelf ( of which the person may not even be fully aware ) does not prove he read it.
That several people with slightly circumscribed writing and spelling skills may say to the contrary, will never convince anyone that suitable Jewish books are in any way lacking for the purposes of teaching English – they are not.
ready now,
How is it clear that he did not read the book? And why would he think it was co written with Dafoe?
J-M-H- Also, Sukka requires only very basic measuring skills.
Matan1 – the Rabbi thought it was co-wtitten, because the book says it was written by ‘r. Crusoe” with Defoe’s name on the front. It makes it look like an autobiography with a co-author.
The Rabbi would not have mentioned the book if he had known that people converted to x-tianity, as part of the book’s plot.
He mentioned it because he had not read it, but thought it to have been a factual record when in fact it was fiction.
ready now – Let me quote my original post: “was written as a small part of the dialogues of Timaeus and Critias,”. How is that not clear??
And you did not answer my question: If secular literature is so ossur, how could the Rosh Yeshiva have Shakespeare on his shelf, whether or not he read it? It’s on his private bookshelf! There is no New Testament there… And as I pointed out, it’s only derogatory to you because you have invented your own criteria for Gadlus based on what you think. Gadlus is not defined by your opinions of what a Godol should and shouldn’t do. If the Rosh Yeshiva has no problem with it, it is not derogatory to say so, and therefore not loshon horo.
As for your point about exam boards. Sorry, but you really don’t have a clue what you’re talking. Firstly, exam board regulation covers not what is set, but how the exams are marked (i.e. that they are marked fairly). The government has no control over the specifics of a syllabus, and, as pointed out, the syllabus is identical for every pupil sitting the exam of that board. You seriously suggest that 1,000,000 non-Jewish kids read The Maggid Speaks so that a couple of thousand Jewish ones don’t have to read Great Expectations?! Furthermore, the subject scores are not pooled, where on earth did you get that from? You get a result for each subject. I got 9 grades in my GCSE’s because I did 9 subjects. I got 3 grades in my A-levels because I did 3 subjects. And 1 A/S-level because I did one subject.
You quote a study by a London University exploring whether or not RE should be compulsory. Guess what? They don’t make the curriculum. It is not compulsory and is in no danger of becoming so, whether or not some people in a university think it should.
The quality of Jewish writing is very poor; that is an objective fact. It therefore is entirely unsuitable to suggest that Jewish literature be used for teaching English skills.
As for maths. “one CAN study it”. Are you even paying attention? One MUST study it! Seriously, try learning sukka daf 5 (basic measuring skills… don’t make me laugh!) without GOOD knowledge of maths. Or maybe pesachim daf 109. Or most of perek lo yachpor. Or all of eruvin. Or rosh hashono daf 22. Or a thousand other sugyos I could mention. And I’m sure I quoted a Gr’a concerning the 7 amudei hachochmo saying that chisronos in maths, sciences etc. leads to chisronos in Torah… Sounds like a MUST to me… Incidentially, the Gr’a had his talmidim translate as many works on maths and the sciences as possible into loshon hakodesh so that more yidden could study them. He even wrote a few himself. Maybe try learning Ayil Meshulosh with your ‘basic maths skills’…
Before you reply, please take the time to read this post properly and please be prepared to actually have some proper evidence for any of your claims. I have given you mareh mokom after mareh mokom. All you’ve given me is your own opinion as if it was moshe mipi hagevura…
What in fact are secular books other than scripts for a circus, a theatrical performance, an opera, a film etc , which are also not allowed for Jewish people by the Torah?
Basic and complex literacy in English can be learned by studying some suitable Jewish texts in English, or in the translations into English from their original Hebrew of suitable Jewish books.
ready now – And yet after me asking for mareh mekomos, you come back with your opinions. It’s hard to know where to start. You decided that ‘story’ = ‘book’, where this was not in any way indicated in post, then ignore the fact that I gave you the names in a second post and then after I show you exactly where you were wrong you jump back to the first post claiming that you never knew better…
You have this notion of ‘studying on a regular basis’ – what’s that supposed to mean? The Gr’a certainly studied maths to a high level, something you say is unnecessary. I give you logical arguments about loshon horo. You say “I disagree” and that’s that.
You have no understanding of what Chazal meant by ‘Circaso’os’ and ‘Te’atros’ because you do not know what these things were in the ancient world. Circuses were where wild animals were made to fight each other, or men made to fight each other, or both at the same time. The theatre had nothing to do with plays – those were performed in ampitheatres. And to then say that all literature is merely a bluepriint for plays is nonsense in the extreme. Poetry and novels are completely different media to plays. You have no knowledge of science fiction, wherein no magic or the such is performed (the clue is in the name science…).
And Shakespeare’s ‘anti-semitism’ is hotly debated by literary critics. At any rate, he did not ‘indoctrinate generations’, at the worst he reflected the prevailing attitudes of the times. To oppose learning Shakespeare on the grounds that he wrote in Old-English is just ridiculous – it’s not about the vocabulary (though many words we use in modern English were invented by him), it is about how to use the language, sentence structure, grammar, use of language. All of which Shakespeare is very useful for learning.
At no point have you actually answered any of my questions. You simply bleat on about how secular literature is ossur and how Jewish literature is good. And you have absolutely no evidence for either claim. The objective fact is this: the standard of Jewish literature is very poor, and if we wish to teach our children decent English skills then they are not suitable to learn from. Now. PLEASE. Stop being so blinkered and actually answer my questions. Give me mareh mekomos. Something, anything but your own opinions as if they were da’as torah. So, the questions again:
1) You claim the Rambam hated ‘imagination’, I show you the mareh mokom in the Rambam and what the Rambam really says. Where is your Rambam? Mareh mokom please.
2) If secular literature is ossur, how could a Rosh Yeshiva have the Collected Works of Shakespeare on his own private bookshelf, regardless of whether or not he read it?
3) How can you claim that only a ‘basic’ level of knowledge of maths and science is necessary when a good grasp of some fairly intricate maths and science is needed for many sugyos in shas? I even gave you a few of the sugyos to look up so you could see for yourself.
4) How can you learn English skills from Jewish literature when that literature is not of any sort of decent standard? (And please don’t just say that it is good enough. It isn’t. You have displayed a profound lack of knowledge of both literature and English skills thus far. Those who are competent have all agreed that Jewish literature just isn’t good enough. I’m not sure you’re qualified to disagree.)
5) Who on earth gave you the right to decide what a Godol should or shouldn’t do? Who made you the arbiter of Gadlus? If a Godol does not think that there is anything wrong with something, how can you tell me that for me to say that that is what the Godol says is loshon horo?
Direct answers. Evidence. Mareh mekomos. That’s all I ask for. I suspect it may be too much to hope for.
Just my Hapence – you told me a few weeks ago not to continue with a question, it won’t lead anywhere good. So I’m returning the favour (yes, note the “u”, I’m also one of Her Majesty’s subjects, though not in your neck of the woods). Ready Now is not ready to discern that a real godol can separate the wheat from the chaff; he is not ready to accept that what Rambam read and did not read is something for which we have no evidence, as Rambam didn’t enlighten us as to what parts of Plato he read and why. As an aside, wasn’t Plato quoting Solon who was quoting even older Egyptian sources?
Ready now is not ready to understand that one learns the best use of language by studying how others have used it; Shakespeare taught generations how vast and complex the usage of English even in the 17th century could be. yeshivos and bais yaakovs have used his works for generations. Tolkien is also an excellent teacher in that regard, and there are few who can comapre with his style, structure, and approach to imagery. On the other hand, so is Orwell, who was an atheist, but that doesn’t stop yeshivos and bais yaakovs around the world from using Animal Farm. As you may know, one of the best essays on the use of language is Orwell’s “Politics and the English Language” which I highly recommend to anyone, and it is easy to find online.
As I have noted on other threads, Rashi was an astute observer of the development of French language. He included over 1300 transliterations to Old French in his commentary on the Torah, and over 3500 in the commentary on the gemoro. Does Ready Now think that all of them had something to do with the growing of grapes or the selling of wine, which was Rashi’s trade? Does anyone develop a vocabulary of over 5000 complex words in a language without reading it?
I don’t think Ready Now is ready for the mamashus of this discussion.
or maybe he read the book?
ready now,
I would highly recommend Making of a Gadol by Rav Nosson Kaminetsky, who writes about how Rav Ahron Kotler read russian novels when he was young. You can get the pdf online.
Russain novels ftw! Gogol is the best. ^_^
One thing is for sure – it is forbidden to believe that the Rav read those books.
UK schools are not rquired to teach any goyishe literature, and very few of them do, and someone here has spoken loshon haro about an entire country.
R’ leib gurwicz was born and bred in lithuania, and supposedly lost his first shtelle in england when he reffered to egypt as egg-whipped,so i cannot beleive he read, far less understood shakespeare. He was mechanech his sons, hage’oinim r’ avrohom and r’ chayim oizer sheyichyu with a brisker chinuch, and i find it hard to beleive that they can read shakepeare either.
I think this should be put on the leitzonus thread, and the person who suggested it be mekabel nidui, and ask mechila by his kever.
12 angry men is one of the best plays I’ve ever read.
It’s mighty interesting even to those usually uninterested students.
it’s 100% clean and so is the video.
For those looking for the ????? ???? it is in
??”? ?”? ?’ ?”?
i think that it is pretty clear.
yichusdik – I appreciate your concern, however the point of this discussion is not for me to ‘prove’ anything to ready now. It is to show everybody else that people like ready now are quite willing to pontificate about whatever they feel like without any real evidence; that they are bombastic, dogmatic and will simply try and ride rough-shod over anything that challenges their nice, neat little world-view. They will not answer direct questions directly, nor bring mareh mekomos for their ‘quotes’, nor any evidence for any of their claims. They think they can shoot a fly with a blunderbuss. Did you see how I asked ready now 5 very specific questions, asked outright for direct answers, evidence and mareh mekomos and yet ready now simply ignored all of them and instead wrote some waffle about something I’d already explained to him/her in the previous post. The point is that I think many posters in the CR feel a bit overwhelmed or threatened by people like ready now and I’m trying to show them that they shouldn’t be, that ready now and his/her ilk are not the sole arbiters of hashkofo, nor do they often even know what they are talking about. They simply claim things and, when challenged, repeat their claims, thinking that simple repetition, maybe with added capitalization, is good enough to answer those challenges (see ready now’s repeated assertion that all literature “IS a ‘blueprint'” for plays etc. despite lack of evidence and despite the fact that I raised logical objections to the claim). I hope that clarifies things.
I think we are all wasting our time and our words on ready now. He is just not going to change his opinion and it really is like talking to a brick.
For all those who really are interested, I once asked a teacher of mine in sem what was her position on literature (her being well-read and also a writer), as I have always enjoyed writing, yet it is difficult for someone with a wide reading background to break into the Jewish literature market since my English is too good for them and also there are really only three main storylines that are used (shidduch, someone off the derech or finding out they are Jewish, or the holocaust).
She told me: it doesn’t have to be set in a Jewish community, or have protagonists with Jewish names to be a kosher novel. It just needs to follow basic Jewish values and not have Apikorsus. Let me define ‘Apikorsus’ – this means that if it speaks of so called other gods (plural) and this can be taken seriously by the reader, or if the author is trying to put his own atheistic views heavily into the storyline (think Dark Materials trilogy) then it is Apikorsus. If there is only a single deity ever referred to in the story (whether it is called Hashem or God or something else) then it is acceptable. Monotheism doesn’t care what name you call it, as long as it is recognised as being only One, Who created everything.
Magic and the likes: Rabbi YY Rubinstein has an excellent shiur called ‘Harry Potter and Torah’. The fact is that many people today don’t realise that magic exists, and is forbidden to us. That does not mean we should not read stories about it – as long as the magic involved does not come with paganism or Apikorsus added into the story. In many fantasy stories (including Lord of the Rings) magic is merely an ability that some people have and most of them are trying to use it for the good. Referring to above example, there are no pagan rituals involved in the using of Gandalf’s magic, no animal sacrifices or dances round a fire. He simply waves his staff. Also in Harry Potter (what on earth is Hairy Porter? – Never heard of that book!) they wave their wands and say a few words, which by the way have been taken from Latin. There is no connection between the magic portrayed in these books and the black, pagan magic that is forbidden to us. I doubt anything would happen if I took a bit of wood, waved it and said ‘wingardium leviosa’.
Food for thought…
NAS – like I said, my posts are bit like the ‘hak’he es shinov’, not for the rosho but for the people watching, similarly my posts are not really for ready now but for the other people reading.
NAS – like I said, my posts are bit like the ‘hak’he es shinov’, not for the rosho but for the people watching, similarly my posts are not really for ready now but for the other people reading.
Previous post should read “the ‘hak’he es shinov’ of the haggada”.
Ready now,
Forget it. Its not worth my time to follow this thread and try to convince you of reality. You can believe whatever warped view you want but it wont change the facts. And I bet you believe that the Netziv closed velozhin because the government demanded russian and math to be taught. Whatever. Your loss.
goldersgreener – R’ Avrohom, not R’ Leib. I’ve seen the book, so I’m not sure what more there is to discuss…
Magic-black magic or white magic are the same and are both forbidden to us as are the books on them or referencing them. Rabbi Rubinstein was making the point that kishuf (magic) powers are much less today than they were years ago, however it is still forbidden for us to read.
Thank you Matan1- the Netziv did indeed close the yeshiva because the government demanded Russian and math to be taught.
Basic and complex literacy in English can be learned by studying some suitable Jewish texts in English, or in the translations into English from their original Hebrew of suitable Jewish books.
Ready now, you have just made the most laughable yet sad mistake in your reply to me. I asked a teacher in SEM, who teaches HASHKAFA her opinion on literature. Please read things properly before you reply because that will get you into trouble worse than this forum. You are really getting a lot of people angry.
Mods – just wondering why my post from nearly six hours ago is still awaiting moderation when posts submitted later are already through. Could you enlighten me?
Mods – why was my previous post not acceptable? What in it contravened the rules? What made you refuse to let it go up?
Not a sheep, you wrote:
“Veltz Meshugener” – please agree that the following type of attitude, a lack of respect of Yiddiskeit, is the predominent cause of OTD-“going off the derech”:
“Probably the biggest benefit to reading is expanding your horizons and encountering new ways to think of things”.
Jewish “horizons” are “state of the art” there is none better.
The goyim have some chochma, mostly technology and similar, but the seven pillars of wisdom are still Torah which INCLUDES all wisdom including that of the goyim.
The misguided attitude of investing customs and behaviours from the goyim with importance leads to a perception in the OTD person that he or she is climbing a ladder, when in fact they are descending the ladder and at a very rapid rate, has v shalom.
“Veltz Meshugener” – please agree that the following type of attitude, a lack of respect of Yiddiskeit, is the predominent cause of OTD-“going off the derech”:
“Probably the biggest benefit to reading is expanding your horizons and encountering new ways to think of things”.your words in this post.
I omitted to say the quote are the words of “Veltz Meshuger”, with which I disagree as I explained in my previous post.
“Veltz Meshugener” – please agree that the following type of attitude, a lack of respect of Yiddiskeit, is the predominent cause of OTD-“going off the derech”:
Jewish “horizons” are “state of the art” there is none better.
The goyim have some chochma, mostly technology and similar, but the seven pillars of wisdom are still Torah which INCLUDES all wisdom including that of the goyim.
The misguided attitude of investing customs and behaviours from the goyim with importance leads to a perception in the OTD person that he or she is climbing a ladder, when in fact they are descending the ladder and at a very rapid rate, has v shalom.
I have a great respect for Yiddishkeit. I love Torah and mitzvos and all things that come with it. And I have seen firsthand that it is those closed, narrow families who try to fit their kids into a very tight box of what is allowed or expected of them that end up with their kids off the derech. Seen it too many times in my community. Those families who are slightly more open and understand that their children cannot be squashed within boundaries end up with their children remaining close to our roots. The predominant cause of going off the derech is actually refusing to see what our children really need from us since we are all individuals. Telling a gifted and artistic child that they are not allowed to paint cause it’s ‘not what we do’ or showing signs of hypocrisy in behavious – that is the problem.
And I see that you declined to either acknowledge my post or apologise to me for what you said. That is a direct contravention of halacha (you falsely accused me of saying something I did not). I am still waiting for my bracha from you, though I am not sure what you could say to me that I would consider a sincere one.
I very clearly said in the first post that it was my sem teacher. If sem teachers don’t teach hashkafa, what DO they teach?
And you are still not acknowledging the fact that you grossly misquoted me and are now trying to cover yourself up by likening a well-respected person’s views to actually teaching the subject.
Anger is only likened to avoda zara when you lose yourself. I have not lost myself, I have not lost my temper, I am merely expressing my deep frustration at having my words twisted by someone else and then not even bothering to back down when they have clearly shown themselves to be in the wrong. You cannot justify misrepresenting someone in order to suit your own very warped sense of thinking. I would still like an apology.
On a different note, I would like to ask a question, and would love to get a straight, non-avoidant answer. You laid claims to certain books, saying that the content in them was questionable (I am referring back to Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings and the like). If books are so forbidden, how do you know the content of them, other than what you may have heard from others, which of course could have been exaggerated or twisted round – unless, of course, you have read them? If you have not read them, then with all due respect, you have no idea what you are talking about. And if you have, then please refer to my previous post on the causes of OTD.
Looking forward to your reply. And please do us the favour of thinking very carefully before you do so.
Notasheep- you say you love Yiddiskeit, but your activities have been exposed by you in this thread, but you are really better than that – we all could be better.
There is no reason for anyone to be hypocritical- just admit what is permitted and what is not.
Likely very few.
I have read many Jewish books. Rabbi Paysach Krohn is one of the few talented Jewish writers. However, you have still missed my point and still failed to recognise that in my original post I very clearly wrote than it was my sem teacher that I asked. You would not judge me if you really knew me – nothing I have written in this thread has ‘exposed’ me, as you write. I am true to myself, I always have been. Yes, I love literature and fiction – how can you ask someone with a vivid and colourful imagination not to read fiction? And don’t tell me there is decent Jewish fiction because there is not. Trust me. However, if you were ever to come to my house, you would see a great ahavas torah u’mitzvos. I play my part in our nation with pride, I teach my child how wonderfully lucky we are, I sing to her, I look forward to Shabbos and Yamim Tovim with joy and enjoy every single moment of keeping the Torah. I am also, by the way, a kindergarten teacher and I love my job, being able to pass our heritage onto even more children. I don’t think that my love of well-written, suitable fiction is in any way affecting me as a person, and I do try to stay away from novels that are unclean. However, if the book has no adult language or content, is not heretical or atheistic and contains no avoda zara then it is perfectly acceptable to read.
On the other note, there are many gifted Jewish artists who are frum (Gadi Pollack, for example???). I happen to know quite a few personally. By the way I also paint, although I don’t sell my paintings. However, what you said about being a mentsch can extend to our book issue. I am a mentsch, have always acted in a way that can only be described as honest and hardworking. I have a family. I teach (which is likened to Torah learning for a woman), and my reading does not contravene any halachos – since I steer clear of those questionable issues that can come up in literature.
Ready now, I see that perhaps you sincerely pity me since you feel like maybe I am either a misguided modern othodox person or baalas teshuva who finds it difficult to let go of past enjoyment. I am neither, and am proud to be part of a yeshivish community. And really, I pity you more for your inability to be honest and open with all of us on this thread.
Perhaps family gurwicz have shakesspear on their shelves because Rabbetzin Sarah enjoys reading it? She is a rerally educated woman.
BTW, R’ Avrohom supposedly davens sometimes without a minyan, and i doubt he takes the brisker leniencies and not the stringencies.
ready now – I note you’re still on the internet, still avoiding answering direct questions and still twisting peoples’ words to suit yourself. My sincere brocho to you, and I mean it, is for you to do teshuva about false accusations, misrepresentations, shakrus, bad hashkofo and worse middos. That you actually learn about the things you feel somehow qualified to pontificate about.
And I have read all the Maggid books, btw. I can make informed comparisons. Can you?
Now you have to do Teshuva for reading secular books. Its no wonder so many are going OTD, Since almost everything according to you is an averah, why not go full fledged.
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