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I’m sure Sam didn’t mean them…
As DY pointed out, it would have been nothing about them. Anyway, I’m done with this thread.
Sam 2 – “Of course R’ Moshe was against all prenups. The only prenups that existed in his time told you to go to Conservative Batei Din.”
If you believe in prenups, you should go to a Conservative Bais Din. MO’s are more & more sounding like Conservative Jews!
From experience…..a mentsch would honor the kesuba or a fair verbal agreement….the other types won’t honor anything,written,or not.
Do you realize that Rav Ovadia Yosef and Rav Zalman Nechemia Goldberg both approve of the prenup. They are not small Rabbanim or MO. Just accept the fact that there is a machloket and please stop pretending like your opinion is the only valid one.
Jazar – “Do you realize that Rav Ovadia Yosef and Rav Zalman Nechemia Goldberg both approve of the prenup. They are not small Rabbanim or MO. Just accept the fact that there is a machloket and please stop pretending like your opinion is the only valid one.”
From page 1:
“Rabbi Gedalia Dov Shwartz is definitely MO. You seem to assume that just because he is a talmid chochom and a well regarded posek, he must not be MO”
Practically No Litvish or Chassidish Rabbis believe in prenups!
So if you’re in this classification, there is No argument.
Rabbi Gedalia Dov Shwartz and Rav Zalman Nechemia Goldberg are two different people the former lives in chicago and can be argued is MO but the latter is a well respected dayan in Israel and I dont believe is MO.
I actually am sephardi but nevertheless my point is how can you call those who believe in prenup to be conservative. Did all ur big ashkenazi and chassidic rabbanim consider rav ovadia to be conservative because he believed in prenups or heter mechira? they realized that there is a machloket in the matter and accepted Rav Ovadia’s right to have his own opinion so why cant you accept the right for other big rabbanim to have their own opinion too.
The second beit hamikdash was destroyed because everyone held that only their opinion was correct. I hope you change your approach to these different halachik and hashkafic issues and realize that legitimate poskim disagree with you BUT THAT IS OKAY!!!!
Jazar – “I hope you change your approach to these different halachik and hashkafic issues and realize that legitimate poskim disagree with you BUT THAT IS OKAY!!!!”
All I wrote was “Practically No Litvish or Chassidish Rabbis believe in prenups!
So if you’re in this classification, there is No argument.”
So if you’re Sefardi, you should listen to your Rabbi. If not, my quote above applies!
eclipse – “From experience…..a mentsch would honor the kesuba or a fair verbal agreement….the other types won’t honor anything,written,or not.”
The reason some men don’t honor the agreement, is because the wife doesn’t honor it in the first place! Eg. not sending the kids for his parenting time.
Health, how do you define “almost” and to which of various pre-nups are you referring?
Health This is what you said “If you believe in prenups, you should go to a Conservative Bais Din. MO’s are more & more sounding like Conservative Jews!”
You made it sound like prenups are a made up idea by conservatives not actually a valid document according to sephardim. I hope you use your words more carefully from now on if you dont actually believe what you yourself wrote.
Jazar – “You made it sound like prenups are a made up idea by conservatives not actually a valid document according to sephardim”
FYI – This website is basically for Yeshiva people – so my comments are towards them! So I do use my words carefully.
Is Health insinuating that “Yeshiva” people are, by definition, not Sefardi? You might want to clarify that, Health.
Yeshivishe Sephardim (and non-Yeshivish Sephardim as well) rarely use any type of form of a so-called halachic prenup in their marriages. If you ask 100 young (or old) Yeshivish Sepahrdic couples, you’ll probably not find even one who used it.
With all due respect, the claim that Reb Moshe opposed ALL prenups is anachronistic.
R. Wilig’s prenup came out a few years after Rav Moshe was niftar, so it’s hard to know how he would’ve felt about it. Even given his opposition to all prenups, it’s not muchrach that he’d oppose this one b/c the prenups in his day were all from Conservative ‘batei din.’ To prove that he’d disapprove, you have to show that the newer prenup is the same thing as the conservative ones halachically and makes the same mistakes. I wish Rav Moshe was around back then….
It depends why he was against them.
Rav Dovid said Rav Moshe was opposed to the implementation of a halachic prenup of the type that is currently being promulgated. Opposed both halachicly and hashkafically, Rav Dovid said in the name of Rav Moshe.
Health: unacceptable, you are right,but that is not the fine print exception in the kesuba. When I think of some of the leaders in my case Yiftach comes to mind…shecht a woman and think its a mitzvah.
Eclipse -“Health: unacceptable, you are right,but that is not the fine print exception in the kesuba. When I think of some of the leaders in my case Yiftach comes to mind…shecht a woman and think its a mitzvah”
People don’t know – there are a lot of exceptions to a Kesubah. That’s why we need Rabbonim. I feel bad that you weren’t exposed to the Ehrlich ones!
BH I know a ton of ehrliche leaders now,but to be honest I used to think more were. At least we stick with the true-blue people and our lives are enriched by them.
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