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Even if you find a good study Statistics don’t prove anything. Although they show trends they are in no ways definitive. And no, it does not matter how far he went off.
Keep davening!! If u want you can send the mods his name Ben your name to email it to me and I’ll daven for him- saying “daven for me and ill daven for you” rly works
Superme
You shouldn’t be so zealous with contacting with people on the Internet.
WOW, please understand that everyone and anyone would love to believe that they are experts in this field but more than anything they only think they are and are more concerned with showing off how much they don’t know than actually doing something about the situation.
What is the point of such an article, to give up on K’lal Yisroel? Does this show that this person has any bitachon and emunah in Hakadosh Baruch Hu? Does this person have any Ahavas Yisroel that they could even say such a thing? B’emet??? Who is in charge here?? Who runs the world the people this person spoke to??? Please, give me a break. There are no statistics on this subject because there can’t be. Every day the statistics change. Every day there is a new baal teshuva. Every day someone finds their way back home. Who is to say which one of Hashem’s children that one is. And who is to say which day that will be. That article is pure shtusim!! Please throw it away. That is only someone from the outside looking in. They know nothing. Ask Avi his own statistics, he can give you a better answer. I am quite sure that author never once spoke to him and asked him his success record.
Let me remind you WOW of one thing. Kids who go off the derech don’t do so over night and they don’t return over night. It is a process. Someone pushed them off and they have to find the right sheliach to show them the way back home. There is no time limit on doing teshuva, and there is no time limit on finding your way back home. As long as the door is open, they will know how to come home. Hashem doesn’t shut the door and parents shouldn’t either. Stop reading negative information, if you see it walk away from it. If you hear it walk away from it. Surround yourself with positive thoughts and positive energy. As I have said before, your son is going through his nisayon and you are going through your own. Your faith is being tested as much as your son’s is. Your husband is right.
How did you feel when you read this garbage. This was a personal attack on your emunah and bitachon! My reaction would be “How dare they? Who do they think they are printing such garbage? Don’t they know that it is Hashem above who rules the world? How dare they say that? Hashem is in charge and it is through my tefilos and his rachmonus that things will turn around. How foolish and stupid this person must be to say these things.”
So WOW, take chizuk from your husband, from Avi and from myself if you feel I am helping you, and don’t step into that nasty pool of negativity. OK?
That is very normal, write or wrong, to feel sad when you see kids from his class or pass by his old school. I can relate. We are only human. Just try not to let it get you down.
interjection- if your following my posts correctly i needed a number from the purpleone for a teen at risk/friend so mods werent letting it through so asked mods to email it and for write or wrong the mods can email me the “tehillem/davening name” i wasnt becoming in contact with anyone hear read CAREFULLY
write or wrong-
btw i daven 4 ur son every day n hashivenu and shma koleinu:)
Write or wrong- I dontplan on exchanging emails not at all!!!!!! I don’t just give my name or emailor anything out what I saidwas that if you post your sons name here to daven and if mods let it thru goodie not then askthe mods to just email me the davening name not yr name or email no!
Superme, please reread the Rules of the Coffee room. We do not facilitate email exchanges of any kind of information.
Purpleone- u have the tehillem name or davening name?
superme-
nope i just daven in my heart.. God knows who im talking abt..
That’s true………its better with a name but that’s true thanks
I really never post, but I want to share something with you, WOW, and everyone. I’ve been reading your saga since you began, and I have been very touched and pained watching you struggle, because I have some idea what you’re going through.
As last Purim approached, we continued to have serious trouble with one of our sons, had been for many years. At this point, he was not going to yeshiva for months (after many, many attempts) and was really terrorizing the family in a lot of ways. We had tried everything we could think of, to no avail.
When Purim came, we decided we wanted to tap into the unique power of this special day, so we sponsored some learning on Purim day, and I decided to say the entire sefer Tehillim over Purim. (I knew it would be a challenge, so I started on Taanis Esther.) On Purim afternoon, I was finishing up the sefer in an empty beis medrash, and I became very emotional. When I finished saying the Tehillim, I started asking Hashem, in my own words, to please help our son and our family. I started crying.
I don’t know what came over me, but I went up to the Aron, and opened it, and leaned in and started begging Hashem to help us. Then I insisted, demanded really, that since only He could help us, that He needed to do something! I have never cried and davened quite like that before, or since. I cried and begged until I was cried out, and I closed the Aron and went to my Purim Seudah.
I don’t know if this made any difference, but through a series of connections (very Purim story-like), we found an eitzah for him and he is now in a different Yeshiva and has had the longest string of success that he has ever had in his life.
Our challenge is far from over, but in my mind there is no doubt that Hashem has sent us a miracle. I know anyone still reading this can’t possibly appreciate the neis because I was very brief in explaining the background, but everyone who knows us and the challenges we’ve had knows this was a neis min hashamayim.
I can’t prove it one way or the other but in my heart I know it connected to the zchus of Purim. We’re sponsoring learning and I’ll be saying the whole sefer Tehillim again this year, that’s for sure.
We should all be zoche to see nisim.
I like your name
First time caller, thank you for sharing, may you see continued hatzlocha and brocha.
wow: I feel your pain…..May this Purim bring you all the miracles you are davening for.!!
first purim since my brother moved himself out… And no he won’t be joining us for the seuda, thanks. Sighhh 🙁
Whydidnt u call aish hatorah theres one in isreal also
I know a few people who went OTD and most of them seemed to celebrate Purim.
Dressing up, eating Hamentashem and getting drunk dont seem to be objectionable to them
WOW: still here and following your posts. Where do you think the “cause I want” comes from? Did that pre-date the approach of giving him everything he desires? If that approach is working well for you then please disregard my comment, but I have to wonder if it is really healthy for him. In any case, Purim and all the chagim and Yom Tov & Shabbosim are challenging. Sometimes it’s helpful when you daven to add all of those suffering with the same situation to your tefillas. I’m guessing there were many homes affected by this on Purim…Also just another reminder to tune in to the other children, Purim was different for them too, probably. Maybe take each one for a private discussion to let them talk about how they are managing the changes–not only does it help them articulate their pain but it shows you are still there as Mom, not completely absorbed by OTD.
Rite or wrong- no aish is for you to call up and ask them advice and ho they recommend
WOW, although it is surprising and shocking to us what they choose to participate in and connect to, it is just natural and normal to them. You would be surprised how many OTD non shomer Shabbos still fast on Tisha b’av. “Of course, why did you ask????” To them we are asking foolish questions so WE MuST learn to STOP asking these questions. Just take two deep breaths and hold back. It is better not to ask just watch, listen and learn. Amazing isn’t it that when we think they are so disconnected they are still connected in some ways. They really choose NOT to break all ties. And who are we to question that??? Why call them hypocrites when it was our own hypocritical frum JEWS that shoved them off the derech to begin with? They are kids who are challenged and confused. Lets appreciate that they didn’t completely turn their backs on our Chagim and traditions. Think about it. They could have chosen to just go to a club or party that had nothing to do with the chag! Better that they chooseto connect with other Jews. When they do so there is always a possibility that they will meet the right sheliach. Yes even at a chagigah.
So go ahead and prepare for Peasach and don’t be afraid to ask him for help. The worst that can happen is he says no. The best is he helps in some way and he feels productive. It sounds from your post that he went back to school.
Write or wrong- no I meant aish hatorah is for you to call and get advice on what to do and who they can recommend fOr help
Super it’s nice to see you can type actual words when you want to.
Oy that’s tuff so just call one of those numbers and see if they can help you and recommend someone
wow: Hashem should please give you the koach to withstand…….. until the light at the end of this long tunnel appears.
wow: You will, yeshias Hashem keherif ayin!
Maybe you can try calling or Skype some Kiruv guys from Lakewood.
A gitte voch everyone..
I’ve been following all along. just very busy.
besides for my older son whos been out of yeshiva, working, and having OTD tendencies, as explained a while back..
I got me another son who decided to quit yeshiva, he is very young, as well as being busy with all modern gadgets a frum boy or girl should not be busy with.
Hopefully soon we will have him in a different yeshiva where they will be makarev him.
I am afraid there is no such yeshiva. either one has the cheishek or he don’t..
Welcome to the “frum world” Write Or Wrong
Where you are guilty by association and having a son who is OTD is seen as something that is contagious.
It only gets worse from here. Might be time to rethink some things about the lifestyle.
Welcome to the “frum world” Write Or Wrong
OH how I hate when people think their daled amos is the frum world ARRRRGG.
WOW – I totally get your statement and have had those same thoughts in the recent months, but it’s time for you to stop subjecting yourself and family to this community of imaginary frumkeit. This is not how Jews behave and you deserve better. You deserve a community that supports you and your kids and doesn’t forget that there were two luchos. You are a wonderful parent and I wish you would buy the house down the block from us (but I would never encourage a move back to the States). There are places were you can be treated well, be a full fledged chareidi Jew and have good role models for your family living around you. Hugs to you til things improve, I wish I could make all your pain go away, and your son’s as well, but meanwhile just look the other way and remember, anyone who causes you pain is not on any derech that Hashem paved either.
WOW, did you call that RAV and ask him what the problem was. If he is NOT going to accept your son then you have nothing to lose anyway. But at least you can ask him point blank what the problem is. Ask him if his shita is to throw out the baby with the bathwater.
Dear Write or Wrong,
I am sorry to hear that your friends and neighbors are giving you looks and are making insensitive comments. I hope you have one or two close friends that are supportive to you, not just the coffee room.
As far as your second son applying to yeshiva, perhaps it would be best for him to go to a yeshiva that your older son was NOT in, so he could make a fresh start without living in the shadow of his older brother.
Continue to search for ways to be mechazaik yourself through this difficult tekufah! Be good to yourself. It is normal to go through ups and downs in our spirituality especially during tough times.
I hope you will share good news with us soon. hang in there!
write or wrong; Hashem never gives a person a Nisayon if the person can’t pass it, so obviously Hashem knows you can pass this dark alley, and soon, very soon you will see the light at the end!
Wow: about your second son, maybe he should go to another Yeshiva than what your first son went to, because the Rabeim will probably constantly be looking at your son to see if he does anything wrong, and when he does something wrong (do to the pressure), the punishment will probably be very harsh,(not fitting his actions he did).
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