Hasn't gotten a date

No dates out-of-town? I have plenty out-of-town friends dating and many married. Does she live in Antarctica?

Living out of town has a few drawbacks this could be included in that list (along with lack of pizza options).

You listed that “She is pretty, went to a good seminary, dresses well, attends shiurim, and works in a frum office.”

Is she doing her histadlus? Meeting with shadchanim, going to events, (and here’s the big thing) willing to travel?

Its tough in shidduchim wherever a person is, but I think like with everything in life you get out what you put in, the more effort the more success.

#I’m an out of town girl, BH I don’t have a problem getting dates. It’s about going out of your comfort zone, and calling people, emialing people, joining shadchan websites…

Oyoyoy- The reason they say “No” is because they think there is something better. Why? Because a lot of girls are spoiled, especially here in America!

You’re missing the point. The reason they should give it another chance is to get a better picture of the boy before judging anything, it’s not like they’re swimming in names.

“joining shadchan websites”

I was living in New York City but my wife was living “Out of town” when she contacted me through one of the frum dating websites. Baruch HaShem we are coming up on ten years of marriage soon.

Another piece of advice. Look as good as you can, in general, and make sure you have a really good and recent picture both on your Shidduch resume and dating website, if youre on. I hate to tell it like it is, but girls’ looks/picture is more important than everything else combined. It is what it is.

This advice doesnt hurt boys either.

RY23 – A boy also has the same right.

Though I’m not sure how this Ralbag fits with what he wrote in Parshas Lech Lecha to explain why Sarah and Rachel gave their ????? to their husbands:

??? ????? ?????? ??? ???? ???? ???? ???? ????? ?????? ???? ???? ?????? ??????? ??? ??? ????? ???? ??? ??? ???? ?????? ???? ???? ???? ???? ??? ???? ????? ????? ??? ??? ?? ????? ??? ??? ??? ??? ?? ???? ?? ??? ????? ????? ??? ??? ??? ???? ????? ??????? ??? ????? ?? ???? ?????? ???? ??? ?????? ????? ?????? ???????? ????????? ???? ????? ??? ??? ???? ??? ??? ???? ????? ??????? ??? ??? ??? ???? ?????? ??? ?? ???? ????? ????? ??? ??????? ?? ??? ??????? ?? ???? ?????? ?????? ???? ???? ??? ?? ????? ????? ???? ?? ??? ?????? ????? ??????? ?? ??? ?? ????? ?? ??? ???

And which he reiterated in Parshas Vayeitzei:

???? ????? ???? ??? ??? ?? ????? ??? ????? ?? ????? ????

Many a young woman will come to New York for dating. Does your friend object to doing that?

Patur Aval Assur, would you please at least loosely translate to English, what you posted above in Hebrew? Thanks.

Medium Size Shadchan:

(This is something between a translation and a summary.)

The Radak:

Question: Why would Tzadikim, whose intentions of marriage are to progenate, seek beautiful women? Yaakov chose Rachel because she was beautiful, and was upset at Lavan for giving him Leah, because Leah was less beautiful. Why would he do this?

Answer 1: In order to increase their progeny, they wanted to arouse their desire, hence they would choose beautiful women.

Answer 2: They wanted their children to be beautiful and to look like them.

Answer 3: Having her form in front of him will gladden him and man is supposed to be happy in his world and with the portion that H’ gives him. H’ provides the righteous with beautiful women as he did for our forefathers and other righteous people, so that they should be happy with their lot and have kids like themselves.

The second Ralbag:

The tenth lesson is that a man should choose a woman who is complete of form, as his progeny from her will be healthier and fuller. This is why Yaakov did not choose Leah who was teary-eyed which is a malady, and instead chose Rachel who was beautiful. Additionally, this would allow him to channel his desire towards her and not to think of other women.

DY- I am very well aware of that. BUT if you get down to the actual detail about what you learn in school- that’s pretty much it. At least in typical bais Yaakovs where they don’t teach gemara. That’s pretty much all a girl learns is the HALACHIC reasoning- there are lots of obvious reasons- this is just the one that tends to be taught is halacha.

*someone 😛

I am 22 and I am an out of town girl. I went to Brooklyn for a couple of months and I did get more dates but I found it harder to meet someone serious and the shadchanim are busier! so I moved back home where I get fewer dates but the shadchanim suggest more serious boys. I think that the key to out of town dating is to work with shadchanim and be on dating websites. You probably aren’t going to bump into “the one” at the one pizza place in 20 miles, but you might 🙂

PAA- that took guts. kinda scary how mechavein i was. where are those?

If the latter, notice how there is no translation provided for the third Ralbag. And it’s not because I didn’t provide it, if you get what I mean.

http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/things-that-are-ok-to-say-in-hebrew-but-not-in-english

To address a tangential discussion:

bygirl93 said:

Correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t the whole point of marriage for boy’s so that they can fulfill the mitzvah of Piru’urivu? Pretty sure that that mitzvah doesn’t apply to girls.

DaasYochid said:

Bygirl93, that is not the only reason to get married.

bygirl93 said:

DY- I am very well aware of that. BUT if you get down to the actual detail about what you learn in school- that’s pretty much it. At least in typical bais Yaakovs where they don’t teach gemara. That’s pretty much all a girl learns is the HALACHIC reasoning- there are lots of obvious reasons- this is just the one that tends to be taught is halacha.

DaasYochid said:

Well, you wanted someine to correct you if you were wrong..

Health said:

BYgirl 93- What BY school did you learn Halacha reasoning in? The Halacha is both men & women Have to get married!

There are three potential reasons why a girl would have to get married:

1) ??? ????

2) ???? ????

3) ???

It’s a machlokes Tannaim in Yevamos 65b whether a woman is chayev in ??? ????. The halacha follows the Tanna Kamma that she is not obligated.

Tosafos in Gittin 41b ?”? ?? holds that a woman is obligated in ???, but this position is not accepted by the codifiers of halacha.

Which leaves the issue of ???. The Rambam in Hilchos Ishus 15:16 writes:

??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ????.

The Tur does not mention this, and the Rema in Even Ha’ezer 1:13 writes:

??”? ?”? ??? ????? ??? ??? ???? ????

Now this is an interesting lashon. It doesn’t say that it’s assur to not marry, nor does it say that she is obligated to marry. It says that she shouldn’t be without a husband. This is significant as we shall see.

Various commentators point out that it’s a stirah in the Rambam. We just quoted him as saying ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???? yet in Issurei Biah 21:26 he writes:

????? ???? ??? ???? ????? ?? ???? ?????

which clearly implies that she never has to get married under any circumstances. The various commentators suggest various answers.

A few acharonim suggest that the Rambam in Issurei Biah is talking about a place where there would be no chashad, e.g. if there are no men in that place.

The ???? ??? quotes this suggestion and says ???? ??? ????. He then gives two answers:

1) ????? ???? ???? ???? ????? ???? ???? ?????? ??? ????? ????? ?????? ?????? ?????? ???? ????? ???? ????? ???? ???? ???? ??? ??? ???? ?????? ???? ??? ???? ??? ??? ???? ???? ?????

2) ???? ???? ???? ????? ????? ????? ??? ??? ???? ???? ??????? ?????? ???? ?? ???? ?? ???? ?? ???? ???? ??? ???? ???”?

The ??? ???? quotes an answer that min hadin a woman does not have to get married at all and “??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ????” is an eitzah tovah.

So to conclude, there are definitely grounds to argue that a woman is not obligated to get married. DaasYochid, the thing that bygirl93 said “correct me if I’m wrong” on was ??? ????, so even if you are right that there is a different obligation, bygirl93 was still correct and therefore you were not actually correcting her for being wrong. However, the lashon you used was “that is not the only reason to get married” which does not necessarily indicate that you think that there is an obligation to get married, but merely a reason to get married. But Health explicitly stated that there is an obligation, so this post is primarily a response to him, pointing out that it’s not so pashut.

Even if there is no obligation for her to get married, she still gets a mitzvah of helping the man fulfill his mitzvah. As the ??? ???? writes:

???”? ???? ???? ????? ??? ???? ?”? ?? ?? ???? ??? ??? ??? ???? ?????

I would say that for me, I also live out of town and do not really get the opportunity to go to ny. I have gotten 20+ suggestions over the past year. I ended up getting two phone dates with one person out of it. I said no to some guys and some guys said no to me. I think that the key thing is that you need to network. Also, every time that you go to another city, even if it is a smaller community- like St. Louis or Memphis, to try to ask about meeting at least one shadchan on your trip.

“I ended up getting two phone dates with one person out of it.”

Why would you want to date someone who is out of it?

PAA said, “Tosafos in Gittin 41b ?”? ?? holds that a woman is obligated in ???, but this position is not accepted by the codifiers of halacha.”

PAA, can you please cite where it’s (not) mentioned in the Tur, Sh”Ar, Kitzur, Aruch Hashulchan, etc.

PAA,

Thank you !

MDG:

You’re Welcome.