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Woodstock festival drew way more people, the music was probably a lot better and the amenities were more along the lines of “roughing it” than the accomodations in uman.
Be that as it may, the OP did not ask if he should go because he anticipates a sublime spiritual experience. He asked is he should go for the hock.
Grateful
Do you think that if the “event” was created anywhere in EY that the result would be different?
If the exact same “kibbutz” was set up by the meoras ha machpelah do you really think the end result would be any different?
People are going for the experience of being part of an event, not bc there is inherent kedusha to the spot. And frankly I find the idea slightly kfiridik. It’s one thing to assign kedusha to an area immediately around the kever of a tzadik. But since most of these 60k aren’t anywhere near the kever, please explain the kedusha.
The Arizal said that if we understood the kedusha of the meoras hamachpeleh we would start kissing the dirt miles bf we got there.
To ascribe some similar kedusha to Uman is kefira.Kefira? I’ll settle on silliness.
mentsch: The exact same event IS set up in Israel by the kever of Shimon bar Yochai by many [real] Breslev Chasidim, and it does not descend into the same madness. The part of Breslev that insists on Uman also seems to also be the part that attracts tens of thousands of hippies.
The “idea” of going to kevrei tzadikkim at this time of the year (Erev Rosh HaShanah at least) is brought down in the Rema, so I would not recommend calling it kefira.
The disaster of Uman is not just because of people going to a Rabbi’s grave. That happened for centuries with no problems. The disaster is because of a group using hippie, feel-good yiddishkeit as their selling point with no concern for the consequences.
There are 2 ways to win in a court case…
1) A good lawyer
2) Pleading insanity….Rosh Hashana is the BIG court case….going to Uman is ‘pleading insanity’…:)
Neville
Your point is well taken and perhaps I was to strong in my language.
Though to be honest, I have made similar statements in the CR about Meron.
Not about the kefira, but about the irony that the tanna most known for his abhorrence of bitul torah has such a hullabaloo.
But your point about kevarim on erev RH is brought down, I’ve never seen similar statements about RHAfter years of debating the “Uman issue” on some variation of this tread every year around the yamim noraim, no minds have really been changed. For the hard core nachmanites and a much larger number of disenfranchised yidden “looking for new connection with yiiddeshkeit, and an even larger number of new age spiritualists looking for a “high”, Uman will be the Woodstock of their respective hashkafos. For the rest of us, it seems like a waste of money and poor choice of venue given Uman’s connection with the worst anti-semitism in history but that is their decision, not mine.
The people whom I know go to Uman have the blessings of their families. Im sure not everyone has their family blessings, but you can pretty much say the same thing about almost any aspect of Yiddishkeit, I know people who went into Kollel with their family blessings and other without
mentsch1
There are many organised kibbutzim for Rosh Hashanah by Rebbes and Yeshivos in EY and none of them attract 60,000 people.
Someone once spent Rosh Hashanah at the Kotel and there were barely 250 people there.
I don’t know what makes you think the 60,000 don’t get near the kever, most people are only a few feet away, and in any event the Rebbe said to be in “Uman for Rosh Hashanah”. To be at the Kever on Erev Rosh Hashanah to present a Pidyon, say the Tikkun Hakloli, and daven selichos, Tehillim etc. is the minhag of Breslover chassidim, and for all yidden to go to a Beis Olom on Erev rosh Hashanah I think is brought in Seforim/Mishnah Berurah.mentsch1
If you understood the Kedushah of Rebbe Nachman’s Tziyon in Uman, you probably would not be able to live in the World any more, and in any event Reb Noson (Rebbe Nachman’s main talmid) said ” if I had to go through roads of knives to get to Uman for Rosh Hashanah – I WOULD CRAWL THERE!”Neville ChaimBerlin
That Kibbutz at Rashbi was during the Communist years when no Breslovers could go to Uman. There is no such Kibbutz today as those who made the Rashbi Kibbutz were the first to run back to Uman after the (Berlin!)wall came down in 1989.Furthermore there is no “disaster” of Uman because of some hippies going there, Uman is Uman whoever is there and has been a great success for all these years!
“Neville ChaimBerlin
That Kibbutz at Rashbi was during the Communist years when no Breslovers could go to Uman. There is no such Kibbutz today as those who made the Rashbi Kibbutz were the first to run back to Uman after the (Berlin!)wall came down in 1989.”Now that just isn’t true. From my understanding of Brelev history, R. Bender’s shittah that Meron is not a suitable substitute for Uman was somewhat of a daas yochid.
Hopefully links within the YWN site are allowed.Also, HaRav Yaakov Meir Shechter didn’t go to Uman for 30 years until apparently last year:
Hagaon HaRav Yaakov Meir Shechter Is Traveling To Uman For Rosh Hashanah
2017 is well after the fall of the Berlin wall.Is he going back this year?
“I don’t know what makes you think the 60,000 don’t get near the kever, most people are only a few feet away,”
How can 60,000 people be within a few feet?
Besides which, I’ve heard that the number is between 30,000 and 40,000. But either way, most will not be near the lever.Most might not even be in the original place of where Uman was.
Neville ChaimBerlin,
It was in 2015 that the caption of Meron you pasted above is taken from and it was not Breslov chassidim, it just says thousands of Mispallelim are expected there. What actually happened is not reported.
HaGaon HaRav Yaakov Meir Shechter Shlita has now established his own centre and Shul in Uman called Kiryah Neemonah. It is absolutely massive. As to why he did not go in the past nobody can be sure.
why doesnt he daven and be inspired by the 60,000 near the kever?
“It was in 2015 that the caption of Meron you pasted above is taken from and it was not Breslov chassidim, it just says thousands of Mispallelim are expected there. What actually happened is not reported.”
Are you actually theorizing that nobody actually showed up in Meron and the article is all part of some intricate conspiracy?
The point is, there are legitimate alternatives to going to Uman brought down by Rav Shternhartz himself. You guys even agreed that when Uman was under Soviet control, larger portions of Breslevers had to rely on these alternatives. Don’t you think that Uman becoming a land of drugs and znus might also be a decent reason to look into alternate venues?
Neville ChaimBerlin,
– How many people actually turned up for it (Meron 2015 Rosh Hashanah)?
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