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You guys are so clueless. Most hospitals send women home if they arrive too early, some women have impossibly short labors (not the first child) and driving yourself in an emergency can be deadly, or even impossible if there are injuries.
Bleeding, burns, even appendicitis or severe pain can lead to shock, and most issues can unexpectedly escalate.
And how easy is it to get a cab during a snowstorm? Thank G-d for Hatzolah.
Are there people abusing the system? Most definitely yes, but to go back to the way things were or still is in middle America is virtually suicidal, and not an option for Jews who value
life.
Health: adding women into the Hatzolah mix adds another layer of logistics where the benefit does not outweigh the risks. Even if you’re right with all your solutions, they may cost valuable time to be lost or backfire when things go awry.
Bottom line, if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.
Health,
You are totally wrong, OB calls used to be BLS, its changed and became an automatically ALS call, in the system and in Hatzoloh.
Any imminent OB call, will have para,edics on the scene, unless its just a fancy taxi job.
The reason behind the change if protocol is because most women (not chasidishe that always wait till its to late) that call EMS for a delivery usually have poor prenatal care, therefore the protocol demands that Paramedics be called even though its a BLS skill.
I have been reading the arguments of both sides, I really think that this should be discussed with the EMTs and Paramedics that currently do it, see what they have to say.
Again, in new square, because they must have females on the transport (per the rebbes protocol), they have a hard time finding EMTs and Paramedics for OB calls. A serious married person does not want to sit in an ambulance with females, especially if they are part of the crew.
It might solve the issue of “some” female patients being more comfortable, however it raises halachik questions
You guys are so clueless. Most hospitals send women home if they arrive too early,
You know why they send you home? Because it is safe to. That’s when they send you home. So sometimes you go and get sent home.
some women have impossibly short labors (not the first child) and driving yourself in an emergency can be deadly, or even impossible if there are injuries.
If you’re afraid to drive, have your husband drive you. The way most Americans get to the hospital for a birth is by private car or taxi. You can do that also, instead of shlepping my brother out of seder or away from his family.
And how easy is it to get a cab during a snowstorm?
You’ve proven my point, when you start talking about snowstorms. Sure, in a snowstorm, if you have no other way, then call an ambulance.
pba- there are many situations where an all female team would be of use. There are many women capable of handling the entire situation including the transfer without any men. Men cannot possibly understand a woman’s feelings of having a stranger see her in an uncomfortable way. At least that stranger should be a woman. And Health- some woman are perfectly educated and still don’t have time. Ever heard of silent labor?
No I wasn’t but I had a mother who was a cuz a sibling a aunt etc so I know some of them wnt to early to hospital so wassent home!!!
Guys, (and gals), Don’t you know by now that PBA and Health by virtue of their extensive awesomeness (and your lowliness) that they will always have an answer for you? That they will always have the super stretched kniatch svara somewhere that somehow backs up their point as right? Please, there is no way that anyone knows anything more than those two. All the people need is some clean cloth and pressure and shoin! all bleeding will be controlled. Henceforth, no one shall have any valid point should PBA or Health disagree with them. And if should be so foolish to insist thathave a point, they will get a severe tongue lashing in the form of Health or PBA pointedly telling them that they are foolish, naeive, and wrong A SECOND TIME!!!
I’m glad you got that out of your system. I’m happy to facilitate.
Gamanit,
As someone that responds to emergencies, I can assure that you most people when having a TRUE medical emergency male or female do not care who the tech is.
“pba- there are many situations where an all female team would be of use.”
Such as?
By the way, what makes you think that the female tech will be an all stranger? it might be the lady you will meet in the grocery or your neighbor.
Does that make you more comfortable?
2scents- AGREE!!!!!
oh am I happy that pba and health aren’t hatzolah members
Mammele -“You guys are so clueless. Most hospitals send women home if they arrive too early, some women have impossibly short labors (not the first child) and driving yourself in an emergency can be deadly, or even impossible if there are injuries.”
What makes you an expert? Having many kids? If this gives you expertise -why use medical care at all for childbirth? Stay home!
Noone said drive yourself -how about a spouse, relative, neighbor? And the middle two points are due to lack of education in most cases which I’ve repeatedly said. Hardly anyone has less than an hour long labor.
“Bleeding, burns, even appendicitis or severe pain can lead to shock, and most issues can unexpectedly escalate.”
I didn’t know e/o could diagnose Appy’s at home. I thought that was my job. Yes, bleeding, burns, pain or abdomen pain -all can be minor -not needing an ambulance. Get some education.
“And how easy is it to get a cab during a snowstorm? Thank G-d for Hatzolah.”
Stop with the one-in-a-million case. This proves nothing.
“Health: adding women into the Hatzolah mix adds another layer of logistics where the benefit does not outweigh the risks. Even if you’re right with all your solutions, they may cost valuable time to be lost or backfire when things go awry. Bottom line, if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.”
Wrong -they are trained like e/o else. There are Rabbonim that say it’s a prob of Tzinus -so why object? Not one poster has put up a real logical argument. So perhaps Hatzolah should rethink their position?
2scents -“Health, You are totally wrong, OB calls used to be BLS, its changed and became an automatically ALS call, in the system and in Hatzoloh.
Any imminent OB call, will have para,edics on the scene, unless its just a fancy taxi job.”
I know the protocol -I posted it above. If Medics come to assess instead of EMT’s first – fine. After their assessment they could still hand it over to women and pack out.
“The reason behind the change if protocol is because most women (not chasidishe that always wait till its to late) that call EMS for a delivery usually have poor prenatal care, therefore the protocol demands that Paramedics be called even though its a BLS skill.”
Yes, so you need Medics because their is a risk of health to the Newborn. Again, so by your own admission this doesn’t apply in the Frum comunity. So you don’t need medics with Frum women.
And even if you did, the EN women want to become Medics anyway.
“I have been reading the arguments of both sides, I really think that this should be discussed with the EMTs and Paramedics that currently do it, see what they have to say.”
Oh EN did sit down with Hatzolah and they nixed it. And they claim they nixed it for the wrong reasons and I agree with them!
“Again, in new square, because they must have females on the transport (per the rebbes protocol), they have a hard time finding EMTs and Paramedics for OB calls. A serious married person does not want to sit in an ambulance with females, especially if they are part of the crew.”
I agree. I guess you still didn’t read my post above. I suggested a different way of doing it.
“It might solve the issue of “some” female patients being more comfortable, however it raises halachik questions”
I didn’t know your EMT or Medic cert and Hatzolah plaque made you a Poisek and Not just a Poisek, but a big one at that. New Square had Poiskim that said it’s better for women to do this. EN got the Haskama of the Karlsburg Rov. What Hatzolah said this is against R’Moshe zt’l’s Psak. What they failed to say was in no way was THIS Shailah asked to R’ Moshe. The Shaila back then was should women be allowed to join in general.
Ctrl Alt Del -“All the people need is some clean cloth and pressure and shoin! all bleeding will be controlled.”
Excuse me Mr. Nurse in the ICU -is that what I said? Maybe in the ICU e/o needs central lines, but Not in the real world. The fact remains that Most bleeding will be controlled by pressure and a bandage. You don’t need EMT’s or Medics for minor bleeding.
You felt you must respond with sarcasm and lies like I just pointed out. Why? Do you need to be a member of Hatzolah to validate your existance?
Gamanit -“And Health- some woman are perfectly educated and still don’t have time. Ever heard of silent labor?”
I admitted to this in a few posts. But this is the exception instead of the rule. Miyut Shaino Motzuy!
if i was ever having a medical emergency i wud be SOO glad 2 have a female trained hatzalla member.. i think theyr doing a huge mitzva and make women and girls waay more comfterable andd make the scary sitch way less akward..
Most of the posters here are missing two critical points:
1. Hatzalah does not often take pregnant women to the hospital, as they usually go with their husband or by car service.
2. Women across America (Jews and Gentiles) use standard 911 EMS service that has a chance that the paramedic and ambulance crew will be male or female. The patient rarely ever knows in advance. Yet there is no major outcry by American women to institute a “female ambulance service” due to “women’s special needs” only addressable by “other women”.
So, frankly, this whole hubabaloo is much ado about nothing, regarding an unneeded service being promoted for feministic reasons that will rarely be called.
Does anyone really think frum women are going to call this newfangled women’s ambulance service instead of calling Hatzalah when they are in midst of a medical emergency??
FIA: Your point 2 is a good point.
And you are correct, the only time it will be called is for the free rides to the hospital when in labor, and then–only when it isn’t an emergency.
Fia- perfectly said I agree!!!!! Yosher choach!!!
FIA -“1. Hatzalah does not often take pregnant women to the hospital, as they usually go with their husband or by car service.”
What does often mean? Yes, there are plenty of calls that are routine OB transports and some of these are actually childbirth. Don’t make it sound that all their OB calls are actually deliveies.
“2. Women across America (Jews and Gentiles) use standard 911 EMS service that has a chance that the paramedic and ambulance crew will be male or female. The patient rarely ever knows in advance. Yet there is no major outcry by American women to institute a “female ambulance service” due to “women’s special needs” only addressable by “other women”.”
I’m not a spokesman for EN, but don’t compare Jewish women to Goyishe ones. EN claims that many Frum women don’t want to be treated during OB emergs by Frum males. Esp. if these Male providers are people they personally know from around the neighborhood. I don’t think they’d go all out to start such an org. if they didn’t have many women who felt this way.
FIA -“So, frankly, this whole hubabaloo is much ado about nothing, regarding an unneeded service being promoted for feministic reasons that will rarely be called.”
This part shows your bias -you prob are a Hatzolah member. Saying that they are only doing it for feministic reasons is like saying all Hatzolah members are only doing it for Kovod. I don’t try to read minds whether it’s Hatzolah guys or EN ladies – noone knows why people do things -some mean well and some don’t.
And how do you call it “uneeded” – these women who started this feel it’s needed?
My only objection is that this project should Not be supported by the Klal -the women who started it and the women that will use it – should support it. As it is there are many needy Jews and there is not enough Tzedaka money to go around.
Please don’t get carries away with psak.
Each Hatzoloh has their board of rabonim that know the details and are involved in the day to day halachik questions that arise.
So don’t make it seem as if EN have rabonim and Hatzoloh does not, in fact karlsburger ruv is a very controversial rav.
Besides they did not approach the rabonim that run Hatzoloh, nor did they approach Hatzoloh. They only approached the media.
I don’t know why your changing facts, currently in Hatzoloh each OB call is an ALS call, in NY it’s an ALS call, if someone calls 911 medics will show up, they might not transport however they will do the delivery, currently EN only have EMTs which means their care will be on a lower level then if the PT would have called Hatzoloh or 911.
Tznius isn’t a reason. Women go to male obstetricians all the time.
I think this is another attempt for women to want to do everything men can. A further erosion of gender differences.
Women go to male obstetricians all the time.
But never to my son’s Rebbe or my husband’s chavrusa. Sorry but I have to strongly disagree on that point. I would probably feel uncomfortable with Hatzolo if my hair was uncovered and I couldn’t cover it up.
It depends on the woman. I had a very bad experience with a male gyno, in fact I could probably sue he was so unprofessional, and i now try to avoid male ob/gynos as much as i can.
You are right that many woman are okay having male obs but many aren’t. However, even for the ones who are okay with it, they would never be comfortable if they knew him from outside the office.
If it was a female familiar person I wouldn’t wnt her delIverimg my baby!!
interjection: If you think it rose to the level of illegal behavior, you should definitely file a report with the state certifying board. So that he won’t do it to other women.
2scents -“Each Hatzoloh has their board of rabonim that know the details and are involved in the day to day halachik questions that arise.”
So did they ask their Rabbonim about this or did they tell them?
“So don’t make it seem as if EN have rabonim and Hatzoloh does not, in fact karlsburger ruv is a very controversial rav.”
Name a Rov that paskened it’s better to have males on OB calls than women!
“Besides they did not approach the rabonim that run Hatzoloh, nor did they approach Hatzoloh. They only approached the media.”
This is Not true. I didn’t know Rabbonim ran Hatzolah. As far as I know they have a board of Rabbonim that they ask things to, but they don’t run it. Also, EN sat down with Hatzolah org. in NYC and they nixed it with the claim R’ Moshe zt’l Assured it. They must know how to talk with Maecim, because R’ Moshe zt’l never Assured any such thing in his lifetime. He did say women shouldn’t join Hatzolah, but that was in general. He was never was asked about Ob/Gyn calls.
“I don’t know why your changing facts, currently in Hatzoloh each OB call is an ALS call, in NY it’s an ALS call, if someone calls 911 medics will show up, they might not transport however they will do the delivery, currently EN only have EMTs which means their care will be on a lower level then if the PT would have called Hatzoloh or 911.”
Enough with the lower level bit. I told you before that Hatzolah could have had these women join and they could send EMT’s or Medics to the call originally and if it’s not an imminent delivery – they could back off and have the women care for the pt. and they could drive the bus.
Does Hatzolah pay you for being their spokesman? If they don’t, they should. Maybe you can fool most people, but I know what’s really going on.
rebdoniel -“Tznius isn’t a reason. Women go to male obstetricians all the time.”
Another Poisek in the CR. Do you have any real reknowned Poiskim that agree with you? And picking a Doc is allowed because you need to get the best one, but there is no difference between EMT’s. At least EN EMT’s did extra training in Ob which regular EMT’s don’t have. I see no reason that women if they prefer to have females shouldn’t have them. They shouldn’t be forced to have a male if they call Hatzolah. I thought this was an org. for the community -are these women part of the community?
“I think this is another attempt for women to want to do everything men can. A further erosion of gender differences.”
Another mind reader of the EN women.
A freilichin purim to all
Health “Excuse me Mr. Nurse in the ICU”
While I am sure there are many fine men in the nursing profession, I am not one of them.
My post still stands. No matter what the argument, somehow no matter how infinitesimally small the knaitch is, there will be some way that you will find yourself right. Its not an attack. It is sarcastic. But it is what it is.
Health – Can you please chill out? You get so many posts from people asking, telling and begging you to stop being so harsh, doesn’t that register? No need to give me a nasty retort, just figure out what stops you from having a civil conversation and start working on it. People may have an easier time hearing your point if it isn’t accompanied by unprecedented put downs.
Maybe I should post my sentences individually to make it easier for you to cut, paste and shred them.
And I’m putting my finger in my ears so I won’t hear if you answer. This message is for you to digest, not regurgitate.
Ctrl Alt Del -“My post still stands. No matter what the argument, somehow no matter how infinitesimally small the knaitch is, there will be some way that you will find yourself right. Its not an attack. It is sarcastic. But it is what it is.”
If it isn’t an attack – then what is it? The purpose of the CR is Not to sit around like women in bungalow colonies (or Lakewood) do and yenta and agree one with another. The attraction for people to come here is the differences of opinion. You’re entitled to your opinion and I’m entitled to mine. If you don’t like the fact that I’m argumentive – you have a choice – either say nothing – or respond with a logical argument – or make nasty comments. You choose the latter. Now even if you don’t have a logical response – why Not say nothing? What compels you to make your comments on others? The first two responses don’t show a lack of Middos, while the last one does.
You see for example -I’m assuming you posted here in this topic because either you agree with Hatzolah about EN or you’re Hatzolah. The reason you don’t respond with a logical argument even if you had one, because you have No fear – you don’t care about right and wrong – you just will do whatever you want because you know the sheep will Not stand up to you.
Syag Lchochma -“Health – Can you please chill out? You get so many posts from people asking, telling and begging you to stop being so harsh, doesn’t that register? No need to give me a nasty retort, just figure out what stops you from having a civil conversation and start working on it. People may have an easier time hearing your point if it isn’t accompanied by unprecedented put downs.”
Now I’m sure you mean well, but what I don’t understand is your selective reading. Go back and read the recent posts from page 3 and read all the posts till now. You’ll see that I wasn’t the one that started attackng others and most of my put-downs were just defenses against others. Now if you were my mother or my Mashchiach -I’d understand why you’re commenting on my posts, but that isn’t the case. And since there are far worse “harsh, put-down” posts than mine – why are you singling me out? Do you have some bias against me?
I’ve never read any teshuva advocating for the exclusive use of male Ob/Gyns. We’re not Muslim fanatics. We believe “Ve Chai Bahem.”
All EMT’s are more than capable of delivering babies. It’s an important part of their training.
A professional male doing his duties is not a situation of pritzus. Part of why I am not crazy about the “Yoetzet” movement is that the assumption there is that a male rabbi who looks at a bedika cloth or who discusses matters pertaining to niddah is somehow not oisgehalten; it makes men out to be perverts and sexualizes things that are not sexual in these contexts. There is nothing sexual about delivering a baby, unless people’s mistaken ideas make it out to be that way.
Health, you might not have been the one that started the attacking, however you are not shy of attacking others.
In fact a large part of your arguments are usually personal attacks.
Interesting that most of your debates for some reason turn personal, for this reason I have decided not to respond to your posts, even though in this topic I am the one in the know and you are clearly not!
Health-“I’m assuming you posted here in this topic because either you agree with Hatzolah about EN or you’re Hatzolah”
Actually neither,This topic interests me because I am a healthcare provider and things that effect or impact the delivery of care interest me. These topics also happen to attract you. Only your replies to hard questions and issues seems to be the spaghetti approach. When you want to know if spaghetti is truly done al-dente, you throw a single one against the wall. If it sticks its done. If it falls, you cook the rest a little longer and test agin in a minute or so.
Now, after people call you out on your responses or they disagree with you, you resort to flinging another noodle. And then another. And then another. And then the accusations and name calling. Its a pattern. We’re all used to it by now. (At least some of us are) Its amusing (at least to me). So I sit back and I watch the fireworks and I make a small quip on how this entire thread is following a predictable track.
As a humble suggestion, try to recognize that sometimes other people bring value to the table. You may not agree with them, but try to recognize that other peoples opinions/education/experience lend credence and value to their statements. the title of omnipotence and omniscience has already been taken, by God.
I have a feeling that I am about to be called a Hatzolah member, an ICU nurse, a PA, an NP, a paramedic, and uneducated boor, a holier-than-thou doofus, a stalker, a lout, an oisvorf, a troll….etc etc etc……. To quote Dilbert “I eagerly await your bizarre and other-worldly response”
RebDoniel, thats an interesting take on the Yoetzet thing. But i think that kinda our fault too. Judaism is constantly obsessed with sexuality. We prohibit almost every interaction between men and women (and we seem to frown upon things that women want to do themselves, and can and should do) but yet we seem to make an exception for certain things. Like mochs and bedikahs. Its a little disconcerting. Think about this, imagine being an outsider, you know about our strict separation of the sexes yet, when a question arises about what could arguably be one of the most personal things ever, you have to bring it to a rabbi!! TO EXAMINE IT!! It looks skewed. Now, I really dont care what outsiders may think. But this is fostering a very bad feeling among women within the fold. WE are saying that men are uncontrollable and are seconds away from transgressing halachic sexual violations so why do we allow a man to perform such an intimate examination?? Shouldn’t a woman do that too? So I think we are being complicit in fostering this feeling among the women of our community.
As an aside IMHO if a woman wants to do something, and its fully within the realm of their doing, why should they be prohibited from it or even frowned upon for doing it.
I tend to have nuanced, well-thought positions on things.
I see, ironically, the Yoetzet movement and the Ezras Nashim movement as rooted in a similar mentality- women like feminizing basic societal strictures.
And if a woman is concerned about fixing her hair when the paramedics arrive- that is simply silly. Don’t most women who believe that they have to cover hair wear a mitpachat in the home?
Gamanit: i didnt even think about the safety issue, you are so right.
popa_bar_abba: omg! i couldnt stop shaking my head in agreement as i read your post! Thank goodness my head is between my shoulders so i wont be affected for years to come about the hatzoloh members coming to stabilize it…;)
health: gosh, i think my kids would move out if both my husband and i were on hatzoloh and EN!! Truth is, my husband is one of the few members that actually keep to the rule of not discussing anything about a call he goes on, which brings me to my next reason why this is not good for women…;)
skype: i could be off, but i believe that hatzoloh deliveres babies in about 80% of full trauma calls (preg related calls). If anything, a woman will be greatful as opposed to embarrased to the point where she’d be affected forever. As mentioned by PBA, she shouldnt be using hatzoloh in the first place (unless a real emergency came up). The fact that she had to call should make her embarassed. And yes, i’m a woman who has had children and will have another real soon, iy”h. Be responsible and get to the hospital on time.
superme: as i mentioned above, i’m a woman and have had children. I too believe that popa_bar_abba and Health are correct in their opinions about women calling hatzoloh/EMS for childbirth.
Ctrl Alt Del: lol! Although most of the time it comes across that popa_bar_abba and Health are extreme, I have to agree with them here. If you would know the amount of calls that could be given first aid at home and then driven to the hospital without having to call hatzoloh or EMS, you would agree with them too. When my husband comes home on a friday night way after everyone already finished their seudah, and makes a comment about how the call he went on was a frequent flyer who calls hatzoloh over non emergent reasons, it makes me very upset. I’m glad he doesnt go into details or mention names, otherwise i’d really lose the schar i might be getting for him going on calls…
FIA: +1!
rebdoniel: “professional male doing his duties is not a situation of pritzus. There is nothing sexual about delivering a baby, unless people’s mistaken ideas make it out to be that way.” +1!
About a month ago I had a medical emergency and needed to be taken into the hospital. I had male Hatzala members taking me there, and a male physician in the hospital. At the time I didn’t let myself care because I knew my health comes first. I would have wanted female for both though. Yes, I was grateful for Hatzalas help. I would have appreciated a female member even more. PBA- my father would have driven me in, but traffic where I live is so horrendous the only way to get to the hospital in under a half hour is with sirens.
miritchka – I am surprised to hear you say that. Do you know how many women don’t go into labor long enough to get to the hospital? Why would you call it irresponsible? Many of my labors started with heavy labor 5 minutes apart and rushing to the hospital still only gave me 10 minutes. I have several friends who had the same thing happen who delivered in street clothes or at home. It is not about responsibility and it is not something to be embarrassed about. A short labor is a bracha, not a busha.
The time I got to the hospital before my doctor I had a whole group of people rushing in to check on me (instead of the normal one or two) and I found it very uncomfortable. People have very different sensitivity levels toward tznius.
Like Gamanit said, in time of medical need it is more important to get care from whomever can deliver it, but in non-life threatening situations I certainly would prefer a woman. I don’t think it in ANY way to be pritzus, I just find it extremely uncomfortable.
rebdoniel -“I’ve never read any teshuva advocating for the exclusive use of male Ob/Gyns. We’re not Muslim fanatics. We believe “Ve Chai Bahem.””
Excuse me – you obviously didn’t read my posts. I differentiated between Doctors and EMT’s. A Doc you need to have a good relationship with – this can affect the mother’s and baby’s health. So it would be Sakana Nefoshos to use s/o that the pt. isn’t comfortable with. So they can use Male providers. While if a male EMT happens to be on an OB call -yes they are allowed to render care, but if there can be a female instead -why isn’t it preferable to use a female?
“All EMT’s are more than capable of delivering babies. It’s an important part of their training.”
And it seems that the EMT’s of EN have more training in Ob than regular EMT’s.
Syag Lchochma: I apologize if i offended you. The point i was trying to make was that each woman knows her body and should make sure they get to the hospital and not wait it out. As mentioned in a previous post, being sent home from teh hospital means that your body isnt ready. If someone took all the steps necessary to make it to the hospital on time yet still finds that they cannot mae it, there is no question that they should call for help. I have a close friend who every time she goes to the dr. by her 38th or 39th week, the dr. sends her straight to the hospital. She doesnt even know that she’s in labor until she’s ready to push. Every case is different. Every woman is different. I know that as soon as i reach my 9th month, i arrange to have my children picked up from school or bus stops by neighbors or family and pack a bag for each child that my husband or parents can pick up from my house for the night or day or however long they ofer to keep my child for. I have car service on redial before shabbos and money for the car service prepared in my bag too. I keep my bag in our car only removing it for shabbos. I know i’m doing my part and daven that all goes smoothly.
Again, i apologize if i offended you or anyone else.
2scents -“Interesting that most of your debates for some reason turn personal, for this reason I have decided not to respond to your posts, even though in this topic I am the one in the know and you are clearly not!”
Funny, if you posted this at the Git-go – I might say perhaps there is some truth to it, but you gave me some logical arguments in this topic at the beginning which I refuted. So I tend to believe that you have nothing logical that states Hatzolah shouldn’t have women respond to Ob calls – so you resort to “I am the one in the know and you are clearly not!” The implication is that I don’t know what I’m talking about because you are on Hatzolah and I’m not. This might be true about my knowing everything about Hatzolah, but if the reason that Hatzolah had was Ousgehalten based on some Poisek’s Psak -you would shout this from the rooftops. So the fact that you’re resorting to say -you don’t like responding to me -tells me you/they don’t have a good reason why they aren’t taking on women for these types of calls.
Ctrl Alt Del -“Actually neither,This topic interests me because I am a healthcare provider and things that effect or impact the delivery of care interest me. These topics also happen to attract you. Only your replies to hard questions and issues seems to be the spaghetti approach. When you want to know if spaghetti is truly done al-dente, you throw a single one against the wall. If it sticks its done. If it falls, you cook the rest a little longer and test agin in a minute or so.
Now, after people call you out on your responses or they disagree with you, you resort to flinging another noodle. And then another. And then another. And then the accusations and name calling. Its a pattern. We’re all used to it by now. (At least some of us are) Its amusing (at least to me). So I sit back and I watch the fireworks and I make a small quip on how this entire thread is following a predictable track.”
If your theory was true then there would be No logic in any of my posts. And if you say -“Well there isn’t” -then you should refute my logic with your logic. Since you didn’t do that and all you did was attack me personally this shows that logically I’m not wrong. And you had some alterior motive(s) to put me down because you had the chance.
I will repeat something that I already wrote, as an active H Member, there is no tznius issue at all, the providers and the patient have other things at mind when there is true emergency.
Health,
“And it seems that the EMT’s of EN have more training in Ob than regular EMT’s.”
Care to explain?
Syag,
This is not common, most women have enough time to get to the hospital.
miritchka
“my husband is one of the few members that actually keep to the rule of not discussing anything about a call he goes on”
Actually this is what most member’s do, discussing the call can be illegal and in most organizations is enough cause to be thrown out.
IMO, the only time when females should be needed is when a women needs a 12 lead done, since her chest has to be exposed.
However, if someone is complaining of chest pain, time should not be wasted, time is muscle.
Delivering a baby with EMTs around might not be comfortable a pleasant experience. however I cannot see how having women do the delivery any better. in fact the only real thing that will calm the patient is knowing that the techs are well trained and experienced.
miritchka – thank you for being so kind, I wasn’t offended, just surprised. I know of so many people it has happened to and I felt bad for people to be thinking of these women as irresponsible. I remember one time needing to rush to the hospital on almost no notice in the middle of the night on Shabbos and by the time I woke my husband up, convinced him that a cab was not an option and waited for him to get dressed, we were almost too late. (The joys of motherhood)
2scents – you are right, it is not common, but it is not a rare occurance by any means and saying that it indicates a lack of responsibility was not always the case. I didn’t mean to blow it up, I just meant to clarify that it wasn’t a fair statement.
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