goyishe books

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  • #2016282
    aposhiteyid
    Participant

    whata do people think about non jewish books- im saying even when its “kosher” content

    #2016284
    ujm
    Participant

    Goyishe books are assur because of seforim chitzonim. The Mishna in Sanhedrin 10:1 that says a person loses his Olam Haboa by reading the wrong books since it corrupts his mind.

    #2016385
    Zaphod Beeblebrox
    Participant

    First of all, what’s considered ‘the wrong books’? Clearly we don’t hold that all non Jewish books are assur or no one would be able to go to college where there is always textbooks and required reading. Some would argue that it’s assur to go to college anyway, but that’s not the question here. So if we’re talking about novels, the fact is that contrary to what many would have you believe, there are a ton of absolutely clean books out there and personally I see no problem with them. I think we can all agree that it is healthy and necessary for people to be educated, literate, to have a decent vocabulary and to be generally proficient in their language, all of which reading accomplishes, it would seem that not only is there nothing wrong with English novels, but rather that they should be recommended. Additionally, the source that ujm brought does not exist as far as I could find, at least not in that place.

    edited

    #2016393
    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    Chai – I hope you are aware that Jews don’t determine what is right or wrong based on your feelings and opinions.

    #2016409
    Zaphod Beeblebrox
    Participant

    I am indeed aware of that. That doesn’t change the fact of what I said. Obviously, most parents would rather their kid read nice jewish books. However, in a case where they fail to interest the kid, what’s wrong with a clean English book if it will only do good?

    #2016412
    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    How do you decide if a book is appropriate?

    #2016417
    Lostspark
    Participant

    So all the engineering material I refer to needs to be written by a yid? What is the point you are trying to get across?

    #2016426
    commonsaychel
    Participant

    No one is forcing you to read anything, the meanwhile lets be busy with complicated issues like what better Fanta or Coke

    #2016428
    yaakov doe
    Participant

    Who has time for goyish books. Seforim and Yeshiva world should keep you occupied.

    #2016431
    Zaphod Beeblebrox
    Participant

    A book is appropriate if it is lacking in inappropriate material.

    #2016434
    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    Sounds like you’ve put a lot of thought into this.

    #2016464
    Yserbius123
    Participant

    On one hand, I understand and respect people who reject any non-Jewish book (and censor even Jewish ones) from their homes. On the other hand, I can never see myself doing that.

    #2016467
    Yabia Omer
    Participant

    Why is Mishpacha magazine allowed? It’s full of advertisements. Is that appropriate for Shabbos? What about all the gashmiyus?

    #2016481
    Yserbius123
    Participant

    @Yabia-Omer I think that there’s an unacknowledged danger in “kosher” literature and media in that you think that everything in it is OK and normal and worry about spending the price of a small house to cloth and feed your family for Yom Tov.

    #2016493
    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    Well that’s a pretty ignorant comment.

    Generally you can tell who is actually not reading the jewish books by the rude/derogatory/untrue descriptors and comments they use to describe them, as if they read them, to excuse themselves from reading the stuff they shouldn’t.

    #2016498
    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    “Why is Mishpacha magazine allowed?”
    YO: I haven’t seen an edition of Mishpacha in a while but my recollection is that the stuff they advertise doesn’t rate high on the Gashmiyus Meter.

    #2016496
    Amil Zola
    Participant

    I read non Jewish writing. Primarily non fiction. I had watched a film about a master watchmaker (The Watchmakers Apprentice). This led me to read a book that explains the determination of longitude (called Longitude, by Dava Sobel). Which led me to reading Mercator (Nicholas Crane), which fits the trajectory perfectly.

    #2016497
    AviraDeArah
    Participant

    I quoted the shu”a in OC, 307 16 which forbids secular novels that do not contain any inappropriate content, because of al tifnu snd moshav leitzim. He speaks out in the same seif that if the content has divrei chesek, what we would call romance, then it is even more assur. He also says that novels or literature that has value for yiras shomayim are permitted, quoting Josephus as an example. Rav Hirsch purportedly ecommended reading the german writer schiller, saying that he has Jewish values.

    Why the yeshivos emphasize bitul torah in these discussions is mind boggling

    #2016534
    shlucha22
    Participant

    When the maskilim wanted to spread their ideas around, they didnt publish books telling everyone their philosophy, they printed “innocent” books, that planted ideas and questions in the minds of their readers. Im not saying that there isnt a such a thing as a non jewish book that is ok but you really cant know what ideas you/your family can pick up…

    #2016676
    ujm
    Participant

    Some people don’t care if a book is prohibited by Halacha to be read. If they want to read it, then the heck with Halacha.

    #2016690

    Rav Hirsch gave a speech on 100th birthday of Schiller with a bracha, I think it was published in English 10+ years ago… My favorite poet Henrich Heine was somewhat skeptical of Schiller, at least in his (Heine’s) later years when feeling more Jewish. Enjoy the verse:

    Cholent, spark of Heaven’s lightninge!
    Daughter of Elysium!”
    That’s what Schiller would have written
    If he’d ever tasted cholent.

    #2016708
    Shimon Nodel
    Participant

    Don’t read any books. Simple. You’ll turn out just great!

    #2016714
    Shimon Nodel
    Participant

    If you think reading goyish books is a problem, then you can’t read the articles from YWN that are posted from the AP. Why should articles be different than books?

    #2016781

    Shimon, i must agree

    #2016895
    AviraDeArah
    Participant

    Novels are different than nonfiction. Nonfiction books are not explicitly forbidden by shu”a (see above), and might fall under xhochma which is allowed be’akrai, meaning here and there

    #2016974
    Shimon Nodel
    Participant

    Avirah, I read goyish books for chochma, but I read it here and there and another there. So am I over the allowed quantity?

    #2017011
    ujm
    Participant

    The Rama 246:4 rules explicitly that it is absolutely prohibited according to Halachah to engage in a curriculum of secular studies. To read secular studies now and then, is permitted, he says. The source of the Rama is the Yerushalmi Sanhedrin.

    #2017041
    AviraDeArah
    Participant

    That’s the rema in yoreh deah**

    #2017061
    AviraDeArah
    Participant

    I wish i could rattle off mareh mekomos on non-controversial issues as much as I can about MO, chabad, zionism, college and lther issues… I’m being honest

    #2017091
    eidelmeidel
    Participant

    honestly because its such a ta’ava for many many… and ppl seem to be constantly defending their choices…
    it leads me to believe that their is a niggling feeling in back of everyone’s minds that it ain’t the ideal thing

    #2017159
    Shimon Nodel
    Participant

    Eidel, so don’t ever read any books. Problem solved. Am I wrong?

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