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Doesn’t that make them very low in the Mesora totem pole?
The targum on בן סורר ומורה says סטי ומרי satu umare. St. Mary, Satmar
Satmar used to be ashkanaz under Rav Yehuda Gruenwald.
Reb Eliezer: Your targum is a myth. The town is named after a family by the name Szatmar.
Satmar’s mesora dates from the Yismach Moshe and much earlier.
“Your targum is a myth”
The targum is real
Devarim 21:18
אֲרֵי יְהֵי לִגְבַר בַּר סָטֵי וּמָרֵיThe remez to Mordechai in the Torah is based on targum, similarly the remez to Satmar is there as well
That said theEnglish connection is in fact a myth
“Satmar’s mesira dates from…”
lol!YA: While he started calling himself the Rebbe of Satmar it was a continuation of the sigheter chassidim.
The Rabbonim Hageonim of the Teitelbaum Family descend from Reb Moshe of Ujhel. The ישמח משה. He was a ben dor of the Gaon and the AR. The Satmar Rav was in Kruli before Satmar. Rav Hutner z”l held from the SR a velt. That backdates the מסורה quite a bit.
The Yismadh Moshe was not from Satmar but Ujhely.
The father of the Satmar Rebbe was the Sighet Rebbe, not the Satmar Rebbe
The Anti-Zionism of the Satmar Rebbe comes from Munkatch
The name actually means big city or villiage in Romanian.
Unkelos as printed in the Mikraos Gedolos has בּר סטי וּמָרוֹד
https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=9617&st=&pgnum=276
The Artscroll Mikraos Gedolos has morei and the DBS whereas the Bar Ilan has morad. I checked an old sefer for all chumoshium published 1928 by Chorav in Berlin has morei in it. Many others have also morei in it.
Does anyone believe Rav Yolish’s shitah on Tzionim and living and cooperating with the Medinah would be any different today than when he first articulated his views 70* years ago??
Why would he change his shita? His shita is that eretz yisrael belongs to the goyim and not to the yidden during golus and we therefore have to give it back
Satu Mare is an old important city in Transylvania, Romania but cannot be compared to the more cosmopolitan Hungarian Budapest where even in the ’40s, the trains ran on time and punctual.
Didn’t the Baal Shem Tov live around the same time as Ben Franklin? Chassidus in general is not really an ancient phenomenon
@Billywee
It doesn’t matter what the name means in Romanian, because it is from an old Hungarian name hundreds of years before there was a Romania.More than 1000 years ago it was known as castrum Zotmar (Zotmar’s fort), a defensive position named for a prominent individual or family. Castrum has the same Latin root as Castle, a fortified building used for defense.
@CTLawyer “hundreds of years before there was a Romania”
Don’t confuse the State of Romania (late 1800’s) with Romanian-speaking areas. According to your logic, Germany and Italy are also younger than the USA.Satmar,I believe, was in Hungary for many hundreds of years prior to World War ONE.
YA: Define ancient mesorsa please.The whole movement we know as chasiddus starts with the Baal Shem Tov and is what 300 years old??
The Satmar Rebbe who surived the war did not change his mind, but Im sure that some who were anti-zionists before the war had they survived would have changed their mind given that the survivors could no longer live in Europe.
The places that were forbidden in 1939 were the places that jews had to move to after the war, So any Rav who was opposed to going to America or Israel in 1939 could not have held that position in 1945
Look up the book Kehilos Hungaria under Satmar Nemeti Page 279 says that it was first inhabited by Jews in 1820. The Jews were chased out in 1715.
Going back to the originalpost, WHO CARES about their temporal position on the so called “Totem Pole” of mesorah. If moisiach shows up tomorrow and he is from a chassidus that dates back 1755, will we tell him we cannot follow all his instructions since we hold by another Rebbelah whose yichus dates from the late 1600s??
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