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Someone suggested a way to protect a baby boy’s neshama from sin early on.
It includes covering the baby’s crib with a kol ha’ne’arum tallis.
Not having any nurses.
And have the baby listen to Duvid Chaim every day.
Assuming this person is serious, is a female nurse a threat to a baby’s neshama?
Would he have a more difficult time guarding his eyes as an adult if he had a nurse take care of him once in a while?
And about covering the crib with a tallis…
How do you know he’s okay and still breathing?
Thank you 🙂
Always check for sources. Believing in random unproven Sgulos may be an Issur D’oraysa, as per the Rambam.
Doing anything dangerous is an Issur D’oraysa as well. Taking risks to one’s or one’s charges’ lives are unacceptable in Judaism.
As far as nurses, as long as they are dressed properly (as is your responsibility as a Jewish mother), why would they pose an issue to his neshama?
Perhaps this person was advocating shemiras eynayim even for babies, hence avoiding wet nurses other than his own mother (or advocating bottle feeding altogether?) and covering up his crib lest he see the outside world or preventing him from hearing certain types of music. This sounds pretty extreme from a halachic point of view. Afterall, in Judaism, babies are born with pure neshamos and do not sin. Children are considered pure and sinless and are not held accountable until bar/bas mitzva. Halacha dictates at what age boys and girls are obligated in following the laws of tznius.
Never ever cover up the baby’s crib with anything. segulos are not meant to promote SIDS.
I’m assuming the issue is that the nurse may not be dressed tzniusly.
My feeling is that the issue is not so much about whether or not he will have a hard time guarding his eyes later on, but about the fact that everything one sees even as a baby is stored in his mind on some level.
It sounds like a good idea to me in theory IF the person in question is really holding by this. You would only be holding by this if you thought of it yourself because the idea of your baby seeing someone untzniusly dressed repelled you and because you yourself are super-careful about tznius.
If neither of those things are the case, I would be concerned that this comes from an unhealthy place.
I don’t know anything about the Tallis issue. And who is Duvid Chaim? I heard of Chaim Dovid and Chaim Yisroel, but not Duvid Chaim.
LB, is there any superstition that you don’t accept?
Only if you dress his baby sister in a burka, Lightb.
Are you by any chance familiar with the expression-
“shtuyot b’mitz agvaniot” ?
(In case not, you’re quoting some rather odd misguided “someone”s lately. What’s going on? You seem to have missed entirely what I said to you about Ahavas Yisrael in a different thread. Very commendable of you to choose to love everyone. Not such a great idea to be as indiscriminate in choosing whom to learn from.)
*** Please, like everyone else said, BE CAREFUL with blankets and anything else you put near a little baby’s crib or bassinet!
Lesschumras – that is neither nice nor fair. There are many things that we do that have a basis in halacha or minhag that sound crazy. How should LB know which things are legitimate and which aren’t?
And I don’t think this had anything to do with superstition. My understanding was that it was meant as a practical suggestion for keeping shmiras ha’ayin. If you were going to make that comment, this was not the place for it.
lightbrite,
Someone suggested a way to protect a baby boy’s neshama from sin early on.
Hooray for anonymous sources! “Someone” suggested to me that tying chicken leg quarters to my pants pockets is a good way to repel dogs.
It includes covering the baby’s crib with a kol ha’ne’arum tallis.
What’s the difference between a “kol hanearim tallis” and a regular tallis?
Not having any nurses.
Huh?
And have the baby listen to Duvid Chaim every day.
Who is Duvid Chaim?
Assuming this person is serious
I don’t. I think you got BT trolled.
is a female nurse a threat to a baby’s neshama?
No.
Would he have a more difficult time guarding his eyes as an adult if he had a nurse take care of him once in a while?
No.
And about covering the crib with a tallis…
How do you know he’s okay and still breathing?
Exactly. And what about dirty diapers?
David Hamelech, obviously did not think anything is wrong with nursing.
People generally no longer hire wet nurses for their babies, so a female nurse is not a problem anymore.
LB, even if you assume that this person is serious, what other restrictions is he going to suggest employing when the baby is old enough to move around, go outside, etc. Should we blindfold our children when they go outside? Unfortunately we do not live in a pure society and just going to the main intersection down the street if you live in chutz la’aretz, or going to the center of town even if you live in Yerushalayim, you can be exposed to things many people would prefer they weren’t, even just going on a bus. This is why many people prefer to live in frum neighborhoods and send their children to school on private transportation, to avoid these kinds of things. I am not sure that we are able to keep to a level of purity that is suggested by some of the restrictions you mention. Listening to any particular person, unless that person is a recognized godol, should not be a requirement. What does this Duvid Chaim say? How did his name come to be mentioned in the shiur? I do not think it is a matter of overlooking things, but there are some common sense guidelines that should be employed to strain out the things that might be on the fringe. You should concentrate on getting the main things, Shabbos, Kashrus, Tznius, and make sure that you get the hashkafa things from recognized rebbeim and Roshei Yeshiva, not just anybody who decides to record a shiur and put it on Torah Anytime (I am not saying there is anything wrong with that site, and I have no idea how shiurim get posted there).
Nechomah, I like how you put it down. So well written!
Thanks ZK 🙂
LB, did you ask this random person where he got this “mesora” from? I would definitely insist on pretty strong mekorot from random people to start worrying about these issues with my baby (aside from the fact that a new mother is usually so tired that she can hardly manage regular daily activities during the first few weeks after birth, much less such restrictions). Anyway, random online conversation aside from with the talmidei chochomim here in the CR should be entered into very cautiously. As a single woman, you could be a target for some unsavory people out there, even if they seem to be talking very lofty things. Just keep an eye out.
This person’s advice is dangerous and impractical.
Quoting “Duvid Chaim” from the internet, is just as authentic as quoting “Joseph from the internet”
LB – +1 (on the post from 6 hours ago).
btw, I think that next time you quote “someone”, it’s better if you give us an idea as to who the someone is (random person online vs. my LOR or a shiur on Torah Anytime,etc.) While these are all “someones” there is a difference between them.
But without a name of course.
(Not a full response to this thread…)
Duvid Chaim is a life coach/motivational speaker
who is associated with the website GuardYourEyes.
LB I am glad that you explained yourself and your questions. You are looking for truth, and I think since it would not be practical to run to a LOR with every single question that you have on what you hear/learn, it is good to use the CR as sounding board to know which questions are fit for the Rav. I also think that you are already picking up on what might not be legitimate/normative, and that is why you are asking about those particular things.
I always thought it was hard for BTs to give up their old lifetsyles and take on a Torahdik lifestyle. I never appreciated though until I met you, LB, just how hard it is to figure out what the new lifestyle should be! When I saw your question or something like it, I was able to put it within a context of whatever I have seen or learned in my frum life, and also compare it to other frum lifestyles I have been exposed to, and instinctively know whether this is normal to the general population or some specific group, or extreme or just plain wrong. For a BT, that is so much harder to do.
I also understand how important yeshivos/seminaries for BTs are- they provide the basic foundation of what is Torah-true hashkafa, halacha, and provide role models for normative frum living. The teachers know what to say, how much to say and when to say it, and I think I am learning now, even more importantly, what not to say. It is so much harder to get that grounding from a hodge-podge of shiurim, whether online or real, no matter who is giving the shiur.
LB, may you continue to grow and question and find your direction!
“I didn’t know that.” didn’t know what?
“Just felt weird outing the person in the CR who said it”
What do you mean? It came from someone in the CR? I thought you just said (or clearly implied) it came from the GuardYourEyes.
I’m lost.
I think it’s supposed to be a good website actually. And I think it is a very good idea to be careful about having nurses – I just think that you hae to make sure that is really something you are holding by and you are not taking on too much too fast.
Although, I’m not even sure what is meant by a nurse – a babysitter? a live-in? a wet-nurse (do they exist today?)? a nurse in the hospital?
Covering the crib with a Tallis is not a good idea, the baby might grab the strings and choke. I dont care who came up with it, it is still not a good idea. This is being a chassid Choteh
I am guessing a wet nurse comes from the olden days before baby formula when if the mother couldnt lactate, they needed someone else to feed the baby. Again this is a silly chumra because if the baby needs mothers milk for health reasons (Some Babies cannot take baby formula) its being a chassid Shoteh over the health of the baby
I have heard that on the day of a boy’s upsherin, some hold that he is not allowed to see any women who are untzniusly dressed, so they put a tallis over him when he is outside. They also hold that he can’t touch any females besides his mother (and maybe other relatives as well). I found this out when my friend’s son had his upsherin. She had promised me that I could cut a lock, but it turned out that I wasn’t allowed to.
Maybe that is where this idea came from.
I’m just wondering why covering a baby with a Tallis is any more dangerous than covering him with a blanket?
Its the strings on the Tallis that are the problem If there was no strings then it wouldnt be a problem, but it really wouldnt be a tallis either. It would basically be a blanket with black stripes
Maybe this is a dumb question, but why are the strings a problem? Are we afraid the baby will get strangled c”v, l”a? Are the strings on a Tallis long enough for that to be a realistic issue?
Compared to other objects that we allow/don’t allow near our babies, is it logical and consistent to consider a Tallis dangerous? (these are not rhetorical questions. I really am seriously asking. I don’t have any babies or tallises, so this is not a topic I’m so up on. Maybe the answers to these questions are obvious to most people, but they aren’t to me).
Im not sure exactly how long the strings are vs the size of the neck of the baby, however if the baby wraps enough of the string it can pull the main part of the tallis itself around the neck and choke the baby
I cant belive some chassid shoteh would even recommend such a foolish idea.
No normal person keeps a choking hazzard near a baby
PSA- it seems a lot of CRes are not up-to-date on current baby safety recommendations.
Nothing- emphasis- nothing- should be put inside a baby’s crib except the baby.
That means- no blankets, no pillows, no stuffed animals, no padded bumpers (this is a new one). The same would apply with draping these items over a crib, since they can easily fall or be pulled inside.
So Tallis is no worse or better than any blanket and it is quite dangerous to drape one over a crib!
To keep a baby warm, use a blanket sleeper or specially designed swaddling blanket that stays wrapped around the baby in place.
Today’s regulation standard cribs have slats that are close enough together so that baby’s head cannot fit thru, so there is no need for a bumper to prevent a baby’s head from getting stuck.
If you think that this advice is extreme, I can tell you about a child who is permanently disabled and institutionalized because someone draped a coat over her carriage and it fell inside and smothered her.
WTP – are these recommendations really recent? I never heard of these before! Certainly not the blankets. Thanks for the info.
Are most people you know makpid on this?
What if the Tallis were tied around the outside of the crib and the baby is a new-born infant who can’t possible grab it? Would you still consider that dangerous?
WTP is correct, I forgot about the Baby sleepers and not blankets. Blankets are only used when you are holding the baby not when they are sleeping by themselves.
Please stop trying to defend the idea of having a tallis with strings anywhere near a baby, It doesnt belong there under any circumstances. Its never safe. babies get into all sorts of trouble. You need to minimize the danger at all times.
I personally got rid of all wires in my house that were easily accessable. I got rid of lamps and had lights installed directly
Just because experts don’t recommend putting anything in the crib besides the baby doesn’t mean that all things are equal. A tallis is far more dangerous for a baby than a light blanket.
“Please stop trying to defend the idea of having a tallis with strings anywhere near a baby, It doesnt belong there under any circumstances. Its never safe. babies get into all sorts of trouble. You need to minimize the danger at all times.”
Chas v’shalom! I wasn’t defending it. That wasn’t my point at all. I just wanted to understand the issue. These concepts aren’t part of my life right now, so I have never really thought about them.
Anyhow, I asked someone about it, and apparently the Tipat Chalav says that you shouldn’t even put a blanket in the baby’s crib (as WTP said). It seems that the concern is SIDS, c”v, not strangling.
Some people use blankets anyhow (albeit reluctantly) because the baby is cold and needs a blanket, so they consider it necessary.
I suppose that reasoning wouldn’t apply to a Tallis (and even the blanket is controversial).
LU
In general I notice you give the more charedi views D’Af khan, but are unwilling to give the same to someone less charedi than you.
Just because someone is more frum and has an idea that sounds good on paper, doesnt mean its not foolish and dangerous. Foolishness and dangerous needs to be condemed just as much as an “Alternative wedding”
The recommendations are not all that new- the blanket one has been around for more than a decade for sure. The no bumper rule is a new one- I think the stores will stop selling those adorable crib sets- but when my oldest was a newborn, I already knew that is was risky and bought breathable mesh-like bumpers instead of the padded kind.
I believe it does have to do with smothering- a baby can end up with his face pushed into a padded bumper or pillow or stuffed animal and not be able to realize he cannot breathe and extricate himself.
Correct me if I am wrong, but I think that SIDS would be when a baby stops breathing for some unknown reason. Having a blanket obstruct his breathing Chas v’shalom is a known reason. Being overheated is a risk factor for SIDS though, so maybe that was the connection between blanket and SIDS.
So save the tallis for wrapping up the kids at his upsherin.
I know SIDS was caused by the baby stopping breating, I did think it was caused by the baby sleeping on its stomach. Babies ALWAYS need to be put to sleep on its back. A baby cannot be allowed to sleep on its stomach until it knows how to turn by itself.
Alot of things done in previous generations we have learned is very dangerous
ZD, the reasoning is that a baby sleeps more deeply on his stomach than on his back, so if he stops breathing, is less likely to arouse and start breathing again.
ZD – I’m sorry, but your comment makes no sense and has no relevance to anything going on this conversation. You are making false accusations about me based on nothing.
“Just because someone is more frum and has an idea that sounds good on paper, doesnt mean its not foolish and dangerous.”
Who said otherwise? In fact, it is quite clear from all my posts in this thread that I agree with that statement.
“In general I notice you give the more charedi views D’Af khan, but are unwilling to give the same to someone less charedi than you.”
Where in the world do you see that from anything in this thread???? If anything, you see the opposite.
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