Going off the Derech

WOW, we parents especially mothers are so connected to our children in the most natural of ways, by giving and nurturing them. We have a NEED to take care of them, and in return we have a NEED for them to accept from us and to show love in return.

When our children go through this nisayon they are not thinking about anyone but themselves. What they do has nothing to do with the parents. They are NOT thinking “I won’t accept this from my MOM who worked so hard and lovingly to do this for me, I will just stab her in the heart and show her I don’t care.” That is the feeling that WE get when we are rejected in our efforts, that is the slap in the face we feel and exactly the stab in the heart that reaches its mark, but in reality there was no mark intended.

This immature child does NOT think about anyone but himself nor anything other than what HE wants and needs. At this point “selfish” is his middle name. Sometimes its a barrier he puts up to prove to himself that he doesn’t NEED his parents and he can take care of himself. And sometimes it is just plain the immaturity and foolishness of the age and the rebellion he is going through. Think about it, when you were a kid, didn’t you wonder why you had to eat real food when all you wanted to eat was junk? Well he is making that stupid choice for himself right now. When he gets sick of the sugar highs and junk food he will learn to appreciate a good home cooked meal. Kids complain about having to go to bed early and don’t appreciate that “sleep” is a commodity and something to cherish. When we get older and have insomnia and too many worries to fall asleep or stay asleep we understand what a blessing being able to just go to sleep is.

WOW, I am going to say it again. We can’t control anyone but ourselves and we can’t change anyone but ourselves. We just can’t make him change unless he is ready to do so. It has to be his choice. It is no different than getting a heavy person to diet. If they don’t do it for themselves when they are ready to do it, there is no point in pushing them because it will only backfire.

A person has to be ready to change their behavior, their habits, their negative thoughts and actions. They have to choose to do it. Even though we want them to change so very much it is not in our power nor in our control to force that change to happen.

I would like to ask you something. This is your son, your child, your gift from Hashem. At the very worst scenario he may never come back, again that is the worst scenario, not everyone does. At the best scenario he will find the right sheliach who will help him return 100%. Then there are many various possibilities between the two. No matter what happens in the future he is still your son.

Where is the pain coming from? Is it coming from a place that your son is hurting and suffering or is it coming from a place that you and your family are hurting and suffering? Do you understand the difference? If it is coming from your concern about your son, you will have to learn to deal with it in the way that any mother has to let go and let their children fly. We will still hurt but we can teach ourselves to let the control go and just love him no matter what.

If you are hurting because your family is suffering due to the neighbors and the rest of the family that is a whole other ballgame and that is something else you have to work on altogether. You have to learn to separate your pain from your child’s pain and not mix up the two. You can’t bring him back or tug on the rope because he is embarrassing you or not fulfilling your needs for the perfect son or the son he once was. Kids change even if they don’t go to this extreme, they still change and as parents we either accept those changes as growing pains or we risk losing them altogether. As long as we love them unconditionally and leave the lines of communications open, there is always a chance that they will still choose to learn from us and come back to allow us to guide them to successful life choices, or at least to discuss them with us.

If on the other hand we tug too hard and don’t let them test the waters of their own choices, or fight them on it too hard, we risk slamming the door on a loving relationship that they are entitled to no matter what their choices are. Hashem does NOT give us these gifts with any guarantees. WE can lead by example, but we also have to learn to “listen to understand” and follow from their example. If they say stop, we need to learn to stop. That doesn’t mean we stop loving them nor do we stop trying but we stop pushing. “Honey, do you want me to pack something for you take back with you? Should I make you a cake?” If he says “ok” then go ahead. If he says “don’t bother” then don’t bother. Let him know you love him and you look forward to seeing him next time; remind him that you are there for him so call anytime.

Its possible when you stop pushing he will ask for it. Its possible when you play it cool and let him run the show, he will make his own suggestions if not, be patient. Wait it out. I know it is hard, but you are both still in “learning mode”. This is a new situation for both or you and there are no handbooks on this. It is a see as you go type of thing.

I want to relate a story to you. My oldest son was away in Yeshiva in another state. When he graduated High School and came home he was my little boy again. Except that he wasn’t. He was 18 and he drove a car and he would go out at night. One night he didn’t come home and he didn’t call. I woke up in middle of the night and he was not in his bed. I panicked, I thought he was dead in the street somewhere (you know how mother’s imaginations take off..) I got into the car and started to search the neighborhood. I was scared out of my wits. I was driving and driving and I was crazy and yet was there a chance that I would find him?

When he finally came home that morning I went nuts. First I kissed him to death because I was so happy he was ok and then I wanted to kill him. I read him the riot act. I told him he was so inconsiderate, why hadn’t he called me, why didn’t he come home? Why did he do this to me? Didn’t he know I was worried, I am his mother I need to know where he is and so on and so on.

Well when I stopped yelling and crying and calmed down, he calmly told me he WAS considerate. He realized it was late and I was sleeping so he didn’t want to wake me up by calling. He was at a friend’s house that I knew and he was so tired that he didn’t want to drive and fell asleep on the couch. He then said, I was out of town for 3 years and you didn’t know where I was any night for all those years. If you trusted me to be away for 3 years and I didn’t make any trouble you have to trust me now too. I am NOT a baby and I don’t want you chasing me down and embarrassing me with my friends. He told me he will try to call me earlier if he will be home late.

I realized that he was right. I couldn’t treat him the same way as I did before he left for Yeshiva. He was not the same little boy. I had to let him go.

When my daughter was around 20, she decided to go to the store at 11:30 pm to get some snacks for her class the next day. I asked her to take her brother with her. My husband heard them leave and he asked me where they were going and I told him. He started to yell at me how could I let them go out so late at night, they are just kids…etc. I reminded him that at their age we were already married and our parents didn’t know anything about our whereabouts. They will be fine.

There comes a time in every parent’s life when we have to let go. Sometimes sooner and B”H many more times later. In this case it is more like easing up and giving some slack to the rope because the more you pull on the rope to pull him back into the fold, the more he will pull back and harder to go on his own path.

WOW, as you said it is almost a year now, and although it was so painful, what you thought you could never survive you did survive just like every other parent who has gone through this terrible nisayon. And of course it is not over. Could you possibly sit down for a few minutes and think of what you have learnt this past year? What worked and what didn’t? Can you think about if this is about you, directed to you? Does he treat your husband different than he treats you?

Please try to separate your own pain from your child’s pain, and understand that none of his attitude, selfishness or rudeness is meant to be directed at you personally. Pesach is stressful enough so take the best tools that you learned this year and apply them, especially for the time he will be home on vacation. Stay out of the line of fire..don’t bother doing things for him when he doesn’t want you to. Concentrate on yourself and doing what you need to do. You can pick up on your efforts with your son after Pesach. Don’t add additional stress.

Try to get him to help, but don’t count on it. Put post it notes on everything that is done for Pesach so there is no confusion that he wasn’t home and didn’t hear the announcement. I did that a lot “this room is ready for Pesach!”. Let him know that you don’t want to go through his things so he should clean his part of the room by himself or you will have to do it for him, because the entire HOUSE has to be cleaned for Pesach. Now is a good time to teach him how to do his own laundry, especially if he is not helping for Pesach. “Let me show you how to do your laundry since I am overworked right now. At least I won’t have to worry about your clothes.

But other than that don’t make him the focus of the home. Pesach is the focus right now. Let him know that you would all love him to be at the sedorim and that his place will be set for him. Expect the worst and then be happy with whatever you get. Don’t expect him to show up, and if he does it will be a happy moment. If you expect him to come and he doesn’t you will be disappointed.

Don’t borrow trouble so don’t get anxious and worry about what might be, choose your battles and try to ignore whatever you can. And the best I can say to you is count your blessings. Don’t look at what is going wrong in your life, look at what is going right.

WOW, so then let me guarantee you that he won’t be with this group for long. It is very, temporary. Although every single day seems like a very long time, it will soon break up as each one will find there own path or be drafted. You are in Israel, that is a reality they will have to face. As they get closer to that reality they will have to mature a lot quicker. Here in the states we don’t have that wake up call.

I wonder if the boys speak about that at all. Things have changed in Israel and i wonder if that is on their mind at all. It is great that your son has opened up to you and has even told you what he has. That is quite amazing. Who is making him feel that way about himself? He is spending so much time with the same group of friends and this is the best they can do for him? Are they picking on him and bullying him too? You can’t say it to his face but you might right him a note, that if his friends are not making him feel good about himself after spending so much time with them, then maybe he should be looking for friends that do. After all, he changed himself to be just like them and to be accepted by them didn’t he? If they didn’t accept him the way he was, and still make fun of him the way he is, who needs them?

A friend is supposed to have your back and make you feel the best you could possibly feel about yourself. A friend is supposed to build your self-esteem and self-confidence.

Definitely agree aries! Unless there is a case where a teen genuinely feels unloved (like for example, in an emotionally abusive home), the best thing is to show them you really care- no matter how many times they seem to get annoyed by the attention.

The day you stop saying no is the day he assumes you stopped expecting any better from him.

WOW, your job is to keep doing YOUR part, his job is to keep doing his. His choices might change (I”YH) sooner hopefully than later, and he will mellow sooner than later, so his responses might change as well, but you are the parent, older and wiser, and you have to keep doing what YOU KNOW is the right thing to do. NO MATTER WHAT he does, you still love him. NO MATTER WHAT stupid things he says or does, you still love him, that doesn’t change. HE can always count on you, that is not going to change because you will always be his mother and he will always be your son. His friends will come and go, but the two of you will stay mother and son forever. That is the one constant he will always have in his life. When his nisayon is over and his friends are long gone, your relationship will have survived it all. So as he goes through his tests and he keeps testing you, don’t let the yetzer horah get you. Show your love and let it be known, no matter how many times you feel rejected (he is an immature kid), no matter how many times he says the wrong thing (he is an immature kid) no matter how many times it hurts (the yetzer horah is really good at his job!) you be better at your job! OK?

WOW, He yelled at your husband for embarrassing him? Did your husband bother to ask why a father “looking” at his son would be an embarrassment?

I dont think he cares what your community thinks, I know its sounds harsh, but its probably true.

I understand your pain, write or wrong. May Hashem give you the strength to continue and you should see much nachas.

WOW, no he can’t. He can’t see past his own pain. He is a kid, he is male, and he is in pain. Right there are the three strikes keeping him from thinking like you. You are an adult, you are a female, and you are more equipped and capable of handling and dealing with pain. He doesn’t think like you do, he is not mature like you are, nor can he rationalize or be logical like you can. His brain is not yet as developed as your is, nor has he had the life experience, knowledge, nor seichel that you posses. It is foolish to expect him to follow your expectations of him.

As parents we have these little scenarios go off in our brain. This is how we want and expect our children and even our spouses to behave. If we do this, their answer and response should be this. We are shocked, dismayed and extremely disappointed when they don’t follow the script exactly as written. But they are NOT dreaming or fantasizing the same dream nor scenario from the same perspective, need nor desire as WE see it. Their needs are different, their desires are different and they just plain don’t see things the way we do. Now add to that the issues of a child at risk, going OTD and in the midst of all that confusion and how can you expect him to follow your script? He is still getting used to the OTD and at risk script. He still doesn’t know where he is heading and what he will still experience. I know. You might know, but he doesn’t believe any of that will happen to him until it does.

Remember he told you that HE will not be one of those kids that take drugs. I knew it was inevitable, I knew he would follow that script. He is following a well traveled road. It is almost a by the book case. He is putting up a barrier where you are concerned and yet he is communicating with you. Like a pull me push you toy. I don’t want to talk to you, I am angry with you, you don’t love me, and yet I AM talking to you, I AM communicating with you, and I AM letting you talk to me even thought I am telling you that I don’t want you to talk to me.

WOW, he is telling you that he is taking drugs because he is angry at you. In all honesty I believe that YOU are right. He is angry at himself. He is probably realizing that HE has achrius in all of this and he could have made other choices for himself. He could have done something to stop it, but he wasn’t brave enough to stand up for himself. HE could have allowed YOU to help him at the time and let you switch schools for him like you offered, but he didn’t. It is easier for him to say that YOU don’t love him than for him to say that HE doesn’t love himself. He doesn’t want to say that he blames himself, it is much easier to say he blames you. But at this point maybe the best thing for you to do is to tell him in words and in notes that we can’t live in the past and we can’t allow the past to dictate to us how we choose to live in the present and in the future.

Even if we made mistakes in the past, we don’t have to allow those mistakes to follow us around for the rest of our lives and define who we are. We have the choice to learn from the mistakes that we made and choose to never make those same mistakes again. WE can choose to take a good harad look at our mistake and figure out what we could have done differently to bring about a different outcome and then actually learn how to do that other action. So if that means that we have to build our self esteem and self confidence so we don’t allow anyone ever to bully us again, then that is what we need to do. We don’t shrivel into ourselves and disappear. We build ourselves up, by recognizing the good qualities that we posses. We work on our skills by taking classes in areas such as Karate and body building as well as coaching and debating.

We use the brain Hashem gave us to outwit and outsmart anyone who would try to hurt us. We are each created in tzelem elokim and we each deserve to be treated with respect.

Wow, I grew up in a similar environment and went thru somewhat the same as your son.

I said earlier, I think that you have got to accept that he will not be frum for the time being and maybe never. At some point in the future, he may find he is missing Yiddishkeit and he can make his way back. I think your agony over this, is your problem and is possibly getting in the way of the next phase of his life which is getting into pre and adulthood, via either the Army, or becoming a sort of Yeshiva Bochur, University, or job training, marriage.

What I get here is your feelings are getting in the way of helping him.

I believe you should tell him that he doesn’t have to be frum. I see this as a core issue. I am speaking from personal exp. I was your son once.

WOW

How much time until the Army?

I suspect the army will straighten him out

To you WOW.

No. I’m not going to tell you any advice, direction, instruction. I’m the least qualified. Just a consoling thought.

One of the messages of Pesach Haggadah is the important piece of the arba’ah banim. Everyone belongs, and there’s a way for everyone. The correct tools are sometimes not readily at hand, it may take time, but the Torah had him, and how to approach him in mind. Do I know how to interpret its message? Of course not, as I wrote before, but seforim do deal with it, caring and kindhearted Gedolim and Manhigim can guide and steer you in the right direction.

One more point, I’ve heard in the name of a Godol, one who is into this field too. HaShem, the Yodeah Machshavos, the One Who knows what’s in a person’s innermost thoughts and conscious, and the Korei Hadoros Merosh, Who planned and effected generations and histories, is the one who brought this terrible OTD “phenomenon” into existence. We don’t know His cheshbonos, but it’s a modern “mageifa”, a plague not witnessed in any of the previous generations. So He certainly understands the nisyonos you and him are going through. No need to be extra, needlessly hard on yourselves.

Again, be strong, ??????, we’re all standing and rooting for you.

I am not poskinim here

But I do see the Sedar as a big problem comming up, Ive seen OTD people remark how they have “suffered” through a Sedar.

Perhaps this year maybe you can change your Sedar slightly. Maybe Speed up (and I mean SPEED UP) some parts and slow down others in order to get him to stay. Better to have a Speed Seder with him there and not complaining that any other option.

@Oh Shreck

“modern mageifah” Are you kidding me? The whole reason for the invention of “Charedi Judaisim” was the haskallah that brought all sorts of knowledge and ideas that freed people from certain constructs.

The Haskallah raged like a wildfire across “De Alter Heim” it is nothing compared to a bunch of teens acting like a bunch of teens by challenging authority.

The concept of Tzaar gidul banim is as old as time, not some modern magefa.

OK, I don’t want to hijack this important thread with these arguments, let me try a quickie (I really have to get back to my cleaning..)

1) a black hat and all other minor nuances of our religion have nothing to do with evolution or invention of the essence of Orthodox Judisiam. Just another flavor, another expression of service to our same Creator. No, nothing new at all. They all worshiped our one and only G-d.

2) I really don’t know what you want from the Chasam Sofer. So many other Torah giants in his day were all against haskalah. He invented NOTHING. Again, nothing was construed, innovated, originated. Last I know, the Rema was Orthodox. So was Rambam. Rashi too. Ravina and Rav Ashi. Again they may have said different piyutim than us, different minhagim, but they were all directed with a fundamental motivation – towards the service of G-d.