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Wow, I am really sorry to hear that his identity until now was learning torah and wearing black and white clothing and now that he has shed this “identity” he has nothing else to fall back on, no developed skills, no developed talents, nothing. I guess he feels empty and has absolutely no reason to get out of bed these days. I dont blame him…That is a sad, sad situation to be in:( Perhaps you can send him to a kibbutz where he can learn to work the fields or perhaps learn how to fish or something similar to that. of course, I am assuming your answer will be that you want him to be religious and so going to a kibbutz is out of the question but I think for now you need to overlook religion (or find a religious kibbutz)and focus on his mental health. give him a real reason to wake up in the morning and working on a farm will def give him a good reason to do so. plus, it will keep him safe and away from the street people you seem to despise.
regardless of whether you take my advice or not, i think that your other children are in danger as well (even if it seems that they are doing ok right now, they may be faking it and waiting to see what happens with their older brother before becoming rebellious themselves). are they also too busy learning torah to take classes that will help them develop their skills and talents that Hashem gave them? what will you do if one of them starts acting out in the future? the least you could do, is give them a chance now, put them in karate classes or on sports teams or let them learn how to play an instrument etc. so they develop their self-esteem now instead of falling through the holes later.
The important thing to understand is to always show him love and NOT anger and aggravation. HE is going through what HE is going through which is separate from what YOU and YOUR husband are going through. HE has HIS pain and YOU and YOUR husband have YOUR pain. Each of you have to learn how to deal with your own individual pain in your own way without hurting each other more in the process. You can only be hurt if you allow yourselves to be hurt. You are in charge of your own happiness and if you pin your happiness on someone else, placing them in control of your happiness then you are setting yourself up for additional pain and sorrow. No one is in control of one’s happiness but themselves and anyone who allows someone else to control their happiness is either consciously or subconsciously handing over the control.
If one understands this then they can control how they react to another person’s “stimulus”. Things happen all around us, every single day, every minute of the day. How we “choose” to respond to any given action is in our own control. If we choose to react positively then we basically take positive control over our portion of the situation. If we choose to react negatively then we are taking a negative control over our portion of the situation. It is up to us which path we “choose” to take and where WE choose to take it.
For instance, if you see milk spilled all over the kitchen floor you can start yelling at the top of your lungs “WHO spilled the milk all over the kitchen floor?” but the milk will still be on the floor and you will only cause everyone to hide and take cover. However, if you choose to ask “who is going to do the mitzvah of helping me clean up all this milk that is spilled all over the kitchen floor?” the culprit might come out and help you and learn something from the experience.
By the same token if you react to your son in anger or pain when he comes home and starts yelling at you, you are “choosing” a negative response and it will only lead to another negative reaction from the both of you. Where will that lead you? Only more negative feelings will sprout from these actions. However, if you don’t allow the negative response to lead you……for instance…”Welcome home, there is some food in the kitchen if you are interested, please help yourself.” If he responds negatively you can just say “I see you are tired, not a problem” or “Whatever you choose” and leave it at that. If you get into an argument or respond with a smart remark, you will only have charatah and second guess yourself.
You can’t have charatah for showing love. There is never anything wrong with showing love. As for feeling that you didn’t show enough love, stop revisiting old stories and reliving the past. There is nothing you can do about what happened yesterday, why worry and keep concerning yourself about what happened five years ago. It is over and there is nothing to do about it. But there is something you can do about today and every minute from this point forward. Put a smile on your face and leave it there. Put your armor on and leave it there. Shield yourself from the remarks and the comments and remind yourself that it is NOT your son nor his neshoma that is saying these things. It is coming from his yetzer horah and his pain. The more you react to it, the more it will fuel the yetzer horah, the more you ignore and show the yetzer horah he can’t win with you, the faster it will stop!
The most important thing right now is to keep him safe and healthy. And for you both to remember that HE is your SON, your flesh and blood, no matter what. No matter if he is frum or not. No matter if he is Shomer Shabbos or not. He is still YOUR son, a gift from Hashem. That is what is important. YOU might not be his sheliach to bring him back to Yiddishkeit. It might NOT be your mitzva or not your zchus. Hashem might have picked someone else to have that mitzvah and have that zchus. We don’t know but what we DO know is that YOU ARE his parents. That is a given. That is a truth. That is the JOB Hashem did give you and that is the gift that he gave you, the gift of caring for and having the privilege of raising and loving this child. He did NOT come with warranties nor guarantees. Hashem blessed you with this neshoma and gave you the task to watch over him.
You had hopes and dreams for him. That is normal. In your dreams he follows a path, your path. HE chooses to go down a different path. He was given bechirah just like you and me. He has to make choices for himself. Of course it is our hopes and dreams that our children follow in our path. On the other hand, it is the choice of all the secular Jews that their children follow down their paths. They are just as heartbroken as WE are when their children do NOT follow in their paths and do not adhere to the very lessons that they themselves taught them. This is very normal. WE look upon them like they are poor souls, how dare they judge their children for making this choice? Well look at us, how dare we judge our children for making this choice???? Are we suffering their pain? Are we carrying their burden? Where is our true bitachon and emunah? Do we NOT understand this nisayon? Their nisayon? OUR nisayon?
Their job is to walk down their own path and to live through their own nisyonos so that they learn who they are, where they belong and why they belong there. Our job is to live through OUR nisyonos, learn who we are, where we belong and why we belong there. Hopefully we will all wind up in the same place. Hopefully, with our emunah and bitachon in Hashem, with our own avodah, tefillah, tzedaka, and hishtadlus we will succeed in our own nisayon and OUR prayers will be answered. Hopefully WE will understand this gift that Hashem gave us and appreciate it no matter what so that we love it so fiercely and with so much power that the love we have will become a shield that will guard them from harm and help them through their cold dark journey to the other side so they able to come out in the warmth and light of Hashem’s Torah and Mitzvos.
Wow, you said it right, Hashem is running the show. Hashem decided that your son should become one of those street people and you have to accept that. I know its hard but as you keep saying over and over again, there is nothing you can do about the situation. so just accept it and move on…
I read the first few pages, and the last, and I think I have a similar situation happening to me right now.
I started out in the best Cheder, (I can’t say which one do to privacy purposes,) and I got through it well. In 6th, 7th and 8th grade I was from the top students from the whole school. But when I got into Yeshiva, that’s when the problems started. (Actually, when I think back, it started before I got to Yeshiva, but the main thing started after I got into Yeshiva.) I got made fun from the older bocharim, (which later I found out that they were also going through something). The truth is that at first I tried to be friends with them so they would stop, but they wouldn’t let me in there “group”. Already in the first month of Yeshiva I got depressed. But the depression only occurred because I didn’t believe in myself, or in other words, I didn’t have confidence. I tried to hide it from everyone including my parent’s, but they found out towards the end of the year.
That was all of 9th grade. In 10th grade I won’t go to too much detail, but I got a hang out type of guy, and I was deeply depressed. So I started watching movies and started doing other things.
I did all of this because of that “friend”, and now he left my Yeshiva, and I don’t want to do those things anymore, but it is hard to stop it yourself, and I don’t want to ask anyone for help because I feel everyone has neglected me.
Back to your son, I think it has nothing to do with laziness, but total depression. rite now, the only thing I am looking for is genuine love from anyone, I already got fake love and it feels terrible. So I think you should show GENUINE love to your son, and only compliment him on the good things he does even if it a little thing, never criticize him for anything he does, because that will just make him go further away from you, and want to rebel. You can make a deal with him and offer him a pack of Cigarettes just to show him that you are not doing things because you hate him, but to help him. And by giving him illegal things he will gain trust in you. Or you can listen to some of his music like someone suggested before.
And about kicking him out of the house, will just make things worse! Once you kick him out, he will for sure go off the derech!!
Hatzlacha Rabboh!!
smc, I am sorry that you are going through that. i am not sure where you are located but if you are in Brooklyn then there are safe programs for individuals like you. you can try going to Our Place and speak to a counselor there. they can probably assist you in finding a therapist or anything else that you may need. I have also heard of Yeshiva Simchas Chaim but I am not sure if it is for you at this point.
Again, I am not sure where you are located but there is also a program called Priority 1 located in Cedarhurst, NY that may be able to help you.
Good Luck!
Wow, you seem to be in a lot of pain… have you ever considered therapy for yourself? meaning, seeing a therapist for the purpose of dealing with your pain rather than seeing a therapist for the purpose of helping your son. My guess is that there are deeper issues within yourself and/or your relationship with your husband that need to be dealt with…
Also, from what you are saying, it seems as your other children are traumatized by what is going on at home. have you considered therapy for them so that they can learn how to deal with their emotions in a healthy manner?
My guess would be that your entire family would benefit from therapy, perhaps you can find a family therapist and have him/her meet with your entire family(even if your 16 year old son will refuse to participate for now, you still have the rest of your family to worry about). you can try to find a therapist that is familiar with the Bowen Model or perhaps someone who specializes in Structural Family Therapy and see where that leads you…
Wow, have you ever heard of a program called, Crossroads Jerusalem? They have a “Street Art Outreach Program” that may help your son.
From their website—
Homeless and at-risk teens in Jerusalem are out on the streets, getting into trouble, becoming more and more isolated and have lost hope for a positive future.
What they need is someone to listen and care, who offers them a chance to express their feelings and fears, and is there to give support and information about a full range of services available. Our staff understands and is ready to help kids deal with their difficulties.
You can try to reach out to Crossroads staff to see if they would be willing to help your son (and his friends).
“How do I ‘not allow myself to feel hurt’, as you said? I don’t react angrily to him bc of the hurt, but I can’t erase the hurt.”
You remind yourself that it is NOT him speaking to you it is his “VERY SICK” Yetzer Horah, who has kidnapped your son for the time being. It is no different than any other choleh. A sick anorexic child who refuses to eat also has the yetzer horah controlling her or his actions to not eat. Could you understand that any easier? Your son is NOT being controlled right now by his pure and good neshoma, it has been taken over by his yetzer horah and the only way to fight evil is with goodness. Evil hates goodness, and the more you ignore its evil ways and actions and throw goodness back in its face it loses its power.
So when the anger and hurt is thrown like fire at you to burn you, you put up the shield and remind yourself “THIS is NOT my son speaking this is the Yetzer Horah trying to come between my son and me, trying to destroy our relationship so that he will be so ashamed to face me later. I will NOT allow that to happen.”
WOW, I didn’t say it was easy, I said it was necessary. I am here for you to be mechazek you every step of the way, as I am sure everyone here on this thread is willing to do for you.
“And as far as keeping him ‘safe and healthy’, he doesn’t let me. He almost NEVER eats anything I cook at home, only junk food.”
His job is to do what he chooses to do, YOUR job is to do what you know is best for him and that is to be the same mother to him as you are to the rest of the children. YOU keep him safe with YOUR tefilos with YOUR tears, with YOUR brachos, with YOUR kavanos, with YOUR bitachon and emunah and with YOUR love. That is YOUR job. YOU can only do what is humanly possible for you to do. YOU cannot make the choices for HIM, YOU can only make the choices for you. You can choose to go to Kever Rochel and cry for him, You can choose to go to the Maaras Hamachpeilah and daven for him. YOU can choose to go to the Kotel and put in a kvitel for him. YOU can choose to be mispalel from your sefer Tehillim to keep him safe.
As far as him going back to school, that is HIS responsibility and allow him to handle it his way. B”H, he is able to see some form of negative aspect on the part of his friends. B”H he can still distinguish between the good and bad in them and he doesn’t view them as faultless or blameless. This is a good sign but not one that you need to point out to him, it is quite enough that he can still recognize for himself. Keep the snacks handy for him to grab and go, maybe some breakfast bars or bottled coffee or choco. He will know that you had him in mind without talking about it. Things don’t necessarily have to be spoken out loud. It is OK to have an unspoken language between the two of you.
For instance, if you do choose to buy him the cigarettes even though you fear him getting addicted and it will affect his health, you can leave it in his room for him, maybe under his pillow in a bag, or in a tied bag on his bed (so his brothers won’t see it) with a note saying “this is for outside the house, I fear for your health therefore I don’t approve, but I recognize that it is important to you at this time”. This is what I would call an unspoken language. Personally I have a hard time giving cigarettes because I truly believe that is a gateway drug, but if you choose to do it, then that is a way that you can do it.
“Unfortunately, it only points to the painful fact that somehow, something is terribly wrong with how we are carrying over our yiddishkeit to the next generation.”
WOW, I so humbly agree with you.
write or wrong:
Actually Crossroads is in Yerushalayim. I used to go there back when they were just starting off. It’s right across from Kikar Tzion, which is likely around the area your son is spending his time, if you live near Yerushalayim.
From the look of their website, they’ve expanded quite a lot since I was there. It also looks like it is run by more frum people. I can’t really offer my experience of it, since it’s changed so much since then.
Depending on what your son is doing now though, there might be reason to worry that it will help your son network with more of the wrong (or worse) people though.
Wow, Crossroads Jerusalem is in Israel. they may be able to help you directly or refer you to organizations closer to your city.
also, just out of curiousity, why would you resist going to therapy yourself or taking your whole family to see a family therapist? is it possible that you have a negative association to therapy that your son is mirroring now with his refusal to see a therapist?
Thanks everyone for the advice.
Write or Wrong: You can ask a therapist what to do about the depression, and how to handle it. Do you show him you still love him no matter what?
WOW, just remember that you are not alone. You do have a support system. We are here for you, Hashem is right by your side and he is walking at the side of your son as well. Do not be afraid to ask for help. It is a wise person who knows how to ask and how to accept. It is that same person who will eventually be the one being asked and giving the help!
“”You can ask a therapist what to do about the depression, and how to handle it””
SMC, from what I have read, it seems as though her son has never been seen/diagnosed by a therapist so saying that he is suffering from depression is a self-diagnosis by someone who is obviously not educated in psychology and should not be diagnosing anyone especially her own son. Furthermore, I would hope that a therapist would insist on seeing/evaluating wow’s son prior to offering anyone advice on how to deal with any mental health issue.
WOW, you have a background in psychology? Awesome! I have a huge problem and need advice… Ok, its not really my problem but you see I have a friend who has a 16 year old son who decided that he was no longer interested in being frum. He used to be a great boy who learned torah all day long, I mean for 12 hours a day-can you believe that?!?! He used to wear a white shirt and black pants, go to minyan, keep shabbos and was very respectful to his parents and family. He got bullied in school sometimes and the RY was also someone who was very tough on the boys but my friend didnt really do anything about it because he was sitting and learning so she figured thats the only thing that mattered and everything else would somehow solve itself. Additionally, he was very musically and artistically inclined but he never did any extra-curricular activities because well, boys like him have to learn torah for 12 hours a day, what does he need anything else for? so basically, he was an excellent frum, yeshiva boy and my friend never had any problems with him.
That changed. first he did not want to go to yeshiva, then he wanted to wear jeans and t-shirt that nebbich the goyim wear:( he made new friends with some street kids who were apparently a bad influence on him because eventually he stopped coming home some nights and slept all day etc. then to make matters worse, he got a piercing. how embarrassing for my friend:( now he is disrespectful and angry, is on his computer all day (he bought himself a computer) and is basically doing whatever he wants.
my friend is at her wits end. she offered to send him to college, karate classes, sports, even low pressured yeshivas where they can wear whatever they want and learn part of the time and maybe do creative activities the rest of the day etc anything to get him to change his behavior and become frum again but to no avail. he does not want to do anything without his street friends and he certainly doesnt want to see a therapist.
my friend is hurt and broken while her husband is angry at the whole situation. she has other children that could probably need help but they are still very frum and learn torah (in fact, her 12 year old learns for 10 hours a day) and besides, they see how horrible the 16 year old is and how much pain he causes their parents so my friend decided that they definitely would not follow in his footsteps. so my friend thinks its ok for the other children to continue with their lives as is even though they are traumatized by the situation and refuses to put them into therapy or allow them to participate in extra-curricular activities.
anyway, to make a long story short, my friend has already spoken to a rav and a therapist on how to deal with the son (who she thinks is depressed but has never had him officially evauluated) but still nothing has changed, in fact things seem to be getting worse:( a lot of people have suggested so many things but she is not really receptive to anything (i personally think that she is in so much pain that she can’t really think straight anymore). she also lives in a very hareidi community and she is terrified that it will effect the shidduchim for her other children-if it hasnt already…
WOW, she desperately needs help, what do you suggest she do?
hi wow,
just something to think about-
theres a story in this weeks binah about a boy who went sorta otd and wanted to become a boxer. basically the atricle was saying how daas torah kept telling them to choose their battles. maybe on each “battle” u shud ask daas torah specifically about each matter and see if its worth fighting for or u shud fight for different things.
WOW, if you re-read my post very carefully you will find that I was not referring to you in any way, I was talking about a problem that a friend of mine has so yes, I am deeply hurt and offended that you would even think that I was referring to your situation and that you defended yourself rather than listening to what i was saying and offering advice as requested:( There are tons of families that are in similar situations that you are in but I asked you for advice since you already tried so many things and I figured you can tell me what actually works. Btw, if you would be the only one going through this then there would not be a need for all these organizations that exist solely to help at-risk teens.
I am Black But Beautiful!
Rebbe Nachman of Breslov has a Teaching (famously referred to as Azamra) regarding Judging people favourbly.
He says that if you judge someone favourbly, concentrating only on their good points rather than their bad ones, you can actually move them out of where they are holding now.
Is it possible that your son has never done anything good in his life. Has he not done mitzvos, learnt Torah, given charity, said good morning to you, worn a kappel, tsizzit, put on teffilin. Did he ever help you set the table for shabbos, made brochos etc.
You should spend some time every day thinking about how wonderful your son is.
An example given by Reb Noson of Breslov about this Teaching is that, The Children of Israel made the golden calf and worshipped it. But they also built the Mishkan. I am Black but Beautiful says King Solomon.
Your son is beautiful – go and examine his beauty!
WOW, yup, you got me… you are the only mother of an otd/at-risk 16 year old who has ever uttered any of those words or quotes as you call them. yup, you certainly have a background in psychology…
I used to wonder what the real problem is with so many individuals going otd but now I think I have a better idea of what is really going on..
Ana Mia is it really necessary to pick the scab off the wound? What is the point of this psych ping pong? The point of this post was to give chizuk to the op not to prove how smart or right we are or can be. I got the point of your post, it was sharp, unfortunately it was hurtful to the op so it wasn’t received in the manner that you had hoped. Instead of taking a step back and realizing that the op is not in a matzav to accept your style, you choose to be offended and fight for the right to be right. So be right. How does that help? Does it make you feel better that you are right? Does it help the op or her situation or how she handles her pain if you are right?
A shoemaker does not make the best pair of shoes for himself and a doctor should never try to heal himself. Throwing the situation back into the op’s face because she has a background in psychology is just plain counter productive. This whole exchange is counter productive . I don’t believe that it was your intention to take your conversation with the op down this path, so maybe it is time to step back and re-evaluate.
Ana Mia,
Do you have any idea of the pain you are causing WOW? C’mon at least admit the truth about your post. What are you gaining by trying to deny who you meant? Offer chizuk or sound advice or even just say we are here for you in spirit. Don’t throw blame. Thank Hashem that you are not in this situatuation.
Aries – well said and beautifully articulated. I am surprised, however, that you give her credit for being right when so much of her information was off. Well intended, I am sure, but only at first.
WOW – I give you a lot of credit for being able to answer everyones posts, deserving or not. My skin is not always so thick. Keep up the good work and Hashem should continue to give you strength.
Aries – and thank you, by the way, for the help you have given to me as well.
Wow, aries2756, Imma613, I was referring to a different situation as I keep saying over and over again. Syag Lchochma was nice enough to point out that the information I had was off– It was off because I was talking about someone else, someone who btw does not drink, smoke, or do drugs BH. so yes, while there may be some similarities there are also differences you just need to pay attention to it. aries2756 said, sometimes you need to take a step back and look at things from a different perspective which is exactly what I was hoping Wow would do but she couldnt get it past her that there are others who are going through the same thing as she is and that she is not the only one in this situation:( Her dismissive attitude made me wonder if this is how her son felt when he came to her with a problem. I am not blaming Wow for anything right now, I am simply explaining my view on this situation.
“”A shoemaker does not make the best pair of shoes for himself and a doctor should never try to heal himself””
Aries2756, I completely agree with you which is why I said that wow should find a therapist to help her deal with the pain she is in… (and along the same lines, a mother should not diagnose her own child especially a child who does not openly communicate with the mother)
And Wow, aries2756, imma613, and everyone else– yes, you have to dig a little deeper (even if it hurts) in order to fix the problem instead of just putting a band aid on it…
WOW, my point is this. If you are posting just for the accolades of feeling or being right, and you need to be right, and that will make you stop and consider however the negative effect your post is having rather than the positive one you intended, then I will tell you that you are right. Your original thought was well intended but maybe not thought out to the end of its path. Being right doesn’t necessarily make you happy nor solve the issue, it just gives you that gold star for being right.
So if this particular poster has a need to be right and she will continue the exchange until someone tells her that she is right, I will do it now and end the babble which will only lead to more pain.
I hope that you can recognize my intention here and not fault me for choosing sides. Please read my post again.
WOW, my point is this. If you are posting just for the accolades of feeling or being right, and you need to be right, and that will make you stop and consider however the negative effect your post is having rather than the positive one you intended, then I will tell you that you are right. Your original thought was well intended but maybe not thought out to the end of its path. Being right doesn’t necessarily make you happy nor solve the issue, it just gives you that gold star for being right.
So if this particular poster has a need to be right and she will continue the exchange until someone tells her that she is right, I will do it now and end the babble which will only lead to more pain.
I hope that you can recognize my intention here and not fault me for choosing sides which I did not. The only side here is to help you through this nisayon. Please read my post again.
Ana Mia, in your first post you said tat you had not read through the three or four months worth of 25 pages of posts before you joined this thread. Maybe it would have helped had you done just that. Coming in to this in the middle of the issues unaware what has already been discussed and tried only serves to aggravate the situation.
Judging the op for what you believe her obligations were or are, and asking questions that have already been asked and answered serves no purpose other than to stir a pot that others keep trying to keep from boiling over. I am sorry to say that it is you that needs to dig a little deeper and actually take the time to read through this thread from beginning to end to understand why your suggestions and posts are not being well received. Although your intentions my be in the right place your actions via comments are uncalled for.
If you want to learn something to give chizuk to your “friend”, I am sure that you will find something helpful among these 26 pages. If you are looking to give chizuk to the op, then please investigate and understand the whole picture before making a judgement call in the middle of the story.
I would imagine a number of people besides Ana Mia have noticed that the thread is problematic on many levels. Some, in fact, posted their doubts some months ago, while others kept their doubts to themselves. It is my opinion that moderators should have closed the discussion a long time ago.
Aries2756, My need was not to be right but to help wow. I have tried to respond but the mods have obviously not approved my post. if the mods are picking sides right now and not allowing for an honest conversation to take place then perhaps they should just close this thread since its been six months and the situation has gotten worse, not better. if all wow wants is chizuk and a pat in the back then perhaps its time for her to find a support group of parents who are going through this in her neighborhood.
Disclaimer: please note that i am not attempting to blame or offend wow (or anyone else) in any way for anything with this post but I am trying to help her understand that there are deeper things going on and that if she understands that then it would help her move forward…
Wow, according to you– your son didnt want to go to karate/music/art/etc lessons when he was younger and he didnt want to switch schools even though he was being bullied. In other words, your son was fully in control over his life and what he did or didnt do when he was say 6,8,10,12 etc. So now he is 16 and is once again taking control over his life just like he is used to doing and decided that he didnt want to be frum anymore. Why are you complaining? If it is true that you allowed him to make major life decisions at a younger age and never complained about it then you should do the same thing now and be happy and supportive of his decisions now.
Wow, I believe you mentioned that you have a sister who is not Haredi (yet you are haredi), correct? you also mentioned that you havent told your parents about your son being otd, right? If both of these things are true then I have a question for you. Did you become a bal teshuva at some point in your life and your parents fought against it but you still wanted to be frum so you went against their wishes and did what you wanted? Or did you grow up haredi and your sister rebelled against it and is no longer haredi today? If the first one is true and you became frum, then perhaps you feel embarrassed by it and have to “save face” now to your family (and friends, relative, community etc). If the latter is true however, and your sister went off the derech then it would mean that there is some sort of history in your family that you would have to look into.
and finally, wow, since you have a background in psychology then you know that you cant help anyone unless they want the help. It doesnt look like your son wants the help so there is nothing you can do for him. You can however help yourself by seeing a therapist and working through the pain you are experiencing but that is all you can do (besides for loving, supporting, and accepting your son for who he is but that you already know:). Remember, you need to uncover in order to recover…
I do have a suggestion for you if you are willing to try something more radical though which I think may be able to help you understand your son a little better but I am hesitant to share it with you since its a little out of the box. let me know if you are interested though and I will def share it with you.
This thread has served a purpose of giving chizuk to the op for six months of a devastating situation in her life. The posters have been able to help her through extremely painful situations by allowing her the opportunity to vent at any time, and giving their thoughts and ideas based on their true understanding of the subject matter and their various experiences in the parsha as well as their varied professional backgrounds.
For those who have tired of this thread or see no purpose in it, you have the option to not peak in and not engage in it. But to suggest that it be closed because it no longer serves your need, or serves your purpose is selfish. If the thread is still helpful and is serving the need of the OP and others who have come here for the same chizuk then it is worthy of the space it consumes. Please understand that she cannot get that same chizuk from those anonymous posters anywhere else. It is only here at the YW CR that this particular OP can find these particular shelichim to assist her and give her the chizuk she needs.
In case you haven’t noticed the OP did say that she has been in contact with therapists. However, please note that therapists don’t answer on the spot and are not available 24/7 or whenever someone here happens to notice that a question or request is posted. Help from a therapist is limited to the 45-50 minutes spent for that appointment and for the amount that is either covered by insurance or what the client/patient can afford to pay. In addition, there are many people who have gone through the same situation that have better insight than a therapist and no one should rely on one source alone when they are in so much pain and need so much chizuk. It is extremely difficult to just hold on to a week’s worth of pain and issues until your next appointment.
Having said that, please understand that neither I, nor any other poster here is against the OP seeing a therapist or receiving chizuk from any number of other sources, which she is doing. However, for as long as the YW, CR is willing to keep this thread going I am willing to give as much chizuk and support to this OP as I can and will do my best to help her through this nisayon. If anyone feels they can’t do it, then I am sure there is no hard feelings towards them, and they are welcome to either back out or take a break.
I have chosen on many occasion to NOT ENGAGE in other threads. It is a choice that I made for my own reasons that I won’t go in to. Everyone can make that choice for themselves. If you don’t feel comfortable here, or feel that you can’t help we understand that, but to suggest that this thread be closed is wrong on so many levels that I just won’t go into it.
“”Perhaps it is you who are/were off the derech, and have a lot of unresolved anger.””
Could be but if that is it true then it is you that could benefit from my experience/hindsight.
“”As far as my son making decisions for himself, he was not a little child at the time. He was much older, and when he refused to switch schools, he actually had a valid reason for wanting to stay. So we let him, but we gave him the option of changing his mind if he wanted to.””
thank you for agreeing with me…
“”You are so wrong on all fronts, that I don’t have the time to refute all your distorted conclusions””
could be but if you reread the post then you will find that I offered no conclusions, I merely suggested that there are other underlying issues that need to be looked at (based on what you have already stated previously) in order to resolve the situation at hand. I am sorry if I offended you, it was not my intention to do so:(
A general statement to people following this thread:
Please do not be quick to judge write or wrong, especially if you have not experienced a similar situation in your own family. This holds even if you have experienced a similar situation, because every situation is unique.
daniela: “It is my opinion that moderators should have closed the discussion a long time ago.”
Why is that?
“”Please do not be quick to judge write or wrong,””
Hudi, I have been following this thread but have not posted before. I agree with you that no one should judge write or wrong but I think that there are lots of holes to this story. These holes need to be filled in and asking appropriate questions to fill these holes (which ana mia is doing) will help write or wrong figure out what to do from here on forward as well as help everyone else understand what kind of advice they should (or shouldnt be giving).
And just an afterthought, if no one should be quick to judge write or wrong then write or wrong should also follow this advice and not judge anyone else-as she did with ana mia…
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