Grocery that gets rid of all Chometz before Pesach

Dear Always,

In grocery the cost drives the price. These little groceries have dozens of costs that Costco does away with. Any grocery that reports a large net to gross ratio, will be instantly audited.

Smile
you are most welcome

“You only have a Mitzva to buy from a Yid if the Yid wants your business.”

The yid wants your business. Don’t blame tyour misplaced “chumra” on him He looks to his Rav for guidance and follows all the instructions his Rav gives him.
If thats not good enough for you as you said “The “machmirim” also have the option to choose where they want to shop.” this is true from a legal standpoint although perhaps not halachik.
you say “”However, there are some Yidden that do mind buying Chometz that was sold.””
There are all sorts of yidden some kep Shabbos some don’t
Its not too late to do teshuva become a real machmir without the quotes. buy from yidden

Coffee
Interestingly enough I saw yesterday that Shivti recently covered this in their chuburah pamphlets
I am referring to the aspect of buying from a jew and whether it is just a mitzvah or chiyuv
The question is relevant to all of us
In the pamphlet there are tshuvos on this.
I am not faulting the OP for his decision to buy in a goyish store. I do not force my wife to only buy jewish. She shops at Aldi’s etc. You can certainly ask me what my heter is.
I am faulting the OP for his reasoning. If he wants to argue it is more convenient, significantly cheaper etc. I cant argue with that
If he wants to argue it is a bigger mitzvah, well, that is false

Smile, thanks for clarifying your position. Let me propose a difference:

1) in case of price and quality, there are established halochos to what degree one should favor the Jewish store. And if the store owner is T’Ch or/and an Ehrliche Yid, I am sure people will push it further. Still, if I prfer to feed my kids fresh food, I’ll go where it is.

2) in your case of a chumra, you have a halachik balance between being machmir l’Hashem and being supportive of another Yid. As many say, as Hashem also wants you to support the Yid, the halachik decision is to favor the Yid v. a chumra that becomes simply inapplicable in this case. You literally have nothing to lose – the Yid is happy, and Hashem is happy. Why aren’t you!?

This is just a milder form of a chosid shoteh who would not touch a woman to save her from drowning. Evidently, Hashem wants him to touch her in this case, so he has nothing to be machmir about.

CA
.. then you reevlute your “chumra” to see if it makes sense
A chumra has to make sense
If I have a “chumra” I dont eat from a fridge that was running on Shabbos. I am very machmir on Lo sivaru eish I want the fridge powered down. Therefore I only buy refrigerated items from Goyim
You would most likely say that chumra was inappropriate, doesn’t make mush sense and is borderline Tzedoki in nature.

I can call it a chumra from today until tomorrow that doesn’t make it correct.
Using this “chumra” to then justify not buying from yidden or to justify baal taschis in throwing out perfectly kosher fine food makes it even worse

” This Chumra needs to be most carefully re-evaluated.”

Always !

I reevaluated, it is appropriate here

“For some reason, when it comes to other people’s even baseless Kulas … On the other hand when someone has a not even so baseless chumra…, ”
the question though is which is this thread an example of

Though I’m not sure what you mean by “live and let live”
I’m not stopping you frm doing whatever you want . I’m sharing my thoughts on the matter same as you.

I’m skeptical that the point of this thread was an honest to goodness quest to find such a store in Lakewood. (more than 2 months after Pesach nuch der tzi !) There are much more efficient ways to find that information , ask people in your shul, ask likeminded people who share this “chumra” ask your moreh hora’ah who presumably recommended you follow this “chumra” The point of this thread was to get people excited with an exciting topic . And I delivered I too find it exciting

Smiler- I guess the way I look at it, is that it is Ratzon HaShem to do business with other Jews. Now, there are heterim when it comes to price and quality which, depending on the situation, it’s perfectly fine to rely on… but one cannot say they are fulfilling ratzon Hashem by not doing business with the Jew. They have their own cheshbonos on at what point to choose quality and price, which is perfectly in line with halacha, and it’s not our place to judge. Those who are machmir and willing to sacrifcie quality and price are almost certainly going lifnei mishuras hadin and fulfillinf ratzon HaShem.

Now, in your case, you aren’t sacrificing the Ratzon HaShem of doing business with Jews for gashmiyus, you are doing it for ruchniyus purposes. Which on the one hand sounds noble, but to me, it sounds a little misplace. Because you are sacrificing the Ratzon HaShem that is actually in the Torah, for a different potential Raton HaShem- not benefitting from a questionable mechira that almost all Rabbonim rely on. So, on the one hand, your chumra is a good one, in a vaccum… and it can seem like a better excuse to not buy from Jews that those who use gashmiyus… but how did you make that cheshbon that the ratzon Hashem of not relying on a sale is more important than the Ratzon Hashem of doing business with and supporting other Jews?

This thread reminds me of a story with R’Chaim Kanievsky Zatzal that I heard from R’Eli Stefansky (Yevamos 71, about 10 minutes in). R’Chaim went to visit a certain Rebbe on Chol Hamoed Succos in his sukkah and saw a box of Matzos on the table. He asked him, what was going on, matzos on Sukkos.
He said, “In our chassidus, we are makpid like the hava aminas of the Gemara. The Gemara wanted to compare Sukkos to Pesach, (Gezeira Shava Tes Vav of Pesach to Tes Vav of Sukkos). So we’re makpid to have matzos.”
R’Chaim answered him, “The Gemara had a hava amina that maybe you have to do a bris mila on your ear. Since you didn’t do that, you’re an Arel according to this hava amina and an Arel is assur to eat Matza according to the hava amina in the Gemara on Yevamos daf 71!”

“The way I look at it is that people know that the Mechira is not that good and it would definitely not hurt to be machmir”

chas veshalom to say such a thing about frum yidden.
All frum yidden view the sale as perfectly good. The Chasam Sofer writes (OC 113) anyone who questions the sale should be yelled at.
Chas veshalom to say it was “questionably sold” You are besmirching Gedolei Achronim and the greatest poskim today ALL of whom orchestrate mechiras chometz,

sure there is a hanhaga not to sell chamutz gamur. But that is not the discussion at hand we are not discussing you selling your chometz.

You cannot find any teshuva backing up your mistaken shitah. True Maaseh RAv does say that the Gra did not buy chometz sold over PEsach this was addressed in my 2nd comment in this thread

@AAQ, I think you need to get a life.

The people who try to be machmir on this generally have no idea what they are talking about.

The majority of the chometz that is in your typical local jewish grocery store, was purchased from a jewish distributor. Hence, the entire stock is a problem of chometz shavar alav hapesach until at least the summer. All dry goods from heimeshe brands could have been in the distributor’s warehouse until the winter. There is some chometz that is not even fully rotated until several years. The kosher food economy is self reliant. The further one goes from the kosher retailer, the less of an overview there is on all matters of the supply train. There isn’tmuch certainty who all owned all the chometz that is currently in Wal-Mart.

There is no reason for the local kosher grocery to mark what he brought in after pesach, because that was also owned by a Yid befor Pesach and was sold to a Goy. The grocer has no way of knowing where and when to draw the line on what was sold over Pesach. The same goes for the distributor. It would be very costly to keep track of it. And you Mr. Machmir has not offered to pay for it. I have news for you. Wal-Mart is not tracking this either. Nobody really is. There is a basic awareness of the national distiributing network and one major distributor and several smaller ones are known to be problematic. Nobody is watching if one of the smaller jewish distributors sellsout to a nonjew. This applies equally to chometz that was or wasn’t sold. When we shop by a Jewish Grocery there the knoweldge that they are largely working within the network and all their chometz was properly sold. There is no such assumption with buying from nonjews. I’m not saying it’s a problem, but it is definitely not a chumrah to use an unkown venue in place of the entire kosher food network.

I assume that all post pesach bread is from flour that may have been sold. Do you buy your bread from Wal-Mart for a month? Do you avoid bread crumbs in all jewish resturants all year? Hard alchohol? Beer that is served by a local simcha?

This is not chumros. It is not even hpocrisy. It’s ignorance. Such people have no idea how kosher food works and are a hindarance to enabling kosher food.

Dear Ubiquitin,

When I posted about rov, I assumed it was about a distributor that didn’t sell. I think I got that wrong. But If it was sold, what could use bittul? It’s all heter.

Now that it’s officially of topic, we can just discuss rov.

You wrote:

“The fact that something WAS avoidable doesn’t change anything. Issur neveila WAS avoidable by shechting. nontheless if I intentionally create neveila and it ACCIDENTLY gets mixed up with kosher meat it is batul (again barring the exceptions to bitul mentioned above).”

To avoid initial confusion let me put it in one sentence. We could always go back and forth. I agree with you in application of yesh lo matirin. I was thinking in concept because the post I was responding to, was only in concept.

I understand that it needs to be accidental because rov is only a matir of a mixture. And by definition can’t replace a different matir.

That’s two sentences. Let me try again.

The concept yesh lo matirin means that rov can be matir when the only problem is the issur within the mixture.

N0M

“But If it was sold, what could use bittul? It’s all heter.”

THe OP doesnt believe the sale is valid, he views sold chometz as issur

2 more points
1) “I understand that it needs to be accidental because rov is only a matir of a mixture.”

no it needs to be accidental, becasue ein mevatlin issur lechatchila. You can’t create a situation of bitul. This has nothing to do with davar sheyesh lo matirin

2) “The concept yesh lo matirin means that rov can be matir when the only problem is the issur within the mixture.”

Thats the Ran’s understanding of Davar sheyeh lo matirin.
The more common understanding is that of Rashi, namely why eat it beissur and rely on bitul if you can just wait (or do a minor act) and eat it beheter.
In this case I don’t think the OP’s case is davar sheysh lo matirin. according to either approach a. Chometz sheavar PEsach is issur (again he views sold chometz as issur) so it should be batul in non-chometz shevar al Hapeshac which is heter.
b. Can’t say wait until its heter becasue chometz shear al Hapesach will never ever become heter.

N0m

1) “I understand them the same. Maybe I’m wrong. ”

If you understand Ein mevatlin issur lechatchila and davar sheysh lo matirin as the same (which I suspect you are mixing up) then you are wrong. They are completely different ideas.

2) sources for what?
If you want sources for Davar sheysh lo matirin its its own siman in Shulchn Aruch YD 102
If you want sources for Ein mevatlin issur lechatchila its a few seifim in YD 99: 5-6

Again they are completely different ideas

Dear Ubiquitin,

I would have to go through and then post everything from the basics. Until then I cede you the argument. Though I still think we are coming from different perspectives more than we disagree.

And, the I-can-find-better-kashrus-then-the-yidden-who-manage-the-food-business types are all frauds.