Government Programs for Low Income Families

If you are pregnant or have children under 5 you can qualify for WIC (stands for Women Infants Children). Maximum income level varies by state.

I’ve heard of a federal program called LIHEAP, or low-income heating energy assitance program, to help pay utility bills.

Everyone should make sure they are not missing out on the earned income tax credit.

Part of the Great Society is that it’s easy to get on programs. If the government is giving away money, why shouldn’t people take it?

Jothar- the difference is between being lazy for easy money or working so you can do better than that! Some of these programs dont give that much money, but if you tried getting an extra shift ect you would make more. Dont rely on them because the way the deficit is working, they might cut program funds soon and then you are really in trouble. Also, save the money for those that might need it more than you! (not those that are lazy but those that are sick/single parents ect that cant do it)

The government actively discourages people from making money. I have a relative who had to turn down a job because taking the job would cost more in benefits lost. The government tosses tons of money at people who qualify, courtesy of our strong socialist streak. Why shouldn’t I get everything I’m entitled to? If someone offered to give you money, would you turn it down?

neatfreak,

In the olden days people would have done anything, including horrible menial labor, if that saved them from receiving public assistance. Why not tell your husband to work until you receive your CPA and a better job?

Jothar, that attitude is why so many people are against government programs. Its a shame people are just out to get as much as they can from the people around them. It’s a shame my money is going to support those who don’t need it, just want it.

Neatfreak, if you can’t support your husband in Kollel he should be working. There is no need to take charity from the American people for it.

smartcookie:

Where can I send the Thank You card?

SJS, I’m glad you have been relatively unaffected by this economic downturn, so you are able to gaze from your lofty financial perch and look disdainfully at the hoi polloi who need government assistance to pay the bills. However, as Artchill pointed out in another thread, many families who were formerly very comfortable are now struggling to make ends meet. There is a 10% unemployment rate. Statistically speaking, that means 20% of homes where both parents worked are now making do with 1 breadwinner. And of course, there are homes where both breadwinners were laid off.

As for the kollel people who take government support, 47% of American don’t pay taxes. Many inner-city residents are happily taking government money while living the good life. Why is the money going to those engaged in an intellectual pursuit so terrible? Furthermore, do you think, in an economy with such high unemployment (6 people per job opening), they could actually get a job?

Finally, nobody who is taking government money is taking money from your pocket directly.

Please have a heart and have rachmanut on those who aren’t in your financial matzav.

havesomeseichel, If the person taking these government programs was involved in post-graduate science research, would you tell him to quit it and get a job?

Jothar, I’m not HSS, but if a spouse is involved in post-grad science research, he’d likely be earning some sort of stipend (especially if he were an American citizen). Also, the post-grad work would probably be helping the student reach his degree, which should increase his earning power to a point where aid from gov’t programs would be unnecessary. If neither condition applies, I would agree that the student should indeed find another line of work/ study.

HSS, I’ll take that as a compliment. But I’ve disagreed with you more than once here.

The really prestigious fellowships do have tons of stipend money available. The lesser ones do not, but their work is just as important.

There are about 10,000 families in Lakewood. There are, at most, maybe 10,000 other kollel families throughout America. In the meantime, much of the money used for these massive government entitlements go to slum areas. Ask any residential real estate manager about the renters with 3 or 4 SUV’s, fancy gadgets, etc, but are on every program. The kollel families are not the reason your taxes are so high. By getting from the government, they are able to make ends meet without getting a higher stipend from the Yeshiva. Let them be.

I am not talking about a couple that the husband is learning and by his learning supporting the whole Am Israel in spirituallity, when I refer to a person should not take government give outs, I am talking about a regular person that gets lazy to work and starts relying in government help to support his family and achive in life a good education for his children,to provide for his family and provide for the future generations of Am Israel. When a people fall into government programs they think they do not have any obligation toward their family and community and they do not strive for the benefit of themselves, their families or their communities. Some people just become lazy.

neatfreak, I live in NJ and work in NY. But the point is not really just taking *my* money its that you are taking money from all the people in your state. Sure, you pay taxes, but you are unnecessarily removing money from the state programs when you don’t *need* it. Remember, in today’s economy, more people than ever *need* services to get by. If your husband can find a job, he should be taking it.

You say you aren’t comfortable taking, then don’t. Its a choice you are making. YOU are not really sacrificing for Torah, you are forcing the people of your state to.

I explained above what the difference is for education vs Kollel.

Feel guilty or not – that is up to you. I am just voicing my opinion.

Not looking to participate in the heavy dynamics here, just wanted to give a word of encouragement to neatfreak and all those similar:

Kol hakovod to you for choosing Kollel life; it’s not easy, and I thank you for the Zchusim that you give Klal Yisrael, from which I hopefully benefit.

I’m glad that some of my taxes go to help those who are learning in Kollel (and don’t feel guilty; I know quite well that my taxes would not go down an iota even if not even one Kollel existed), and although the ratio of Kollel to other benefit-takers is tiny, I hope that some of my taxes finds its way to you. Hopefully, I am zoche to this.

Kol hakovod, and keep giving your husband chizuk!

For those of you comparing the financial situation of graduate/medical students to that of kollel students:

1. Medical students do not receive stipends. (The only ones who do are in MD/PhD programs, and it is for the work on the PhD that they receive money–more on that below.) A great many medical students take out loans to cover the cost of tuition and living. The collateral for those loans is the MD’s earning ability later on–repayment of those loans is long-term–as the MD will not be able to repay them for quite some time. Average debt for medical students–about $150,000.

2. Graduate students in sciences–many do receive stipends. This, however, is not provided stam–it is generally a salary for teaching classes to undergraduates. Otherwise, they may receive a specific stipend for performing a specific topic of research. This, however, is something that the student’s adviser has gotten through grant applications–and they are very competitive. The grants are very goal-directed, and go for a very limited amount of time. Progress reports are demanded. For this, the student is expected to spend 60+ hours/ week in the lab on slow days–and over 90+ hours/week during the high-stress times. and there is no such thing as “ben hazmanim”. In other words, graduate work in the sciences is a more-than-full-time job. These students are exempt from tuition by their institutions.

3. Graduate work in the non-sciences is much less funded than what I have described above. There are a few teaching positions available, and a very few stipends. So most of the students doing graduate work in history, or literature, or such topics—have to solve the problem in other ways. Those who do not have money in the family usually hit upon the same original idea–they go to work. They study part-time, and work part-time to support their study. These students usually pay tuition, as well.

Although I believe that Kollel students should receive stipends in the same generous grant amount ranges as those graduate students in the serious science programs on grants, I know that Kollelim do not have the funding available for the (very roughly) 20,000 Kollel students around the country.

(The following is intended as chizuk for Kollel families like neatfreak, and not addressing anyone who feels Kollel families should not be on programs, be in Kollel, or any other variation on the topic. To each their own positions- everyone has a right to their own.)

However, I am thrilled that the possibility exists that my tax monies may journey their way to a Kollel family’s home, via government programs. I am fully aware that the amount of benefits paid to Kollel families are statistically insignificant as compared to the general population receiving grants, such that if not one Kollel student applied for programs, my taxes would not go down even a cent. However, I take heart from the old horse story involving a Yeshiva collector. Although I do not recall the name of the Yeshiva referenced, there is an old story of a collector trekking from town to town by foot, in a frayed coat, gathering monies to support a Yeshiva. Once, a generous donor supplied the collector with a horse and wagon to alleviate the difficult annual journey. In one town, a donor gave an amount that was significantly less than his usual donation. The Rosh Yeshiva later inquired of the donor why this was so, and the donor explained that he didn’t want to support the acquisition of such items like horses for collectors- he thought he had been donating to directly support Torah learning. Replied the Rosh Yeshiva: Ah, but it depends on your kavonos and merits. Some people merit that their monies go directly to the Yeshiva. Some people only merit that their money goes to a horse (in aid in collection activity).It depends on the donor… The donor gave the full amount.

I think of this in regard to my taxes. Although I need to pay taxes, and know that Kollel families are not the cause of existing or ever-increasing taxes, I do know that my taxes go to individuals in need of assistance. There are many individuals in need in my state. I hope that I merit for “my taxes” to benefit Bnei Kollel, and that my tax monies thereby attain nitzchiyus in that merit. Of course, it is good to know that general tax monies are helping *all* in need, but I feelings and kavana are as stated above.

Kollel families- chazak! May you continue to uphold the world with such single-minded application to Torah study.

HSS, unemployment insurance really isn’t in the same category as WIC, Medicaid, food stamps, or other gov’t aid programs. To qualify for unemployment insurance, one must work for a certain minimum amount of time & lose one’s job (without being fired for cause). Unemployment insurance is funded by contributions from the employer & the employee. It is meant to replace part of one’s lost income while he looks for work. Unlike the other gov’t programs mentioned there is no means test. Anyone, regardless of assets or household income, can qualify for unemployment insurance as long as he is looking for a job & meets certain other criteria.

Would you say that someone who has assets or whose spouse is working shouldn’t cash his social security check, since other people may need it more?

This is truly one of those situations where “hamachmir yachmir leatzmo”. Why should someone suffer due to your chumra of not taking money?

Josh31, you are correct in that WIC saves the gov’t money, but neither WIC nor food stamps are intended to promote military readiness (as A600KiloBear pointed out). If food stamps were intended for that purpose, they would be reserved for able-bodied men of draft-eligible age. But actually anyone, of any age, is eligible for food stamps. And WIC is exclusively for pregnant/ nursing/ post-partum women & children under 5; these people are not generally considered good building blocks for the military.

WIC does save money because it is targeted to people who are low-income & nutritionally at risk (although the “nutritionally at-risk” criterion is so broadly defined that almost anyone can meet it). People in this group are less likely than others to buy cheaper & less nutritious foods for their children or dilute their babies’ formula if they are low on cash. By investing in the nutrition of these at-risks babies & children, the gov’t ensures that they are more likely to be healthy, & less likely to need additional gov’t services, as they grow.

I think most frum people using WIC would sooner starve themselves than their children, but that doesn’t mean it’s wrong for someone to use it if she qualifies.

Personally I think it’s fine to use these services temporarily if one needs them, but it’s important to have a plan to reach a point where one won’t need them anymore. I don’t think it’s a good idea to rely on low-income programs for the long-term, whether one is studying in grad school or in kollel, because it creates a culture of dependency.

I do pay a lot of taxes now, but given that my taxes fund many gov’t activities I disagree with, I don’t mind the small fraction that goes to these low-income programs. (And even though many of these programs are administered by each state, a significant portion of the funds come from bloc grants from the federal gov’t).