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Is it muttar to take a vacation to a place, where you won’t be able to daven with a minyan? Not talking about women or someone who has a unique psak for doing so (psychological, physical, etc).
I will rephrase your question. Are you allowed to do something currently (where you don’t do anything wrong) which will cause that later on you have to rely on a bedaved davening without a minyan?
You can’t compare it to the case where the hot water spilled on shabbos because there is mitzva to do milah which causes the pikuach nefesh to heat water after. Here there is no mitzva to go on vacation.
No. A vacation is not a shas hadchak.
Ask your LOR
Joseph, did you see the rephrasing of the question. There is nothing wrong
in going to a vacation. You daven with a minyan before you leave.If it is in EY it is definitely permitted as it is a mitzva.
1,
Posing questions on this site elicits fake halacha from Joseph. Ask your LOR and find one if you don’t have one.
Las, then again you can’t compare the mitzvah of milah to minyan
Asides it not even a deO’raysa, according to many shitos, you can not make an Eruv Techuman on order to go daven with a a minyan.Also, as per halacha there is shiur how far you need to travel ro go to a minyan. I would assume, there are no halachos about not traveling at all.
Its not a cop out answer, because its not so cut and dry, there are different opinions on this
Mincha and Maariv are especially hard to get in many places, even if they have a Shachris
I know someone who asked this very question of his LOR. The answer given. Muttar, yes. The Ravs haskama, no.
That is the trouble with this on-line forum! Don’t take the easy (lazy) way out. Ask a competent Posek how to deal with your situation.
1 – I explained already that assuming that you have a good reason going to this place on vacation, so you are not doing anything wrong since you davened already with a minyan before you left. It is recommended that, if there is a shul, daven there and the time when people daven.
Does anyone have a source for the halachic obligation (not just the importance which can be seen in brachot 6 – 8,) to pray with ten men?
Phil,
“Posing questions on this site elicits fake halacha from Joseph. Ask your LOR and find one if you don’t have one”
I wouldn’t worry about 1. He and Joseph just did a CR “alley-oop” play that’s pretty common around here. The “Question” thread about pru urvu is another example of the same.
I think most people here know to “AYLOR” the real shailas. It’s clear that the OP seems to think he already has the answer, and just wants to hock about it.
Shulchan Aruch O”CH 90:9
Does anyone have a source for the halachic obligation (not just the importance which can be seen in brachot 6 – 8,) to pray with ten men?
Another source for the importance, not halachic, seems to be Psalms 82:1: “… G-d stands in the Divine assembly …”
Laskern,
Lets rephrase the question:Are you permitted to create an Eruv Techuman in order to go daven with Minyan on Shabbos?
“Why’s it muttar?”
Probably because Tefilla is a chiyuv, tefilla bitzibur is not. There are certainly many maalos to tefila bitzibur, (which is probably one of the reasons why the Rav said you dont have my haskama for such a plan).
There is a Baal Haturim on ויקץ יעקב משנתו ויאמר Yaakov Avinu woke up from his sleep and said, has the last letters צבור indicating that ones prayer is only listened to in unity. We need each others zachusim that our prayers be listened to. It says before אכן יש ה’ במקום הזה ואנכי לא ידעתי could be related to the above, Hashem exists in this place provided I put aside my egotism.
It does not say in the above mentioned source that it is a chiyuv, It says that effort should be exerted. More important to daven in a shul and the time people are davening.
1,
It is not exactly a chiyuv gamur, as I pointed out the key to the question is the answer to the above.
“Are you permitted to create an Eruv Techuman in order to go daven with Minyan on Shabbos?
I think the argument between Yaakov Avinu and the brothers is, if to satisfy the judgement requirement for kidnapping do you have to kill the whole city of Shechem or satisfy the requirement by some other means like making them slaves.
The MB in O”CH 415:4 mentions the creating an Eruv Texhuman for a minyan is a mitzva.
Gaon, does permission of Erev Techumin required to be a Chiyuv or just a Mitzva?
Las,
“I think the argument between Yaakov Avinu and the brothers is,”You meant to post it on the other thread 🙂
1,
I will elaborate, Eruv Techuman can only be made in terms of performing a mitzvah, like קבלת פני רבו on YT.Now, there are Rishonim that specifically state that you are NOT permitted to make an Eruv Techuman in order to daven with minyan, hence we see clear thar there is grey area here.
Las,
See Magen Avrohom there that the Maharil does not exactly permit it. And there other Rishonim in Eruvin that clearly forbid it.
My point is the very fact that there are shitos that do not allow an Eruv Techuman for the sake of minyan, indicates that iy is not exactly a chiyuv, and one may travel without a minyan
.
However, there is of course the issue that even if it’s permitted you still losing out on all great inyanim that minyan tefilah has to offer, that your prayers are answered even without total kavanah etc..whereas beychidot you need total kavanah etc..It is absolutely permissible to go on vacation if there is no minyan. Shulchan Aruch discusses the obligation of going to a minyan in the town or area where one is located and there is a minyan taking place so one is obligated to go. And refers to one that does not go as shochen rah. Whereas it is not written anywhere prohibiting anyone to go to a place where there is no minyan
Does one have to take a more expensive flight overseas if he knows that the cheaper one will not have a minyan?
Does one have to change a date on a flight if can somehow know in advance that on the current date he most likely will not have minyan.
Should one take a stopover flight rathwr then direct if he knows he wont have minyan on the direct flight.?
If one normally wears a hat to daven , but he lost his hat. Should he daven with or without mnyan because of the embarrassment.
Takes2 – Look at the Baer Hetev O:CH 90:13 many of your questions will be answered.
No, in either way, people who care will ask, where is your hat or they don’t know and their won’t be an embarassment. As according to the Baer
Hetev above you are not mechuyav to spend any money on a minyan but not gaining money might be different.Gaon, you did not answer my question in 1571760 as it says mitzva and not chiyuv.
Takes2,
Without going into details – As per the Gemorah in Pesachim 46a and in Shu”A you only need to go back a “MIL” which is 2000 Amos, figure out the time it takes to walk 2000 amos. Hence, that is the time you are required to invest as per halacha to participate davening with a minyan.
Making a stop is much more time that.
However, in any case, there is surely an inyan and one should try even on the cost of money if one can afford it. It is no diff than spending more on a esrog or buying a fancy leichter for shabbos etc.
Just curious who chabad shluchim rely on to move lechatchilla to a place with no minyan.
They must have a shita which they rely on because theyve been moving to remote places for
Many many years nowLas, and all;
Here is a fascinating responsum from haPosek HaGadol Rav Henkin ZT”L in his sefer פירושי לב איברא.
I remembered someone proving from Eruv Techuman…http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=3217&st=&pgnum=158&hilite=
Las,
Correct a Mitzvah is enough for Techumn, same reason you can use it for a Chasunah etc.
And that is exactly my point regarding the Maharil forbidding an Eruv for Minyan – that its basically only a “hidur” in Mitzvah of Tefilah not a complete mitzvah, at least shitah of the Mahril, the M”A disagrees though .
And I think the Tosfos R”P in Eruvin also paskens like the Maharil.
Is having a minyan to daven with the reason why we read about chashuvah rabbonim going off to exotic locations on vacations and schlepping along a number of their chassidim with them? Its expensive enough just to fly the rav and his family on chartered flights or business class as is sometimes the case but the costs become substantially greater to the Rav’s mosdos to absorb if he must also fly another 7-8 chassidim (since I assume he will take at least one or two gaaboim with him irrespective of the minyan question).
Two-2-Tango……the rebbe explicitly addressed the issue of his shalichim locating in areas where there were a lot more challenges for a frum yid than just not having a minyan for davening. How about not having access to kosher food, no yeshiva for the kids, no mikvah, etc. While one obviously doesn’t earn the same z’chus for going trekking in the Himalayas as he would for bringing unaffiliated yidden back to yiddeshkeit, presumably if it was per se assur, the Rebbe would never have sent hundreds of his chassidim to locations where a minyan would be a rarity for most of the year.
see shu’t shevat haleyvy vol 9, 60 (not sure)
1,
Takes-2 a meschichist isn’t a ra’ayah”
Why are you bringing up Meshichists? Chabad has sent shluchim there way before Meshichist movement came about.
Also, in the rebbes mind its an inyan of saving neshomos, that would have been eternal lost.
No doubt it overides minyan, no less than all yiden who liven in ‘Kefarim’ all year long and only came in for Rosh hashanah, megilah etc. becuase of Parnasah..
There is a new trend especially in Toronto where people go to one of two cottage areas one that has a minyan & one that doesn’t. The problem is that some families stay in this cottage tthat doesn’t have a minyan for Shabbos. I think if people stay in such a place for Shabbos & it’s because of Shalom Bayis where the wife is the one that wants to go on such a vacation the husband should take his wife to their LOR to ask a shaila if it’s muttar to go on a vacation where they will miss Minyan on Shabbos.
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