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The original subject for this thread was going to be good idea, bad idea. Heres why:
Good Idea!
Then I thought:
Bad idea.
True, the tumult matches do not have the lasting effects that a shidduch does, but if you think about it, here are some of the things that play a part of the chavrusa process:
1) All shares a common goal
3) Trivial things (looks, money, yichus, ect) are not the sole reason for choosing a chavrusa
Good idea?
BP Totty,
As you are a Totty and in dating you don’t know what’s going on out there. Most girls start dating at 18-19 and DON’T HAVE A CLUE. Many of the girls are so confused. There are probably many hundreds of girls who have dated both yeshivish learning boys and(sometimes very modern) working boys. What’s the deal? Don’t they know what they want?
BP totty YOU ARE so funny!
Someone had told my husband that looking for a shidduch is like looking for a chavrusa, just with more chumros.
Seems like they used to do that during the beis hamikdosh. on Tu B’Av. You can’t do that today with all the machmir and more machmir going on. You have any idea how this would look? Bais Yakov girls and yeshiva boys in a parking lot? Anyway the coed schools do that and it don’t work too good for them. Let’s go back to bad idea.
BP Totty: Let’s take a step back a minute. Here’s a mashal: I am looking for a dishwasher currently. How do I know what I need? I research – read about cycles, water temperature, etc…; I look at colors; I speak to my friends and go “visit” their dishwashers. An awful lot of time spent involved in dishwashers before I buy one. And that’s just for an appliance!
A typical Yeshiva Bochur, at age 21, has no way to know “what he wants” in a girl, ‘cuz he has no opportunity to research girls. Girls are assur. Can’t look. Can’t talk to. Thinking about them is the Yetzer Hara at work. What do we expect from these kids?
Maybe having a singles night in Lakewood every few months isn’t such a bad idea. Boys and girls in shidduchim can get together in a light atmosphere and get to know each other. Girls and guys can meet each other or set each other up with their friends. There would be a few shadchanim circulating around as well as other adults just to keep things on track. I think the opportunity to meet members of the other gender informally (and of course under “supervision”) would be very beneficial both in the amount of shidduchim that would be made and also in allowing guys and girls to get comfortable and more familiar with the opposite gender so they can fully understand what they are looking for.
BP Totty,
I thought the whole point was to take away the formalities and framework of the “system.” Why the need to designate separate nights for different (artificial?) classifications? Why not let whomever is interested come all together on the same night (or day) and let them all work it out for themselves.
I know, I know, we cant trust those little kids to actually handle things on their own in a mature manner. Perhaps not. But maybe, just maybe, they will choose to use the responsibility given to them in a responsible and sensible manner. After all, God put us here and pretty much lets us do what we want – we can choose to be good people or bad, its all in our hands. God doesn’t stand over us with lightning bolts ready to pounce if we take a wrong step. Only by giving us the responsibility and choice to be good people does our choice to do so mean anything.
\Why not give our kids the same opportunity?
how about changing the name of the thread to something that explains what it’s about a little better like Singles tumult or singles night out so more people will be attracted to this thread.
somebody has got to start this. Single events shouldn’t just be for older singles and those with a different background (eg baal teshuva)
bp totty- I never understood why the mother is always the one who communicates with the shadchan shouldn’t the singles themselves be the ones telling the shadchan what they want in life. After all they know themselves best. I’ve heard too many stories of mothers who looked for things in a daughter in law that the boy didn’t care about. Yes, there should be shadchanim around but the singles themselves should speak to them. Besides for being able to hear what they want straight from them, the shadchan will be able to size them up and get a much clearer picture of them.
I think this idea has great potential. Now somebody has to convince the BMG roshei yeshiva to give their haskama and it will take off
Why is this a good idea?
I assume we’re talking about lakewood guys. The vast majority of lakewood guys are married within a year of beginning to date. There is no problem. What are you trying to solve?
YG1 – I think the theory underlying your post might be summed up as: “If they’re supposed to be old/mature/responsible enough to get married, than they are old/mature/responsible enough to handle their own dating process” And the inverse would be correct as well!
And good luck with that haskama thing. (hint: sometimes, you just have to do things grassroots, and let the chips fall where they may: either you’ll get the haskama later, or you’ll be asked to disband – but if even one successful shidduch comes out of that first un-haskama-ed meeting – it will have been worth it!)
This sounds like “speed dating” which was invented several years ago by a rabbi to address the issue of a shortage of ways for eligible Jewish people to meet one another. Naturally it was such a good idea that it has been adopted by the world at large.
MG I didn’t really have in mind speed dating as much as just a night out where singles can get to know each other but I guess speed dating could work
srp Basically, shidduch tumult aside, I can’t for the life of me figure out why eveerything has to go through intermediary after intermediary(his mother her mother).
Practically speaking, taking into account political realities, you could probably pull this off for “older” singles (you know, girls past age two) with supervision. Pre screened, supervised, moving into standard shidduch dating – yeah, I think that would work. Maybe not in Lakewood itself -again, political realities – but it’s possible. With one parent with definetely take the sting off of it, and people may come around.
Practically, also, an open singles night is a real bad idea, for all the reasons shidduchim were invented. But to have more openness in a modest, controlled way – the only phone number you get is the shadchan’s – sounds like, well, a good idea.
“A typical Yeshiva Bochur, at age 21, has no way to know “what he wants” in a girl, ‘cuz he has no opportunity to research girls. Girls are assur. Can’t look. Can’t talk to. Thinking about them is the Yetzer Hara at work. What do we expect from these kids?”
SRPsych, then it would be the same if they weren’t yet married at 26/27, ch’v. if they don’t know at 21 and they don’t know at 22 and they don’t know at 23, cuz it’s all assur, even just to think about it, why is 26/27 any different?
SRPsych-
A guy doesnt have to look at a girl, talk to a girl or think of a girl to figure out what qualities he is looking for in a wife. And if he desperately needs to see an example he can look at the qualities that he likes in his mother!
BP Totty, are you suggesting re-implementing Tu Bav?
Only if we have dance classes to make it fair. Just like in the time of the Bais Hamikdash.
BP Totty, be careful or you’ll be branded MO! LOL
Thinking about it, its not a bad idea for those willing. I think that certain things would need to be disclosed (mental illness etc) because that’s important. Each person should list their positive attributes and their negative ones. You can learn a lot about a person from their negative traits – more so than from positive ones.
Its not somethign I could ever do, but it could work.
HLM – BY 26/27 many unmarrieds are not strictly in Yeshiva anymore. Or, if they are, they have been to enough married friends houses (or out on enough dates!), to have had a bit more exposure to the forbidden species.
Whatru – I disagree. I needed to look at dishwashers to figure out which features was really important to me in a dishwasher. And that’s just a kitchen appliance.
True, most Lakewood boys do get married within a year, but at what age, and to what age counterpart? And what do they plan to do once their primary source of cash (wife or parents) decide Dayeinu?
Which of these is a problem and also will be addressed by shidduch tumult?
sorry.
I am asking which of those things is a problem, and which is a problem which will be addressed by this solution.
Meaning- The age of the boys and girls is not a problem (unless are you in age gap theory?). The plans of support may be a problem, but I do not see how singles events will solve it.
BP Totty – you sound like a great father!
Hey, if someone had tried to set me and my spouse up by working from a paper it never would have happened. We are complete opposites, with different personalities and interests. We weren’t even religiously EXACTLY alike at the beginning.
16 years and counting………….. :o)
So, nu? Who’s gonna get this going?
Too bad CR readers can’t consider the “ywn shidduchim” thread anymore.
I had a good idea which combined the ywn shidduchim idea with BP’s shidduch tumult idea, but it wasn’t allowed to post.
Can you all figure it out?
Why not create a vetted, legitimate, acceptable and approved ywn shadchan whom members could approach voluntarily for appropriate shidduchim?
BP Totty
The ywn shidduchim thread was repeatedly removed.
Mod- I’m trying again.
BP: just put up a time and place where YWN singles will meet in Brooklyn, and you can moderate it. I must mention that I do not approve of it, though.
(definitely posted for amusement)
bp totty I differ with you on one critical aspect. You seem to want to involve the parents in every little thing. I envision a night where singles can get together without their parents and work things out amongst themselves of course with the help of mediators (or whatever word you prefer). Once there is a potential shidduch then parents can get involved in checking out the other side. But even there the parents will play a more limited role as the boy and girl will talk directly to the shadchan. The parent wiil end up playing more of a background role in the shidduch doing the checking and providing support and advice.
One possible reason why shadchanim would want to sponsor such an event would be the monetary incentive. Shadchanim would be able to collect shadchanus on shidduchim that they guide to the end even though many of these shidduchim will be initiated by the boy and girl themselves or their friends. They won’t have to do all the jumping through hoops to get that first date. Maybe someone should give this sales pitch to their local shadchan
Whom do we get in touch with and how? Did Oomis accept her nomination?
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