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What exactly is a “harry”??
A Prince of England.
A fictional wizard?
got this from wikipedia:
Harry is a derogatory term in Norwegian, meaning unsophisticated, bad taste or vulgar. The term dates back to the early 20th century, when English given names like Harry were popular among working-class people particularly in the east end of Oslo. …
In our parents’ generation, the most common legal name given for Chaim.
Cf Clint Eastwood’s ouvre.
(I think that anyone who knows what ouvre means may have other grounds for being accused of being a Harry or Harriet.)
I believe in yeshivish parlance “Harry” is a derogatory term for a ba’al teshuva.
cantoresq, you seem to be more expert as “derogatory yeshivish parlance” than the yeshivish community themselves!
Jospeh, what can I tell you, I read alot. I recall seeing that definition of the term in some publication. I’d be happy ot hear I’m wrong in this instance and that therte is no denigration of ba’alei teshuva in the yeshivish velt.
Actually, I thought a “Harry” was someone who was just generally clueless. Not about any specific thing, just someone who doesn’t get things.
I’ve also heard it used to refer to people who are over-the-top Yeshivish. I guess it replaced the term “greasy”.
cantoresq, I am pleased to inform you that you are wrong. I think the vast majority of the yeshivishe velt, myself included, never knew this term to refer to anything derogatory (or otherwise for that matter.) In fact, as hard as I try, I am having difficulty to recalling ANY derogatory vernacular specific for use within the yeshivishe velt.
And regarding Baale Teshuvas in general, all my life I’ve only heard the most laudatory praise for them. Certainly nothing derogatory.
Joseph, how easy is it for a ba’al teshuva to be m’shadeich with a well known respected yeshivish family? Why do shadchanim ask a single person is s/he is a ba’al teshuva? How easy is it for a ba’al teshuva to get his child into a well established “premier” cheder or yeshiva k’tana? I wonder if the praise of which you speak is actually reflective of true attitudes.
def: Harry: A MO FFB who “frummed out” in E”Y, went to YU (possibly college yeshiva such as Landers or Baltimore) to make parents happy. Somewhat non-understanding of the Yeshiva world, but more “frum” and thought out than them since they chose to be “Charaidi”, vs. being born into it.
cantoresq, shaduchim is a whole parsha upon itself. Let me rephrase your question: how easy is it for a regular yeshivishe Joe to be m’shadeich with a well known respected yeshivish family? You cannot extrapolate shiduchim with general attitudes. Every person has their own unique shidduch requirements. As Yeshivish as I may be, I don’t expect to be m’shadeich with a Rebbishe family. And nor do I consider that discriminatory or unfair. Some people will not, for example, be m’shadeich with a Ger because they may be afraid of a relapse. This is a far cry from saying that demonstrates such a person denigrates Geirim or holds any less of them.
I’m not in the chinuch business, but I do know that MANY Baalei Teshuvos are in Chaim Berlin, Torah V’daas, Satmar and many other well established “premier” cheder or yeshiva k’tanas. (Truthfully, I don’t buy into these silly definitions of “premier” altogether.) And yes, what I tell you IS reflective of true attitudes. The problem is false preconceptions outsiders have and assumptions they incorrectly make about the community.
Joseph I’ll defer to your better knowledge on this one. As a relative outsider to the day to day goings on in the chareidi world, there is no way for me to know better than you.
ouvre means to be? or to have? I think it’s a french verb or something? I am NOT a Harry according to any of the above definitions but took 3 years of French in High School so I will use my relative anonymity to protect my embarressment for being totally clueless about this.
BTW, I always thought a “Harry” is someone who is a little bit clueless or “chapless” about social norms in the yeshivish world (can be a ffb), usually Really ameRican. (Stress the r’s).
Isn’t he the guy that met Sally?
a harry is someone who either is from baltimore or wears a blue shirt with tzitzis out
I’ve heard my boys use the term Harry but can’t really define it for me. I think you are right though, Intellegent.
Joseph, if you’ve never heard any derogetory terms in your yeshiva, you’re yeshiva was amazing and unusual or you are such an ehrilch person that no one used such language around you.
just me, thank you. although I know other people from other Yeshivos with similar experiences. So I don’t think it is all that unusual.
joseph just one thing, you have only heard praises od baalei teshuva? in my seminary my menahel gave a 2hr shiur on how baalei teshiva do things incorectly and how we cant trust them and so on, so what world are you living in? the same one that thinks drugs, rape, affairs and eating disorders dont happen in the frum community? m sorry if this came off as rude but unfortunatley baalei teshiva dont have the respect they should
teenager, apparently we live in different circles. In my Yeshivisha circles as I’ve said, we never heard anything but the most lofty praises for Baalei Teshuvos.
A “Harry” is someone, not necessarily a Baal Teshuva, who doesn’t fit the yeshiva bochur culture, defined by a white shirt, tzitzis out, black hat, yeshivish accent (“oy instead of “o”), and the ability to speak “yeshivish”, a jargon of English, Mishnaic Hebrew in an Ashkenazic accent, Babylonian Aramaic, and Yiddish. This a term popular especially in non-mussar yeshivas, where people are defined by outward appearances instead of their devotion to Hashem.
Joseph, both you and teenager might be correct. Prejudice and discrimination need not be overt, and indeed its mroe subtle form is often as hurtful as its blatant counterpart. The same people who lavish crocodile praise upon Baalei teshuva may at the same discriminate against them. Then again those roshei yeshiva who instruct their talmidim that they cannot learn mesorah from ba’alei teshuva just might be the same people who stand in their presence and are the most welcoming of ba’alei teshuva into our midst. You just never know.
cantoresq, that may be a theoretical possibility but it would require insincerity. And that may, or may not, exist somewhere someplace. But prevalent it is not, as I’ve always sensed sincerity in my dealings with friends and Rebbeim in this inyan. Nor is my experience unusual.
Teenager, that’s really sad. Especially since many baalei and baalos teshuva are much better versed in halacha than I am – my Bais Yaakov expected us to learn through osmosis. The way it should be true, but not good enough.
I understand BT’s may not have a mesora for many minhagim and nuances, but that teacher was simply incorrect.
The Harry is typically someone who did not grow up attending yeshivish institutions and comes from an MO background, but later in life attempts – ususally very sincerely – to mimic the ways of the native yeshivish in dress, speech and mannerisms. The Harry is usually somewhat successful in blending in with the yeshivishers, but often stands out because he can’t get it 100% right(usually you can tell by the odd-looking perch of the ill-fitting hat or the white socks with dress pants/shoes). The Harry is not to be confused with a BT, which is an entirely different species. Women and girls cannot be Harrys. The Harry is generally accepted by the yeshivish community, and will integrate fully in some cases. However, the Harry often takes things too far, like shushing others in shul or stopping people from speaking lashon hara in the middle of a geshmake conversation. This is not appreciated by the native yeshivishers, and hence the Harry is often excluded or derided by them, for being such a Harry.
“ouvre means to be? or to have? I think it’s a french verb or something?”
ouvre- to open
etre- to be
avoir- to have
I thought harry was the plural form for the word mountains in hebrew.
what happened to this “joseph”
seems like an old joke…
i dont think anyone really knows what a harry is. its like one of those words people say with such assurance that u just go “yeah, i know right???”
In my circles “Harry” refers to someone from out of town that thinks it’s still 1975
The only Harry I know is an orphan wizard who attended Hogwarts….. 🙂
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